Galway traffic

xckjoo

Ruhanna wrote: »

"Cycling is not for everyone" is a meaningless platitude. Nobody expects "everyone" to cycle.

It's funny how "cycling is not for everyone" is trotted out a lot but nobody ever seems to mention that driving is not for everyone. Yet we all know people that should never have been let pass a driving test and are absolutely terrifying behind the wheel of a car. I know people that are terrified of driving but are forced to do it daily because they've no alternative.

timmyntc

I agree with pretty much everything you said, except:

Ruhanna wrote: »

Galway already has a ring road, like many European cities. Galway is also stupidly car dependent, unlike many European cities.

Blatantly untrue.
Bothar na dTreadbh and the QC Bridge are not a ring road, it pretty much cuts right through the middle of the city.

?Cee?view

Ruhanna wrote: »

It's a nonsense view, like something you'd get from Top Gear. An Irish Jeremy Clarkson, with none of the entertainment value.

Yes, you'll really persuade people with your winning ways and arguments...:rolleyes:

Ruhanna

Ruhanna wrote: »

It's a nonsense view, like something you'd get from Top Gear. An Irish Jeremy Clarkson, with none of the entertainment value.

I would be confident in saying my views would be held by the vast vast majority of people and you would find it very hard to find more people to agree with you outside of the few posters on this thread who do so.

I have never spoken to anyone in person on this topic who isn't massively in favour of the bypass/ ring road (who cares what its called).

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I would be confident in saying my views would be held by the vast vast majority of people and you would find it very hard to find more people to agree with you outside of the few posters on this thread who do so.

I have never spoken to anyone in person on this topic who isn't massively in favour of the bypass/ ring road (who cares what its called).

You should talk to the engineers that were paid to do the feasibility report :pac:

Ruhanna

?Cee?view wrote: »

Yes, you'll really persuade people with your winning ways and arguments...:rolleyes:

Try evidence then, CV.

cooperguy

Ruhanna wrote: »

Which response?

Have you got the requested evidence to back your claims? Yes or no?

If yes, please link to where you posted it.

If no, then you have no such evidence. End of story.

I have provided more evidence than you have thats for sure.

* I have illustrated how the traffic in Galway is on a knife edge with even minor issues causing gridlock
* I have shown how your requested bus corridor reduces the car handling capacity of the roads by approximately 50%

In return I have asked for evidence that your bus route would provide enough usable capacity to bring those 50% of car journeys off the road. What routes would the buses take that would make that practical? What is the frequency?

It seems like you have no such evidence this would work at all when you practically look at where the buses would go and the amount of capacity that has to be replaced.

Ruhanna

timmyntc wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything you said, except:

Blatantly untrue.
Bothar na dTreadbh and the QC Bridge are not a ring road, it pretty much cuts right through the middle of the city.

When was the road built? What development followed it?

Ruhanna

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I would be confident in saying my views would be held by the vast vast majority of people and you would find it very hard to find more people to agree with you outside of the few posters on this thread who do so.

I have never spoken to anyone in person on this topic who isn't massively in favour of the bypass/ ring road (who cares what its called).

Do they agree with your views on car addiction, speeding and using mobile phones in traffic to alleviate the boredom?

Wombatman

Ruhanna wrote: »

So much wrong with that it's hard to take it all in.

The date of infrastructure is irrelevant. What matters is efficiency. The Salmon Weir Bridge was built in the early 19th Century. It probably carried far more people per metre width back then. Why? Because most people would have been travelling on foot.

Traffic congestion is a peak hour problem, and it's major causes are, in no particular order: car dependence, single occupant vehicles, lack of public transport, state failure to provide for cycling, school travel, excessive car use on short trips, over-supply free and/or cheap parking. There may be other reasons, but a lack of roads is not the main factor. If that was the case, why does traffic congestion effectively evaporate when schools are closed? Do business people suddenly move to a 4-day week, taking Fridays off?

Galway motorists are not driving at a snail's pace. The classic driving behaviour in Galway is speeding from one queue of traffic to the next.

"Cycling is not for everyone" is a meaningless platitude. Nobody expects "everyone" to cycle.

Even more meaningless is your claim that the weather is "crazy" for half the year. It's simply not true, and in any case how does that explain Galway's car addiction during the half of the year when the weather is presumably uncrazy?

There is no "outer bypass" project, so are we to logically conclude that you have been asleep, living offline in a cave or unable to read since the European Court of Justice issued its decision in 2013?

Galway already has a ring road, like many European cities. Galway is also stupidly car dependent, unlike many European cities.

The only people trying to ignore real alternatives are car addicts, libertarians and vested interests.

Car addicts. Is car addiction a medical condition or something?

The reality is drivers in the city spend an average of 43.5 hours per year sitting in rush hour traffic, the worst in Ireland (2017).

This is a legitimate grievance by any standards. Suggesting the best way to solve the problem is to stop using cars is both condescending and naive.

A 12 lane superhighway across the city would solve the traffic problems in an ideal world but that is about as realistic as suggesting everybody should bike to work or use non-existent public transport. The solution lies somewhere in the middle. Totally dismissing and resisting road infrastructure as a solution is wrong.

Ruhanna

cooperguy wrote: »

I have provided more evidence than you have thats for sure.

So, no evidence to back your claims about the people-carrying capacity of bus lanes versus general traffic lanes?

As expected.

?Cee?view

Ruhanna wrote: »

Try evidence then, CV.

Where is your evidence? You demand evidence from those with contrary views, but reject others' views as nonsense while demanding said evidence from them. I've no doubt that you can provide evidence to suit your agenda, but proffering it while being respectful to others would be preferable to merely demanding evidence to support counterarguments. Indeed, you're the one who wants change. Some would argue that if there's a burden of proof here, it should rest on those who want to disrupt most by causing change. In any event, logically, you can't win your argument unless you persuade those with opposing views.

cooperguy

Ruhanna wrote: »

So, no evidence to back your claims about the people-carrying capacity of bus lanes versus general traffic lanes?

As expected.

Did you read anything I said? I repeated *twice* that I am not talking about the theoretical maximum amount of seats that can fit in a bus lane, its not in question that a lane of buses has more people than a lane of cars. I am talking about how practical it is to transfer that 50% of car capacity into buses. How would that bus route work, where would it go?

As expected, you have no answer. Just hope?

Ruhanna

Wombatman wrote: »

The reality is drivers in the city spend an average of 43.5 hours per year sitting in rush hour traffic, the worst in Ireland (2017).

This is a legitimate grievance by any standards. Suggesting the best way to solve the problem is to stop using cars is both condescending and naive.

If sitting in traffic was so bad, car enthusiasts like Van Immense Bug wouldn't be telling us how wonderful private transport is, and how proposing alternatives is an assault on personal liberty.

People who are sitting in cars, especially when travelling alone, are not stuck in traffic. They are traffic.

When we drive, traffic is not other people; it's us. What's the legitimate grievance then? That the other people shouldn't all be driving at the same time? That all of us are somehow entitled to drive (most of us alone) all at the same time, and we are legitimately aggrieved because the public roads aren't big enough to accommodate our private desires to travel wherever we like, whenever we like, as fast as we would like? That's not an engineering deficit. It's an ideological demand.

xckjoo

Wombatman wrote: »

Car addicts. Is car addiction a medical condition or something?

The reality is drivers in the city spend an average of 43.5 hours per year sitting in rush hour traffic, the worst in Ireland (2017).

This is a legitimate grievance by any standards. Suggesting the best way to solve the problem is to stop using cars is both condescending and naive.

A 12 lane superhighway across the city would solve the traffic problems in an ideal world but that is about as realistic as suggesting everybody should bike to work or use non-existent public transport. The solution lies somewhere in the middle. Totally dismissing and resisting road infrastructure as a solution is wrong.

I agree. I don't like the rhetoric of "just get out of your car" as most people don't have a reliable alternative. But building more roads isn't going to change that. It'll just make the alternatives less likely to appear and every bit of evidence points towards car usage increasing at a greater rate than road capacity. The only solution is to move away from a population completely dependant on private car usage. It's far more efficient, cost effective and productive. When we hit capacity with more efficient transport systems, then we can look to add more infrastructure.

Ruhanna

?Cee?view wrote: »

Where is your evidence? You demand evidence from those with contrary views, but reject others' views as nonsense while demanding said evidence from them. I've no doubt that you can provide evidence to suit your agenda, but proffering it while being respectful to others would be preferable to merely demanding evidence to support counterarguments. Indeed, you're the one who wants change. Some would argue that if there's a burden of proof here, it should rest on those who want to disrupt most by causing change. In any event, logically, you can't win your argument unless you persuade those with opposing views.

Earlier you were defending Van Immense Bug, whose views you appear to share.

If you don't want an echo chamber where people try to shout down others' opinions, try offering objective evidence of some sort, eg step in and show how converting a general traffic lane to a bus lane reduces its people-carrying capacity.

Win us over with facts, not just value-laden opinions such as that people should be facilitated to drive their private cars if that is what they want to do. That's in the realm of politics and socio-economics, not engineering, which is the alleged justification for the new ring road.

Ashleigh1986

Deleted User wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you have a distinct misconception of how CCTV monitored junctions work. There will never be someone watching a junction to make tiny adjustments in the sequence based on the flow of traffic in a single moment. That's not done anywhere in the world

But it's not in a single moment .
It's 5 hours per day Monday to Friday at most traffic light junctions .
Traffic stopped at red lights while opposite is green , with no vecihcles coming out of that junction , and than pedestrian lights coming on with no pedestrian there .
The best way to get in and out of eyre square is go in by Lough atalia and also come out the same way .
Why is that ??
Because of the amount of time given in the green light sequence at lights below the galmont hotel .
Same at the lights at bottom of college road .
Only when your coming out Lough atalia .
Has anyone noticed the state of the road in bohermore at the moment .
I hope when the works are completed and the hotel built that a complete resurfacing is the plan .
It's in a terrible state .

flynnlives

xckjoo wrote: »

What are you on about? They're all major. Look at the costs and effort involved. The motorway connects near the proposed ring road so how can you not count it? I'm including all the road infrastructure that were built so you can come on and off that motorway by the way. Do they not count either? What about all the roads east of the city that were little more than dirt tracks 20 years ago? Shop Street was only pedestrianised in the late 90's, which is only a little over 20 years ago.

This is the most head-in-the-sand opinion I've seen in this thread and that's saying a lot

What Part of "city" do you not understand?

Pedestrianising Shop happed in the 90s and is not infastructure.

?Cee?view

cooperguy wrote: »

Did you read anything I said? I repeated *twice* that I am not talking about the theoretical maximum amount of seats that can fit in a bus lane, its not in question that a lane of buses has more people than a lane of cars. I am talking about how practical it is to transfer that 50% of car capacity into buses. How would that bus route work, where would it go?

As expected, you have no answer. Just hope?

Are you "talking sh**e (not for the first time either)", or a "car addicts, libertarians or vested interests." or perhaps nonsensical or Jeremy Clarkson or maybe even "like a broken old record" spouting "pure reactionary blather"? Which is it? You are clearly one if you don't bow down and agree.

Please provide evidence to support your answer.

cooperguy

Ruhanna wrote: »

If you don't want an echo chamber where people try to shout down others' opinions, try offering objective evidence of some sort, eg step in and show how converting a general traffic lane to a bus lane reduces its people-carrying capacity.

Why would you ask someone to prove something that isn't true? It hardly progresses the discussion

Ruhanna

cooperguy wrote: »

Did you read anything I said? I repeated *twice* that I am not talking about the theoretical maximum amount of seats that can fit in a bus lane, its not in question that a lane of buses has more people than a lane of cars. I am talking about how practical it is to transfer that 50% of car capacity into buses. How would that bus route work, where would it go?

As expected, you have no answer. Just hope?

cooperguy wrote: »

You would need to close down roads in order to introduce bus lanes to make them reliable. There would need to be a giant reduction in traffic to offset the reduced capacity.

You have repeatedly referred to bus lanes as reducing capacity, eg that converting one of two lanes would be halving the capacity.

Now that you've accepted the error in that claim, please explain what you mean by "practical". Are you talking about the logistics of public transport services? Or something else?

A commuter bus service would presumably have to go over the Q Bridge. It's the most obvious direct route. Galway City Council has already moved in that direction. They promised to do it a dozen years ago, when traffic volume was lower. No progress, as usual. The hold-up is political, maybe, or perhaps just the usual incompetence.

https://connachttribune.ie/move-provide-bus-route-across-quincentenary-bridge-412/

Ruhanna

?Cee?view wrote: »

Please provide evidence to support your answer.

But my car!

xckjoo

flynnlives wrote: »

What Part of "city" do you not understand?

Pedestrianising Shop happed in the 90s and is not infastructure.

Well the ring road isn't supposed to be going through the city so it wouldn't satisfy your makey-upy criteria either sweetie pie.
You don't seem to understand what infrastructure is. Or what "a little over 20 years ago" means apparently.

Wombatman

Ruhanna wrote: »

If sitting in traffic was so bad, car enthusiasts like Van Immense Bug wouldn't be telling us how wonderful private transport is, and how proposing alternatives is an assault on personal liberty.

People who are sitting in cars, especially when travelling alone, are not stuck in traffic. They are traffic.

When we drive, traffic is not other people; it's us. What's the legitimate grievance then? That the other people shouldn't all be driving at the same time? That all of us are somehow entitled to drive (most of us alone) all at the same time, and we are legitimately aggrieved because the public roads aren't big enough to accommodate our private desires to travel wherever we like, whenever we like, as fast as we would like? That's not an engineering deficit. It's an ideological demand.

Yeah. We should tell this to every truck driver, delivery man, bus driver, and taxi driver stuck in Galway City's chronic traffic.

"It's all in your mind dude. Just change your ideology and the traffic will disappear".

If a magic cross city metro appeared overnight do you think traffic as it stands would improve?

Ruhanna

Ruhanna wrote: »

Earlier you were defending Van Immense Bug, whose views you appear to share.

If you don't want an echo chamber where people try to shout down others' opinions, try offering objective evidence of some sort, eg step in and show how converting a general traffic lane to a bus lane reduces its people-carrying capacity.

This has been explained multiple times but you are just trolling really by point blank refusing to listen.

How about you answer this. If you convert the QB to one lane and a bus lane and virtually no one who currently drives takes the bus (the almost guaranteed outcome) but now all traffic has to cross the bridge on one lane how will the volume of traffic crossing the bridge change?

Would the number of people crossing the bridge every 15 mins at peak times increase (increase capacity) or decrease (reduce capacity)???

Discodog

Wombatman wrote: »

Yeah. We should tell this to every truck driver, delivery man, bus driver, and taxi driver stuck in Galway City's chronic traffic.

"It's all in your mind dude. Just change your ideology and the traffic will disappear".

If a magic cross city metro appeared overnight do you think traffic as it stands would improve?

Especially the ones who are passing through & don't have any alternative. It's as if nothing exists West of Galway.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

This has been explained multiple times but you are just trolling really by point blank refusing to listen.

How about you answer this. If you convert the QB to one lane and a bus lane and virtually no one who currently drives takes the bus (the almost guaranteed outcome) but now all traffic has to cross the bridge on one lane how will the volume of traffic crossing the bridge change?

Would the number of people crossing the bridge every 15 mins at peak times increase (increase capacity) or decrease (reduce capacity)???

Why would nobody take the bus if it was going to be faster for them? Are we different to people in every city in the world with a functioning public transport system? People aren't stupid. They aren't going to spend twice as long commuting just so they can sit in traffic in their car.

And I don't think capacity is the word you want here. Capacity is related to the upper limits of what can be handled. So it would in fact still increase as buses are more efficient at moving people from A-B than cars as they can carry more people per metre squared.

zell12

OCuiv said on irish language radio this morning that if the GCRR is rejected by ABP and the courts, it'll be forced through by legislation

Did anyone hear this notion before?

donvito99

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

This has been explained multiple times but you are just trolling really by point blank refusing to listen.

How about you answer this. If you convert the QB to one lane and a bus lane and virtually no one who currently drives takes the bus (the almost guaranteed outcome) but now all traffic has to cross the bridge on one lane how will the volume of traffic crossing the bridge change?

Would the number of people crossing the bridge every 15 mins at peak times increase (increase capacity) or decrease (reduce capacity)???

Capacity would obviously increase.

The throughput of people in Bus Lanes in Dublin is many multiples of an equivalent width general traffic lane (on the quays in Dublin I've heard as much as 9x). That is how capacity is increased by re-dedicating a general traffic lane. If the bus is quicker for people, people use it (obviously not yourself as we now know).

Why should a bus lane on the quincentennial bridge be any different?

EDIT: Back in 2017, the bus lane on Dublin's North Quays carried 7,000 people per hour versus 500 private cars (with an average occupancy of 1.2 in 2016). So the bus lane carries almost 12 times as many people as the general traffic lane per hour.

https://www.thejournal.ie/traffic-changes-dublin-city-3545157-Aug2017/

donvito99

Wombatman wrote: »

Yeah. We should tell this to every truck driver, delivery man, bus driver, and taxi driver stuck in Galway City's chronic traffic.

Would Galway have any traffic issues if the only vehicles on the roads were those which you list above?