Galway traffic

AndrewJRenko

pure.conya wrote: »

i answered you already, you just quoted the answer, or do you not want to see it?

Quote: pure.conya
what does is matter? but I will engage you, half the roscam to eyre sq route would be bus lane and in that bus lane the bus is being heavily restricted from travelling at its max pace, because cyclists refuse to mount an empty footpath and allow the buses to get a lot of people into town as quickly as possible

No, you haven't answered it. You've given about one-third of the answer. So let's clarify;


For the other half of the journey, where there is no bus lane, is the bus held up by car traffic for most/all of that journey?


For the half of the journey that is on the bus lane, what do you mean by 'heavily restricted'? How much of that half of the journey is the bus held up by cyclists for?


For the half of the journey that is on the bus lane, how much of that journey is the bus held up by motorists illegally in the bus lane for?

cooperguy

Ruhanna wrote: »

What you said was that "50% of the city's workforce commute into the city from outside it."

Obviously the other 50% of the city's workforce is commuting through the city to work.

Neither half is bypassing the city.

Neither will the road. There is an exit directly into Parkmore industrial estate. It also opens up more land around Parkmore to grow the estate.

what_traffic

Ruhanna wrote: »

What you said was that "50% of the city's workforce commute into the city from outside it."

Obviously the other 50% of the city's workforce is commuting through the city to work.

Neither half is bypassing the city.

Ya the City is the destination. Councils own traffic counts show the same.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Ya the City is the destination. Councils own traffic counts show the same.

They want to bypass the city centre. You know this well of course but it doesn't suit your completely over the top anti-car agenda.

what_traffic wrote: »

Ya the City is the destination. Councils own traffic counts show the same.

But the city stretches well outside the city centre and the outer edges of the city being accessible quickly and easily without having to go near the city centre would be massively beneficial.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

They want to bypass the city centre. You know this well of course but it doesn't suit your completely over the top anti-car agenda.



But the city stretches well outside the city centre and the outer edges of the city being accessible quickly and easily without having to go near the city centre would be massively beneficial.

Are the people coming from outside the city to work not mainly east of the county to east of the river? How is a new bridge going to help that?

topcat77

Let's be honest here. Some people only care about what will directly affect them and them only. they don't see the bigger picture or care about the overall future of Galway city as a place to live and work.

I some times think a certain poster is a very clever troll and the majority are just feeding it. I think it's time for me to take a break from this thread as not to destroy my faith in humanity.

Ruhanna

cooperguy wrote: »

Neither will the road. There is an exit directly into Parkmore industrial estate. It also opens up more land around Parkmore to grow the estate.

More car-dependent development. Sure, let's keep on doing the same thing over and over again while hoping for a different result.

How are you getting on with collecting evidence that converting a general traffic lane to a bus lane reduces its people-carrying capacity?

what_traffic

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

They want to bypass the city centre. You know this well of course but it doesn't suit your completely over the top anti-car agenda.

ARUP' have designed a ring road that will act as a distributor road for the City, it aint no bypass.
Anyhow - why so emotional about it? Not anti-car at all; use one the odd day myself in Galway City. Its how one uses them would have issue with.
Whats best for the City/County residents as a whole is my main concern.
Efficiency of movement is the goal.

Ruhanna

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

They want to bypass the city centre. You know this well of course but it doesn't suit your completely over the top anti-car agenda.

But the city stretches well outside the city centre and the outer edges of the city being accessible quickly and easily without having to go near the city centre would be massively beneficial.

The "anti-car agenda" jibe is pure reactionary blather. You're like an old broken record.

You claim that a new ring road is needed urgently because of some joke notion of a traffic "emergency" yet your own description of your own car use is of easy off-peak commutes, playing with your phone while sitting in traffic, speeding wherever and whenever you can get away with it, and relatively free-flowing traffic when schools are closed.

And we're meant to support the building of a massively expensive and environmentally disruptive motorway for that kind of codology?

On yer bike.

Ruhanna

xckjoo wrote: »

Are the people coming from outside the city to work not mainly east of the county to east of the river? How is a new bridge going to help that?

It's not meant to help that.

Its overall purpose is to make space for growth in car traffic.

Some of that growth will occur immediately due to extra trips generated by people who start driving (more) because of the opportunities afforded by a new motorway.

Eventually there will be substantial growth in motor traffic due to the creation of new car-dependent development in the broad hinterland of the motorway. Somebody already mentioned expansion of Parkmore, for example.

By the way, on the issue of opening up development land, let's not forget one major reason why the two Galway councils are pushing for this motorway project: development contributions. They stand to gain hugely. Big windfalls will ensure that their salaries and pensions are assured for another while.

John_Rambo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

They want to bypass the city centre. You know this well of course but it doesn't suit your completely over the top anti-car agenda

Nox, you've been told time and time again that you're talking to motorists here. There isn't an anti-car agenda, there's an anti traffic agenda.

- It's ok for motorists to use public transport.
- It's ok for motorists to call for better public transport.
- Cities world wide are moving away from car dependency.
- There's going to be a shift from fossil fuels and they're going to get expensive.
- People are concerned about air pollution.

I know this down's suit your door to door car dependency but what doesn't suit the individual makes the city a safer, better, free flowing city.

flynnlives

Some amount of nonsense in this thread.

The reality is that there has been NO major roads infastructure built in Galway city for over 20 years. Nothing.
The Quincentinal bridge was built in the early 90's.

We now have a situation where there is massive traffic jams in the morning and evenings. Ive personally heard business people say that firdays are no goes for meetings in the city. People are often sitting in their cars for 1+ hours coming from Parkmore. We also have idiot drivers who drive as if Galway is a small leaisurely village and drive around at a snails pace.

How can people suggest doing the same thing over and over, ie, building roads doesnt solve the problem if no fecking roads have been actually built!!

Here are some more facts:
Public transport is a joke.
Cycling is not for everyone.
6 months of the year the weather is crazy

The logical solution is the outer bypass. It will take all the commuter traffic from Parkmore to the west and vice versa outta the city centre.
You can then go to town on Gluas and other solutions for the city. Every major city the world over has some sort of outer bypass. To suggest Galway doesnt need one is daft.

There is an agenda from a certain cohort in Galway to stop this. They have the same stubborn mentallity that got us the Palas cinema rubbish. They only want what they think is good and are determined to bully and ignore alternatives.

machaseh

flynnlives wrote: »

The logical solution is the outer bypass. It will take all the commuter traffic from Parkmore to the west and vice versa outta the city centre.
You can then go to town on Gluas and other solutions for the city. Every major city the world over has some sort of outer bypass. To suggest Galway doesnt need one is daft.

There is an agenda from a certain cohort in Galway to stop this. They have the same stubborn mentallity that got us the Palas cinema rubbish. They only want what they thing is good and are determined to bully and ignore alternatives.

Building the bypass is absolutely fine, but get funding for the Gluas first. It is very sorely needed. Even if it's literally only one single line.

xckjoo

flynnlives wrote: »

Some amount of nonsense in this thread.

The reality is that there has been NO major roads infastructure built in Galway city for over 20 years. Nothing.
The Quincentinal bridge was built in the early 90's.

We now have a situation where there is massive traffic jams in the morning and evenings. Ive personally heard business people say that firdays are no goes for meetings in the city. People are often sitting in their cars for 1+ hours coming from Parkmore. We also have idiot drivers who drive as if Galway is a small leaisurely village and drive around at a snails pace.

How can people suggest doing the same thing over and over, ie, building roads doesnt solve the problem if no fecking roads have been actually built!!

Here are some more facts:
Public transport is a joke.
Cycling is not for everyone.
6 months of the year the weather is crazy

The logical solution is the outer bypass. It will take all the commuter traffic from Parkmore to the west and vice versa outta the city centre.
You can then go to town on Gluas and other solutions for the city. Every major city the world over has some sort of outer bypass. To suggest Galway doesnt need one is daft.

There is an agenda from a certain cohort in Galway to stop this. They have the same stubborn mentallity that got us the Palas cinema rubbish. They only want what they thing is good and are determined to bully and ignore alternatives.

There has been loads of road infrastructure built over the last 20 years and being built to this day. Billions of euros worth. Nearly all our roundabouts have been removed, Parkmore has gone through several reworkings, we've a brand new fancy motorway to Dublin, Western Distributor has been extensively reworked, most of the roads east of the river were country lanes 20 years ago, etc., etc. We're constantly building and reworking roads and the traffic has only gotten worse. The only thing that hasn't been tried is trying to improve infrastructure for something other than private car usage.



P.S. It's no longer being called a bypass because even the most hardened supporter can't justify bypassing the city. It's a "ring road" now because that's different somehow.

?Cee?view

flynnlives wrote: »

Some amount of nonsense in this thread.

The reality is that there has been NO major roads infastructure built in Galway city for over 20 years. Nothing.
The Quincentinal bridge was built in the early 90's.

We now have a situation where there is massive traffic jams in the morning and evenings. Ive personally heard business people say that firdays are no goes for meetings in the city. People are often sitting in their cars for 1+ hours coming from Parkmore. We also have idiot drivers who drive as if Galway is a small leaisurely village and drive around at a snails pace.

How can people suggest doing the same thing over and over, ie, building roads doesnt solve the problem if no fecking roads have been actually built!!

Here are some more facts:
Public transport is a joke.
Cycling is not for everyone.
6 months of the year the weather is crazy

The logical solution is the outer bypass. It will take all the commuter traffic from Parkmore to the west and vice versa outta the city centre.
You can then go to town on Gluas and other solutions for the city. Every major city the world over has some sort of outer bypass. To suggest Galway doesnt need one is daft.

There is an agenda from a certain cohort in Galway to stop this. They have the same stubborn mentallity that got us the Palas cinema rubbish. They only want what they thing is good and are determined to bully and ignore alternatives.

I wouldn't worry because this thread an echo chamber. It's really a collection of people with one point of view who shout down others who oppose them.

Nox comes across as not a particularly empathetic type, but most people here need to understand that his view, whether they like it or not, needs to be considered, not just rejected by accusing him of blathering etc. His is most likely the majority view outside the "world" of Galway boards. The argument against Nox and his ilk won't be won by shouting louder than him.

serfboard

machaseh wrote: »

Building the bypass is absolutely fine, but get funding for the Gluas first. It is very sorely needed. Even if it's literally only one single line.

Definitely not needed. Where are you going to put the line? If you find the space for it, try running a QBC along whatever corridor you're considering, and actually provide the feckin service, and then we'll talk about Gluas.

The bit in bold, BTW, is what I'm most sceptical about - where is the orbital Knocknacarra->Ballybrit bus service, for example, which could be provided now?

Why did the Park n' Ride at Carnmore fail? Because there was no Bus Lane on the Monivea Road to Parkmore/Ballybrit and no Bus Lane on the Parkmore Road. Why not?

Where is the proposed Bus Lane along the Tuam road?

Try a few of these first, before you go jumping in with your Gluas.

cooperguy

Ruhanna wrote: »

More car-dependent development. Sure, let's keep on doing the same thing over and over again while hoping for a different result.

How are you getting on with collecting evidence that converting a general traffic lane to a bus lane reduces its people-carrying capacity?

I take it you chose to ignore my response then. Not surprising really. How are you getting on constructing a realistic case that removing 50% capacity will not topple a city on a traffic knife edge into chaos? Its not about theoretical number of bus seats vs car seats its about the realistic chance of enough bus seats running to the right places to take the amount of cars off the road thats required if you remove 50% capacity.

Constant shifting goalposts of a) if it bypasses the city whats the point to b)sure it has exits where we need them but thats wrong too doesn't help your case either. Or is it development of the industrial estate which you have a problem with, because without a thriving industrial sector in Galway you have no hope of seeing any of the other development you want. It cant all be city centre office blocks and tech development. We have a thriving Med Tech sector that needs support.

Gluas, lol, not before 2050 at the earliest

flynnlives

xckjoo wrote: »

There has been loads of road infrastructure built over the last 20 years and being built to this day. Billions of euros worth. Nearly all our roundabouts have been removed, Parkmore has gone through several reworkings, we've a brand new fancy motorway to Dublin, Western Distributor has been extensively reworked, most of the roads east of the river were country lanes 20 years ago, etc., etc. We're constantly building and reworking roads and the traffic has only gotten worse. The only thing that hasn't been tried is trying to improve infrastructure for something other than private car usage.



P.S. It's no longer being called a bypass because even the most hardened supporter can't justify bypassing the city. It's a "ring road" now because that's different somehow.

Show me an example of new major road infastructure in Galway in the past 20 years?

changing a roundabout to a traffic light is not major.
The motorway isnt in the city

The only large change has been headford road near dunnes and the seamus quirke road being upgraded.

You can argue pedantics but facts are facts. There has been no major road infastructure built in Galway city over the last 20 years. By and large we have the same roads as we had in 2000.

Ruhanna

Ruhanna wrote: »

Eventually there will be substantial growth in motor traffic due to the creation of new car-dependent development in the broad hinterland of the motorway. Somebody already mentioned expansion of Parkmore, for example.

You hardly expect large industrial developments to be build in the city centre so if you don't want to open up new areas of land or expand existing ones where will large developments employing large numbers of people be located??

Also I really detest this opinion that it should not be made easy for people to commute long distance quickly to work. This is a very good thing as it enable people to live where they want, often with much cheaper or better housing, stay living in their home areas close to family and friends, stay close to their support network etc etc. It also means people can stay settled in an area and change job with much more options due to being able to travel far further in short periods of time.

For example I know of a few people living in the country to the north east of the city who commute to Shannon and back everyday, these are in highly skilled roles in some of the multinationals down there but it was possible for these people to stay living where they want, their family are settled yet open up new and lucrative job opportunities. Its only about a 45 min drive (and a nice relaxing drive at that), faster than many people are getting from the same area into Galway city to work. Without the motorway they wouldn't be able to do this and for at least 2 of the people I know doing it they have no interested in living down there so they would not have the job they have.

xckjoo

flynnlives wrote: »

Show me an example of new major road infastructure in Galway in the past 20 years?

changing a roundabout to a traffic light is not major.
The motorway isnt in the city

The only large change has been headford road near dunnes and the seamus quirke road being upgraded.

You can argue pedantics but facts are facts. There has been no major road infastructure built in Galway city over the last 20 years. By and large we have the same roads as we had in 2000.

What are you on about? They're all major. Look at the costs and effort involved. The motorway connects near the proposed ring road so how can you not count it? I'm including all the road infrastructure that were built so you can come on and off that motorway by the way. Do they not count either? What about all the roads east of the city that were little more than dirt tracks 20 years ago? Shop Street was only pedestrianised in the late 90's, which is only a little over 20 years ago.

This is the most head-in-the-sand opinion I've seen in this thread and that's saying a lot

Ruhanna

cooperguy wrote: »

I take it you chose to ignore my response then. Not surprising really.

Which response?

Have you got the requested evidence to back your claims? Yes or no?

If yes, please link to where you posted it.

If no, then you have no such evidence. End of story.

Wompa1

?Cee?view wrote: »

I wouldn't worry because this thread an echo chamber. It's really a collection of people with one point of view who shout down others who oppose them.

Nox comes across as not a particularly empathetic type, but most people here need to understand that his view, whether they like it or not, needs to be considered, not just rejected by accusing him of blathering etc. His is most likely the majority view outside the "world" of Galway boards. The argument against Nox and his ilk won't be won by shouting louder than him.

This isn't Galway Boards though. It's Galway City. Having posted here for many years, the regular posters are those who live or at least spent a decent amount of time living in the city. From Nox's past posts, he's posting from the perspective of someone who lives outside the city and is only interested in commuting in and out as desired.

People who live in the city will relate more to public transportation, cycle lanes etc. People who have no intention of living in the city but want to be able to go right into the city centre by car, will of course oppose the idea of restricting traffic around the centre with more view on improved public transport...

It's not an echochamber per se. It's two very different perspectives.

Does Galway aspire to be a city? Or should it continue to be a decent sized town?

flynnlives wrote: »

Show me an example of new major road infastructure in Galway in the past 20 years?

changing a roundabout to a traffic light is not major.
The motorway isnt in the city

The only large change has been headford road near dunnes and the seamus quirke road being upgraded.

You can argue pedantics but facts are facts. There has been no major road infastructure built in Galway city over the last 20 years. By and large we have the same roads as we had in 2000.

I assume you mean semantics and you're the one trying to put a definition on major road infrastructure in the city... Of course changing the roundabouts to junctions was a major road infrastructure project it changed the entire flow of traffic and took months to complete.

Also, as Bumble has pointed out multiple times. For the most part, the traffic build up isn't anywhere near the city centre. There have been plenty of road projects for the national roads feeding into the city which is where the traffic is coming from and the backlogs start.

Ruhanna

Ruhanna wrote: »

Which response?

Have you got the requested evidence to back your claims? Yes or no?

If yes, please link to where you posted it.

If no, then you have no such evidence. End of story.

You don't need evidence to know what a total disaster it would be for traffic to convert a lane on the bridge to a bus lane. You might get a handfull of people onto the bus but that would reduce the number of cars a meaningless amount so you would have all the current traffic trying to go on one lane. It would bring the entire city to a complete standstill. Luckily no one is insane enough to do something like this.

Wompa1 wrote: »

This isn't Galway Boards though. It's Galway City. Having posted here for many years, the regular posters are those who live or at least spent a decent amount of time living in the city. From Nox's past posts, he's posting from the perspective of someone who lives outside the city and is only interested in commuting in and out as desired.

People who live in the city will relate more to public transportation, cycle lanes etc. People who have no intention of living in the city but want to be able to go right into the city centre by car, will of course oppose the idea of restricting traffic around the centre with more view on improved public transport...

Personally I don't believe living in the city or not matters. People who don't live in the city but use the city for work, recreation etc should have just as much say over it imo as those that live in it.

Ashleigh1986

This sums up the crazy situation regarding " traffic lights sequencing " in galway city .
7:30 am this morning ....
I'm driving in my taxi from roscam direction towards merlin hospital .
Came to traffic lights at galway crystal .
Traffic backed up from those lights as far back as roscam lights .
I was able to use bus lane .
Looked ahead and .... NOT ONE SINGLE VECIHCLE FROM THOSE LIGHTS TO CORRIB GREAT SOUTHERN ROUDABOUT .
Having traffic lights on a sequence from 7:30 am to 9:30 am and 4pm to 7pm won't work .
CCTV manned traffic lights are a must .
Pedestrian light coming on at galway crystal when there was no pedestrians to cross .

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

You hardly expect large industrial developments to be build in the city centre so if you don't want to open up new areas of land or expand existing ones where will large developments employing large numbers of people be located??

Also I really detect this opinion that it should not be made easy for people to commute long distance quickly to work. This is a very good thing as it enable people to live where they want, often with much cheaper or better housing, stay living in their home areas close to family and friends, stay close to their support network etc etc. It also means people can stay settled in an area and change job with much more options due to being able to travel far further in short periods of time.

For example I know of a few people living north east of the city who commute to Shannon and back everyday, these are in highly skilled roles in some of the multinationals down there but it was possible for these people to stay living where they want, their family are settled yet open up new and lucrative job opportunities. Its only about a 45 min drive (and a nice relaxing drive at that), faster than many people are getting from the same area into Galway city to work. Without the motorway they wouldn't be able to do this and for at least 2 of the people I know doing it they have no interested in living down there so they would not have the job they have.

I can only speak for myself (obviously), but I do think it's socially beneficial to be able to make these kinds of commutes if necessary. I wouldn't personally like to do it, but I've come close to needing to do it before and would rather keep my family where they are.

But I do have issues with the only option to make these commutes being to drive. It's highly inefficient and a waste of life. At least if you're on a bus or train you can do other things. Even if it's just relaxing and switching off. Plus it chokes up wherever the job locations are with traffic and worsens the quality-of-life for the locals.
TLDR: I'm anti-inefficient transport, not anti a specific type of transport. Cars have their place but shouldn't be prioritised over everything else

Ashleigh1986

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

This sums up the crazy situation regarding " traffic lights sequencing " in galway city .
7:30 am this morning ....
I'm driving in my taxi from roscam direction towards merlin hospital .
Came to traffic lights at galway crystal .
Traffic backed up from those lights as far back as roscam lights .
I was able to use bus lane .
Looked ahead and .... NOT ONE SINGLE VECIHCLE FROM THOSE LIGHTS TO CORRIB GREAT SOUTHERN ROUDABOUT .
Having traffic lights on a sequence from 7:30 am to 9:30 am and 4pm to 7pm won't work .
CCTV manned traffic lights are a must .
Pedestrian light coming on at galway crystal when there was no pedestrians to cross .

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you have a distinct misconception of how CCTV monitored junctions work. There will never be someone watching a junction to make tiny adjustments in the sequence based on the flow of traffic in a single moment. That's not done anywhere in the world

Ruhanna

flynnlives wrote: »

Some amount of nonsense in this thread.

The reality is that there has been NO major roads infastructure built in Galway city for over 20 years. Nothing.
The Quincentinal bridge was built in the early 90's.

We now have a situation where there is massive traffic jams in the morning and evenings. Ive personally heard business people say that firdays are no goes for meetings in the city. People are often sitting in their cars for 1+ hours coming from Parkmore. We also have idiot drivers who drive as if Galway is a small leaisurely village and drive around at a snails pace.

How can people suggest doing the same thing over and over, ie, building roads doesnt solve the problem if no fecking roads have been actually built!!

Here are some more facts:
Public transport is a joke.
Cycling is not for everyone.
6 months of the year the weather is crazy

The logical solution is the outer bypass. It will take all the commuter traffic from Parkmore to the west and vice versa outta the city centre.
You can then go to town on Gluas and other solutions for the city. Every major city the world over has some sort of outer bypass. To suggest Galway doesnt need one is daft.

There is an agenda from a certain cohort in Galway to stop this. They have the same stubborn mentallity that got us the Palas cinema rubbish. They only want what they think is good and are determined to bully and ignore alternatives.

So much wrong with that it's hard to take it all in.

The date of infrastructure is irrelevant. What matters is efficiency. The Salmon Weir Bridge was built in the early 19th Century. It probably carried far more people per metre width back then. Why? Because most people would have been travelling on foot.

Traffic congestion is a peak hour problem, and it's major causes are, in no particular order: car dependence, single occupant vehicles, lack of public transport, state failure to provide for cycling, school travel, excessive car use on short trips, over-supply free and/or cheap parking. There may be other reasons, but a lack of roads is not the main factor. If that was the case, why does traffic congestion effectively evaporate when schools are closed? Do business people suddenly move to a 4-day week, taking Fridays off?

Galway motorists are not driving at a snail's pace. The classic driving behaviour in Galway is speeding from one queue of traffic to the next.

"Cycling is not for everyone" is a meaningless platitude. Nobody expects "everyone" to cycle.

Even more meaningless is your claim that the weather is "crazy" for half the year. It's simply not true, and in any case how does that explain Galway's car addiction during the half of the year when the weather is presumably uncrazy?

There is no "outer bypass" project, so are we to logically conclude that you have been asleep, living offline in a cave or unable to read since the European Court of Justice issued its decision in 2013?

Galway already has a ring road, like many European cities. Galway is also stupidly car dependent, unlike many European cities.

The only people trying to ignore real alternatives are car addicts, libertarians and vested interests.

Ruhanna

machaseh wrote: »

Building the bypass is absolutely fine, but get funding for the Gluas first. It is very sorely needed. Even if it's literally only one single line.

It's not.

Building a new ring road will undermine public transport for the next twenty years if not longer.

Where's the logic in spending the best part of a billion on a new high-speed corridor for car commuters to travel alone in their private vehicles, and then throwing hundreds of millions more at "Gluas" to try to win them back to public transport?

Ruhanna

?Cee?view wrote: »

Nox comes across as not a particularly empathetic type, but most people here need to understand that his view, whether they like it or not, needs to be considered, not just rejected by accusing him of blathering etc. His is most likely the majority view outside the "world" of Galway boards. The argument against Nox and his ilk won't be won by shouting louder than him.

It's a nonsense view, like something you'd get from Top Gear. A local Jeremy Clarkson, with none of the entertainment value.