Galway traffic

Mrs OBumble

Ruhanna wrote: »

Bus passengers pay as much tax as the average citizen, then pay their fare as normal.

Ahh, no they don't.

People using the bus are far more likely to be from lower socio-economic groups, who, thanks to this country's uber-progressive tax system, pay very little tax indeed.

It has improved somewhat in recent years (cf my earlier comments about catching the bus in 2010, when it was me, the foreign call-centre folks and the disabled guys), but you'll see very few managers on the bus in Ireland. And the engineer types who understand the environmental cost of private cars tend to switch to bicycles rather than shared vehicles.

Car users may not be paying for the the cost of their mode of travel directly, but they are paying for it through general taxation.

donvito99

donvito99 wrote: »

Motorists don't even pay for road maintenance, let alone pollution, congestion etc.

Of course they do, they pay for far more than they actually receive in return.

John_Rambo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Of course they do, they pay for far more than they actually receive in return.

Again... Who told you that?

In 2008 motor tax receipts were circa €1.1 billion and this was subsidised by circa €500 million or 30% by the exchequer. And now, in 2020, we're still improving our motorway network on the taxpayers bill.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Again... Who told you that?

In 2008 motor tax receipts were circa €1.1 billion and this was subsidised by circa €500 million or 30% by the exchequer. And now, in 2020, we're still improving our motorway network on the taxpayers bill.

Motor tax is only one small part of what car owner and driver contributes.

Jazmin Harsh Gold

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Motor tax is only one small part of what car owner and driver contributes.

No such thing

Ashleigh1986

I see the " 2020" organisers have announced no " buggies " allowed down at the swamp for the big launch .
City center bus drivers will be delighted with that news .
The long term forecast for Saturday is dreadful , so wouldn't be surprised if it's abandoned .
Organisers has said it would if weather was bad and wouldn't be rescheduled .

ben.schlomo

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

I see the " 2020" organisers have announced no " buggies " allowed down at the swamp for the big launch .
City center bus drivers will be delighted with that news .
The long term forecast for Saturday is dreadful , so wouldn't be surprised if it's abandoned .
Organisers has said it would if weather was bad and wouldn't be rescheduled .

Can you not keep your incessant whining about 2020 to one thread?

zell12

Is there anything positive about Galway traffic?

This beautiful Sunday morning for instance, motorists are free to barrage along fairly quiet roads at excessive speed whilst staring at a phone held with one hand above knee.

Ashleigh1986

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Can you not keep your incessant whining about 2020 to one thread?

.... So you beleive a launch of the " 2020" held down in the swamp especially in bad weather will have no effect on traffic ???
is this not a traffic forum ??
Does galway having events especially in the city center not have an effect on traffic ??
Lets just bury our heads in the sand and hope the traffic sorts itself out .
Because one thinks for sure galway city council hasn't the ability to do it !!!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

No such thing

Must be a scam website I’ve been paying so much money to all these years so...

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

.... So you beleive a launch of the " 2020" held down in the swamp especially in bad weather will have no effect on traffic ???
is this not a traffic forum ??
Does galway having events especially in the city center not have an effect on traffic ??
Lets just bury our heads in the sand and hope the traffic sorts itself out .
Because one thinks for sure galway city council hasn't the ability to do it !!!

There is nothing wrong with causing traffic for events like this, they are important events for the whole county/country, traffic is going to happen. Maybe it’s just not going to make you much money compared to other things that cause traffic like the races (which I live by the way not giving out about them). I was looking forward to heading along to this myself so it’s disappointing if the weather isn’t great and even worse if it’s cancelled and for the knock on effect to businesses etc.

AndrewJRenko

Discodog wrote: »

Same old, same old.........assuptions :rolleyes:

I have no choice but to drive.

Jams are caused by authorities providing insufficient space for traffic.

There isn't sufficient space on the planet for traffic. It's a bit more than 'the authorities'.

Discodog wrote: »

Good old extremist approach. Force them off the road without providing any alternatives. Good luck knocking on doors with that one.

How about making bus passengers pay the full cost of their bus ride ? Why should people that never use them have to pay for others to use them ?

You're right about the political popularity, but that doesn't make it wrong.



Bus passengers are using shared public transport, in case you missed the key difference.

Ruhanna wrote: »

Wear and tear on roads is a good one to include, since the impact on the road surface goes up exponentially with vehicle weight.

The wear and tear is based on the fourth power of the weight on the rear axle. A €50 annual fee for cyclists would work out somewhere around €1.4 million annual fee for the average family car. Bring it on.

JCX BXC wrote: »

Well, I'm not sure you need numbers to figure out a bus lane with a once ever half hour bus is going to be a hell of alot less efficient than if it was a car lane.

When you get all the cars out of the way, you can put on reliable services, a lot more frequent than once every thirty minutes.

AndrewJRenko

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

They already pay for all this and more and do not get even close what they should In return.

You are getting very close to the flat earther level of nonsense of the person who liked your post and that’s not good for you

When are motorists going to start paying for all that free storage space in the suburbs that they use? When are they going to start paying for their share of the 1600 premature deaths each year due poor air quality?

Ashleigh1986

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Must be a scam website I’ve been paying so much money to all these years so...

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/



There is nothing wrong with causing traffic for events like this, they are important events for the whole county/country, traffic is going to happen. Maybe it’s just not going to make you much money compared to other things that cause traffic like the races (which I live by the way not giving out about them). I was looking forward to heading along to this myself so it’s disappointing if the weather isn’t great and even worse if it’s cancelled and for the knock on effect to businesses etc.

.... Would you beleive I don work when there's an event on in galway city like this or in pearse stadium .
Not worth the stress .

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

When are motorists going to start paying for all that free storage space in the suburbs that they use? When are they going to start paying for their share of the 1600 premature deaths each year due poor air quality?

They pay for their “storage” when they buy their house it’s obvious for off street parking but they also pay for the on street parking which is part of the cost of buying their house, unless you think developers are a charity and just give away road ways and green areas for free.

As for the second point, totally baseless and no way to prove cars are causing any of this. Even if they were why should they pay over the million other causes of deaths that don’t pay towards them.

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

.... Would you beleive I don work when there's an event on in galway city like this or in pearse stadium .
Not worth the stress .

Strange, I’d be working 24/7 when these things are happening and there is lots of money to be made. I know one or two drivers and the likes of race week makes up for all the quiet times in just one week.

Jazmin Harsh Gold

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Must be a scam website I’ve been paying so much money to all these years so...

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/
.

My bad, so used to the "road tax" argument

donvito99

So nobody using the bus, walking or cycling pays motor tax?

AndrewJRenko

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

They pay for their “storage” when they buy their house it’s obvious for off street parking but they also pay for the on street parking which is part of the cost of buying their house, unless you think developers are a charity and just give away road ways and green areas for free.

Eh no, they don't. When they buy their house, they buy their house. They don't buy the street outside their house. It's not their land, for storage or any other purpose. It is public land. When it is widely used by motorists for storage, it is yet another public subsidy of motorists and motoring.

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

As for the second point, totally baseless and no way to prove cars are causing any of this. Even if they were why should they pay over the million other causes of deaths that don’t pay towards them.

You seem to have missed several decades of research showing the harm arising from the engine emissions, tyre particle dust and brake pad dust of motor vehicles.


Why should they pay? Because they are killing people prematurely. Is that not a good enough reason?

JCX BXC

Absolute hyperbole.

AndrewJRenko

JCX BXC wrote: »

Absolute hyperbole.

Yes, it is.

Mrs OBumble

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Eh no, they don't. When they buy their house, they buy their house. They don't buy the street outside their house. It's not their land, for storage or any other purpose. It is public land.

In most new estates, that is not the case.

That's why management companies need public liability insurance.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Eh no, they don't. When they buy their house, they buy their house. They don't buy the street outside their house. It's not their land, for storage or any other purpose. It is public land. When it is widely used by motorists for storage, it is yet another public subsidy of motorists and motoring.

Aside from a council estate they most certainly do pay. Developer buys land, builds houses and roads etc. Developer sells houses at a price to make a profit so this will include land purchase and all works on roads etc so house purchase contributes to all associated works. At a later date the estate may be taken in charge by the council but this changes nothing about the fact that the roads were paid for by the people who bought the houses.

Ruhanna

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

They already pay for all this and more and do not get even close what they should In return.

That's a tired old argument that doesn't add up to scrutiny.

What's the evidence that motorists pay for all the external costs of using private cars: CO2 and other harmful gases, particulates, microplastics, fossil fuel subsidies, road construction, road maintenance, sprawl, congestion, road deaths, road injuries, traffic noise, health impacts and so on and on?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/air-quality-link-to-178-deaths-in-belfast-in-single-year-38896955.html

Ruhanna

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

People using the bus are far more likely to be from lower socio-economic groups, who, thanks to this country's uber-progressive tax system, pay very little tax indeed.

Car users may not be paying for the the cost of their mode of travel directly, but they are paying for it through general taxation.

The point is that almost all of us pay tax one way or another. Those taxes are used to run the State and provide services. Motorists are not a special group tax-wise.

In any case, if car users want to avoid paying what they might perceive as 'extra' taxes, they can take the bus and pocket the difference.

What is the evidence that motorists pay for all the external costs of private car use?

Ruhanna

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Of course they do, they pay for far more than they actually receive in return.

Evidence, dear nox.

Ruhanna

Ruhanna wrote: »

Evidence, dear nox.

Where is the evidence they don’t? What about all those employed in the motor industry and the income tax they pay, the vat they pay etc? The vrt and vat on buying cars and car parts? Motor tax, vat and excise on fuel, vat on tolls (for roads long paid off, another disgrace tolls are). The list goes on and on.

cooperguy

Ruhanna wrote: »

What is the evidence that (a) converting general traffic lanes to bus lanes reduces the people-carrying capacity of a road, and (b) that modal switch in such circumstances provides less people-transporting capacity than the status quo?

Numbers please.

I mean sure, in a purely theoretical sense, you can fill the lanes with more bus seats than car seats. But that ignores all practicality. You need to have enough bus seats going to the right places in the city, suburbs and countryside at the right times.

What is your proposed network that would take half the cars off the roads in the short term? Commuting is on a knife edge, a crash in the city or a novena, grinds the city to a halt.

Im happy to hear the numbers for buses, bus routes and frequencies you feel would be practical to be brought in to make it possible to support removing 50% of the car capacity on one of the main roads that crosses the city.

cooperguy

cooperguy wrote: »

I mean sure, in a purely theoretical sense, you can fill the lanes with more bus seats than car seats. But that ignores all practicality. You need to have enough bus seats going to the right places in the city, suburbs and countryside at the right times.

What is your proposed network that would take half the cars off the roads in the short term? Commuting is on a knife edge, a crash in the city or a novena, grinds the city to a halt.

Im happy to hear the numbers for buses, bus routes and frequencies you feel would be practical to be brought in to make it possible to support removing 50% of the car capacity on one of the main roads that crosses the city.

You also have to remember that 50% of the cities workforce commute into the city from outside it and for the vast majority of those driving will be the only practical way of getting to work.

Wompa1

Heard a really interesting bit on the David McWilliams podcast about investors buying up land along major road developments and the LUAS as they were being built with a view to putting a high rent on it when the projects completed and selling it on for a huge profit. Profiteering off developments that were paid for from the public coffers. Makes a compelling case for rent control in those areas or possibly carrot and stick with regulations and taxes.

cooperguy

Wompa1 wrote: »

Heard a really interesting bit on the David McWilliams podcast about investors buying up land along major road developments and the LUAS as they were being built with a view to putting a high rent on it when the projects completed and selling it on for a huge profit. Profiteering off developments that were paid for from the public coffers. Makes a compelling case for rent control in those areas or possibly carrot and stick with regulations and taxes.

Its a compelling argument for property taxes, properly implemented.

AndrewJRenko

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Aside from a council estate they most certainly do pay. Developer buys land, builds houses and roads etc. Developer sells houses at a price to make a profit so this will include land purchase and all works on roads etc so house purchase contributes to all associated works. At a later date the estate may be taken in charge by the council but this changes nothing about the fact that the roads were paid for by the people who bought the houses.

No-one pays for street parking outside their house. Suburban roads aren't designed for parking, which is why we have weekly tweets from DFB begging selfish drivers to not contribute to the deaths of their neighbours through their parking.



So yeah, yet another free subsidy to motorists.



https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1224048191953391617
https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/895373609480355840
https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1216028636534493185