Galway traffic

what_traffic

wassie wrote: »

Economists call this 'induced demand'. A new road may provide motorists with some level of respite from congestion in the short term, but almost all of the benefit from the road will be lost due to increased demand in the longer term.

M50 in Ireland is a good case study of this.

what_traffic

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Step 1 in improving traffic issues in Galway is build the ring road, no ifs not buts that is what is needed. All the rest in pie in the sky stuff.

Both Galway Councils know that this is rubbish. They cannot wait and sit back till this "STEP 1" happens. It is a realistically a decade away if Ring Road ever gets built. They have it as part of there overall strategy, but its not STEP 1.

TII are starting to push them on making real changes on the public transport front for the City. The no's are poor for public transport usage but are better than Limerick City and Waterford City which both have "bypass" - that would be the induced demand raising its head in both City's since they were built.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Who told you that? They're pulling your leg.

I've been on it on a number of occasions, it travels far too slow between stops and on a number of stretches stops are too close together.

It takes it about 45 mins to get from red cow to Connolly a journey that takes about 20 mins in a car at off peak times, so why does the free flowing "luas" take so long to do it?

John_Rambo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I've been on it on a number of occasions, it travels far too slow between stops and on a number of stretches stops are too close together.

It takes it about 45 mins to get from red cow to Connolly a journey that takes about 20 mins in a car at off peak times, so why does the free flowing "luas" take so long to do it?

The car can't carry 408 people Nox. No car can.

donvito99

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I've been on it on a number of occasions, it travels far too slow between stops and on a number of stretches stops are too close together.

It takes it about 45 mins to get from red cow to Connolly a journey that takes about 20 mins in a car at off peak times, so why does the free flowing "luas" take so long to do it?

Let's stick everyone who currently uses public transport in Dublin in their own car and tell them to drive to Connolly, and then see how long it take you to drive in from the Red Cow.

donvito99

donvito99 wrote: »

Let's stick everyone who currently uses public transport in Dublin in their own car and tell them to drive to Connolly, and then see how long it take you to drive in from the Red Cow.

That wasn’t my point obviously. Something that has its own track and a free run at it should be covering the ground faster.

In fairness the name “Luas” is often joked about for this very reason.

Contrary to what some appear to think I’ve no issue with people using public transport, I even use it myself on occasion and I’ve no issue encouraging people to use it but it shouldn’t be pushed to the detriment of car users and many suggestions on this thread would do just that.

donvito99

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

That wasn’t my point obviously. Something that has its own track and a free run at it should be covering the ground faster.

In fairness the name “Luas” is often joked about for this very reason.

Contrary to what some appear to think I’ve no issue with people using public transport, I even use it myself on occasion and I’ve no issue encouraging people to use it but it should be pushed to the detriment of car users.

But it doesn't have a free run at it. It is impaired by the fact that it has to interact with traffic for almost all of its length, unlike the Green Line. Let's see you drive from Sandyford to Stephen's Green at rush hour and beat the tram.

ActionHank

It's grand to say that new bus routes and updated schedules will improve traffic congestion in the city, but lets be frank, do majority of people living in Knocknacarra and any other major estates in the west of Galway would be willing to get the bus? The city planners messed up on the accessibility front for too many new and old estates. For a lot of folks working in Ballybrit/Parkmore right now getting a bus would pretty much double their travelling time. There are quite a few estates from which it would take roughly 15 min to walk(rain) to get to the closest bus stop (usually not sheltered). We also have to consider that a lot of folks have kids, so part of their morning schedule involves school/creche drop offs before heading out to work. I do two drop offs myself and getting a bus in the current form would mean I would miss out completely on my family time. Improved bus schedules and routes will also not solve the problems for me and many of my friends. What we need in Galway and Ireland in general is for someone to finally START DOING SOMETHING, other than just talk, propose, plan and talk about it again... Many countries in Europe are lights ahead in terms of infrastructure and accessibility for their citizens and their continuously improve it.... we just like to talk about it. Parkmore has been a mess for over 20 years, connectivity between west and east of Galway has been disastrous. There's so many folks in Galway that still refers to quincentennial bridge as the "New Bridge" ( Built in 1984...) ... 36 years... and the list goes on...

Laviski

ActionHank wrote: »

It's grand to say that new bus routes and updated schedules will improve traffic congestion in the city, but lets be frank, do majority of people living in Knocknacarra and any other major estates in the west of Galway would be willing to get the bus? The city planners messed up on the accessibility front for too many new and old estates. For a lot of folks working in Ballybrit/Parkmore right now getting a bus would pretty much double their travelling time. There are quite a few estates from which it would take roughly 15 min to walk(rain) to get to the closest bus stop (usually not sheltered). We also have to consider that a lot of folks have kids, so part of their morning schedule involves school/creche drop offs before heading out to work. I do two drop offs myself and getting a bus in the current form would mean I would miss out completely on my family time. Improved bus schedules and routes will also not solve the problems for me and many of my friends. What we need in Galway and Ireland in general is for someone to finally START DOING SOMETHING, other than just talk, propose, plan and talk about it again... Many countries in Europe are lights ahead in terms of infrastructure and accessibility for their citizens and their continuously improve it.... we just like to talk about it. Parkmore has been a mess for over 20 years, connectivity between west and east of Galway has been disastrous. There's so many folks in Galway that still refers to quincentennial bridge as the "New Bridge" ( Built in 1984...) ... 36 years... and the list goes on...

notreadingthatwithabargepolelearntoparagraphthanawalloftextitsuglyhtoreadaswhati'mdoingnowthx

Thelonious Monk

This thread is gas. Nox I think is representative of your average Irish person, I genuinely think people prefer to sit in traffic for ages instead of taking PT or cycling etc in Ireland. It's like America that way.
Let's face it - the ring road will be given the go ahead sooner or later, and at best we might see a few one way streets or improved bus services in Galway. But the car is king in Ireland and I can't see it changing in my lifetime, especially outside of Dublin.

yer man!

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

This thread is gas. Nox I think is representative of your average Irish person, I genuinely think people prefer to sit in traffic for ages instead of taking PT or cycling etc in Ireland. It's like America that way.
Let's face it - the ring road will be given the go ahead sooner or later, and at best we might see a few one way streets or improved bus services in Galway. But the car is king in Ireland and I can't see it changing in my lifestyle, especially outside of Dublin.

I would agree with this, I think the ring road will get the go ahead but it's absolutely essential it goes hand in hand with using far more city road space for public transportation. That way you could possibly make both camps happy and get a lot closer to a functioning public transportation infrastructure.

Thelonious Monk

yer man! wrote: »

I would agree with this, I think the ring road will get the go ahead but it's absolutely essential it goes hand in hand with using far more city road space for public transportation. That way you could possibly make both camps happy and get a lot closer to a functioning public transportation infrastructure.

I don't think it can happen in Galway. There just isn't enough time between elections and anything that can seriously change things would mean upsetting some people and that is enough for projects not to go ahead in Ireland.
I'd say most of Galway want the ring road but lots of vocal people would oppose thins like Bus Connects or anything that took some of their gardens or GAA grounds or whatever.
This is how we roll in Ireland, we don't do infrastructure, apart from motorways of course.

Wombatman

Don't have much time for Noel but at least it's an option....

The Galway West candidate announced that he has secured the agreement of one landowner to provide land so that a new road could be built running up to Parkmore from the Monivea Road, while another landowner has agreed for another road to be built between Parkmore and the Tuam Road, near the entrance to Roadstone. A third landowner is apparently willing to part with land to widen the existing Parkmore Road and install an extra lane.

“This could take thousands of cars off the current approaches to Parkmore, where up to 10,000 people commute to and from work every day.

https://connachttribune.ie/plans-to-ease-parkmore-congestion-hit-the-skids/

gally74

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

This thread is gas. Nox I think is representative of your average Irish person, I genuinely think people prefer to sit in traffic for ages instead of taking PT or cycling etc in Ireland. It's like America that way.
Let's face it - the ring road will be given the go ahead sooner or later, and at best we might see a few one way streets or improved bus services in Galway. But the car is king in Ireland and I can't see it changing in my lifetime, especially outside of Dublin.

All the ring road will do is just create more traffic jams trying to get off it like the m 6 at the moment.

It wont help the middle of galway, or help ballybrit or park more, it will just get folks their earlier.

zell12

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't think it can happen in Galway. There just isn't enough time between elections and anything that can seriously change things would mean upsetting some people and that is enough for projects not to go ahead in Ireland.
I'd say most of Galway want the ring road but lots of vocal people would oppose thins like Bus Connects or anything that took some of their gardens or GAA grounds or whatever.
This is how we roll in Ireland, we don't do infrastructure, apart from motorways of course.

what_traffic

Wombatman wrote: »

Don't have much time for Noel but at least it's an option....



https://connachttribune.ie/plans-to-ease-parkmore-congestion-hit-the-skids/

How long has he been a TD already? Constituency Office in Briarhill Business Park no less.

gally74

gally74 wrote: »

All the ring road will do is just create more traffic jams trying to get off it like the m 6 at the moment.

It wont help the middle of galway, or help ballybrit or park more, it will just get folks their earlier.

That’s not going to be the case, the ring road will enable parkmore have it’s own high volume entrance and even more important exit (as the evening appears worse than the morning) onto a motorway directly.

This will take a large amount of the traffic that currently back up on the motorway away from that roundabout and in turn away from briar hill leaving the cars that need to go that way have much less traffic to get though.

A well planned entrance and free flowing exit from parkmore onto a motorway will make a phenomenal difference. Instead of going down to a T junction on a busy tuam or through a terrible junction on the airport road leading directly to anotjer congested and backed up junction at briarhill you are straight out of your car park and onto a motorway where traffic will not backup as it can shoot straight away at high speed. You could be home in your house in Athlone (for example) nearly as quick as you would be through briarhill lights on current bad days.

Jazmin Harsh Gold

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

That’s not going to be the case, the ring road will enable parkmore have it’s own high volume entrance and even more important exit (as the evening appears worse than the morning) onto a motorway directly.

This will take a large amount of the traffic that currently back up on the motorway away from that roundabout and in turn away from briar hill leaving the cars that need to go that way have much less traffic to get though.

A well planned entrance and free flowing exit from parkmore onto a motorway will make a phenomenal difference. Instead of going down to a T junction on a busy tuam or through a terrible junction on the airport road leading directly to anotjer congested and backed up junction at briarhill you are straight out of your car park and onto a motorway where traffic will not backup as it can shoot straight away at high speed . You could be home in your house in Athlone (for example) nearly as quick as you would be through briarhill lights on current bad days.

You really, really need to take a closer look at that junction.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You really, really need to take a closer look at that junction.

The junction doesn’t exist yet.

grbear

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I've been on it on a number of occasions, it travels far too slow between stops and on a number of stretches stops are too close together.

It takes it about 45 mins to get from red cow to Connolly a journey that takes about 20 mins in a car at off peak times, so why does the free flowing "luas" take so long to do it?

A quick check on Google maps for a journey at 0800 suggests the journey on Luas takes 35 minutes while the car is listed as 45 minutes with the quickest route being listed as taking anything between 28 minutes and 1hour 15 minutes.
A journey at 2000 is listed as 36 minutes for the Luas with the car listed at 28 minutes with the recommended route listed as taking between 20 and 45 minutes.

xckjoo

ActionHank wrote: »

It's grand to say that new bus routes and updated schedules will improve traffic congestion in the city, but lets be frank, do majority of people living in Knocknacarra and any other major estates in the west of Galway would be willing to get the bus? The city planners messed up on the accessibility front for too many new and old estates. For a lot of folks working in Ballybrit/Parkmore right now getting a bus would pretty much double their travelling time. There are quite a few estates from which it would take roughly 15 min to walk(rain) to get to the closest bus stop (usually not sheltered). We also have to consider that a lot of folks have kids, so part of their morning schedule involves school/creche drop offs before heading out to work. I do two drop offs myself and getting a bus in the current form would mean I would miss out completely on my family time. Improved bus schedules and routes will also not solve the problems for me and many of my friends. What we need in Galway and Ireland in general is for someone to finally START DOING SOMETHING, other than just talk, propose, plan and talk about it again... Many countries in Europe are lights ahead in terms of infrastructure and accessibility for their citizens and their continuously improve it.... we just like to talk about it. Parkmore has been a mess for over 20 years, connectivity between west and east of Galway has been disastrous. There's so many folks in Galway that still refers to quincentennial bridge as the "New Bridge" ( Built in 1984...) ... 36 years... and the list goes on...

I agree that schedules and routes won't fix things alone. They need to add dedicated bus lanes too. It should be faster to take the bus at peak times than it would be to drive. Otherwise people won't use it (understandably). The bus would also allow you more time with your kids. I see plenty of creche an school drop-offs on the bus in the morning and the kids and parents are generally much happier looking than the miserable faces you see in cars (that would be an interesting research project for someone to do). You actually get to sit and talk to them face-to-face instead of sitting staring straight-ahead. When they're older you can let them take it themselves to get to school. Bus shelters is another good point though. Nobody wants to stand in the rain for a bus that doesn't come on time.

Jazmin Harsh Gold

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

The junction doesn’t exist yet.

Hope you're proud of that one

The drawings for the junction, obviously

Foxx92

Is something like this completely unthinkable or am I just being optimistic?
People that can work remotely should be encouraged and or rewarded to work in hubs in villages that would eliminate a lot of unneccessary traffic. It would bring money back into villages and would be more of a hot desk situation so the usual problems of working from home ie isolation etc would not be a problem.
People that have to be in a workplace that are coming from the countryside would leave their cars at hubs in towns/villages 20 or so km from the city and would swap 52 cars for 1 bus at a time. These routes should be prioritesd for buses obviously. This should be greatly subsidised.
Inner city travel should be only taken up by bus. To make this possible bus lanes on the major routes, plus satelite routes to get from knocnacarra to parkmore for example. Cars pay a premium price to be allowed to use roads in the city. This comes in either the form of congestion charge or complete deprioritization of cars in the traffic management.
Down the line we could manage commuter train lines in all directions and an innercity tram line.
All this could be done for the price of the bypass as the majority of the cost is in replanning roads and establishing hubs which would not be overly expensive.
Or we could build the bypass and have this conversation in 5 years again.

Just as an aside this 1000 car free(or less cars) home idea is excellent. Im hearing people complaining of the traffice it will cause. It is exaclty the kind of thing we need in Galway

machaseh

Foxx92 wrote: »

Is something like this completely unthinkable or am I just being optimistic?
People that can work remotely should be encouraged and or rewarded to work in hubs in villages that would eliminate a lot of unneccessary traffic. It would bring money back into villages and would be more of a hot desk situation so the usual problems of working from home ie isolation etc would not be a problem.
People that have to be in a workplace that are coming from the countryside would leave their cars at hubs in towns/villages 20 or so km from the city and would swap 52 cars for 1 bus at a time. These routes should be prioritesd for buses obviously. This should be greatly subsidised.
Inner city travel should be only taken up by bus. To make this possible bus lanes on the major routes, plus satelite routes to get from knocnacarra to parkmore for example. Cars pay a premium price to be allowed to use roads in the city. This comes in either the form of congestion charge or complete deprioritization of cars in the traffic management.
Down the line we could manage commuter train lines in all directions and an innercity tram line.
All this could be done for the price of the bypass as the majority of the cost is in replanning roads and establishing hubs which would not be overly expensive.
Or we could build the bypass and have this conversation in 5 years again.

Just as an aside this 1000 car free(or less cars) home idea is excellent. Im hearing people complaining of the traffice it will cause. It is exaclty the kind of thing we need in Galway

This sounds a bit TOO exagerrated.

Just start with an inner city LUAS , even if it were only one single line that would already alleviate a lot of the issues. Make Park and Rides at either side near major roads, and make parking free there.

I tried to make an image there but it doesnt seem to be attaching. It could be something like this.

A luas can carry far more people than a road congested with cars, so some roads will have to become one-way for cars or will become luas only with only local access for cars.

https://imgur.com/a/BjRT3lP

JCX BXC

There's no need for these massive exaggerated plans, when much simpler trials can be put in place. Any movement on that plan to make college road bus/local traffic only?

How about trialling a Knocknacarra to Parkmore bus route over the Quincentenary?

These aren't new ideas, they've been said here hundreds of times before, but this talk of spending billions on a GLUAS and charging a fortune to enter the city is very premature.

topcat77

There are a few certainties in the future.

1. The cost of running a car will greatly increase. (Insurance, fuel (fossil), tax and congestion fees).
2. The traffic will increase.
3. Communing times in cars will increase.
4. There will be more bike, bus lanes.
5. There will be better public transport. (can't be worse than it is currently)
6. There will be a City centre zone with no through traffic.
7. less space dedicated to the storage of personal property. (Car parking spaces)

People will not agree with the changes but you'll not be able to stop them. It's up to us how we will deal with it and adapt.

Thelonious Monk

Actually can someone tell me how bad the traffic will be at the end of the M6 where you turn off to go up towards Cong? I'm going to Cong Friday afternoon from Dublin. Does the awful traffic get out as far as where I'd turn for Cong? I think it's the N6 at that stage.

Webbs

Maybe with a few tweaks the system that they operate in Ghent coul dbe adopted in Galway particularly if and when the ring road is constructed. In that city Ghent's traffic circulation plan bars motor vehicles from travelling between zones – instead, drivers must go out to the ring road and then back in.
Motorists there have since found that, while their journeys are longer in distance, they take less time because there are fewer fellow travellers on the roads. Motor vehicles used to make up 55% of trips in Ghent – that number has now fallen to 27%.
Ghent’s plan had imagined a cycling modal share of 35% by 2030, up from 22% in 2016. Instead, after an explosive 60% rise in cycle use, the target was reached last year, 13 years earlier than planned for.
Another advantage of the intervention is that it is remarkably cheap to implement; Ghent’s plan cost just €4m (£3.4m) to implement. By comparison it costs an estimated £20m-£30m to build just one mile of motorway in the UK.

Space Dog

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Actually can someone tell me how bad the traffic will be at the end of the M6 where you turn off to go up towards Cong? I'm going to Cong Friday afternoon from Dublin. Does the awful traffic get out as far as where I'd turn for Cong? I think it's the N6 at that stage.

Wouldn't you be better off taking the exit for the M17 from the M6 and head towards Tuam/Sligo and then to Cong via Belclare and Headford? You would avoid city traffic completely that way...

zell12

Agree, avoid Galway on Friday afternoon