Galway traffic

TwoWheeledTim

Their core attitude is all wrong - they're focused on moving cars rather than moving people.

It's an old way of thinking and only continues to work if everything is spread out and you have unlimited space (parking + roads) and unlimited budget to keep building roads.

yer man!

Is parking actually free along the prom? I never bothered to parallel park in those spaces as it made little sense if I wanted a walk to park half way along the prom.

In general I imagine people in Galway very much didn't like the introduction of parking charges years ago in the city. I remember when they started charging for Sunday parking a few years and there was push back at the time but have people gotten used to that now?

CowboyTed

blueshark2 wrote: »

Replacing a small proportion of the car parking spaces with new cycling infrastructure IS incentivising cycling. Ideally it would be done with no loss of parking but there's limited space and something has to give.

But cycle lanes are unused... Just look around the city and you see empty cycle lanes...

More Cycle lanes does seem to mean more cyclists... Sorry we have built kms of cycle lanes in the last 20 years and we have barely increased participation by 2%(if that)...
Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result...

So how about some ideas on increasing cycling...

CowboyTed

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Another Galway Traffic thread that meanders down a side street...
Salthill, no more than any other part of the city cannot be seen as a single issue, but as part of a bigger picture.
Changing attitudes and structures throughout the city to affect the transportation of people throughout the city is the only way to succeed.

A Park and Ride in conjunction with upgraded bus services, cycle lanes and inner city pedestrianisation will benefit everyone in the city and visitors coming here.
But God only knows when the city leaders will recognise this.

Lets see...

I am all on for trials (4 weeks) with temporary Bus lanes to see if it works...

The last P&R was unsuccessful because we are told there wasn't dedicated bus lanes...

We have built kms of cycle lanes and participation hasn't had any significant improvement.

"inner city pedestrianisation" - definitely worth a look at and could be broken up into Winter and Summer months. We should be trialing more of this...

I am big on trialing stuff and learning before putting it in place if possible... Learn by trial and error... Loose the fear of making a mistake...

xckjoo

CowboyTed wrote: »

But cycle lanes are unused... Just look around the city and you see empty cycle lanes...

More Cycle lanes does seem to mean more cyclists... Sorry we have built kms of cycle lanes in the last 20 years and we have barely increased participation by 2%(if that)...
Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result...

So how about some ideas on increasing cycling...

Not sure if you're not seeing my posts for some reason, but the bike lanes are poorly planned, implemented and maintained and often leave you more vulnerable than avoiding them completely. But part of the reason they're empty is they're so much more efficient. No bike traffic jams so they keep moving.

It would be insanity to repeat the process of half-arsing cycling infrastructure and expecting a different result. No argument there.

xckjoo

CowboyTed wrote: »

Lets see...

I am all on for trials (4 weeks) with temporary Bus lanes to see if it works...

The last P&R was unsuccessful because we are told there wasn't dedicated bus lanes...

We have built kms of cycle lanes and participation hasn't had any significant improvement.

"inner city pedestrianisation" - definitely worth a look at and could be broken up into Winter and Summer months. We should be trialing more of this...

I am big on trialing stuff and learning before putting it in place if possible... Learn by trial and error... Loose the fear of making a mistake...

That's not very good engineering though. You want to do your research first, identify the optimal solution, throw that out and find what's as close to optimal as you can achieve and then implement it as best you possibly can. Tweaks are fine but if you don't instantly arrive at the outcome you want, you don't panic and throw it all away. 4 weeks is far too short an amount of time to trial anything. Why not a year or more?
There's tonnes of research out there on this kind of thing. It would be lunacy to disregard it and start the trial-and-error process from the ground up.

CowboyTed

xckjoo wrote: »

That's not very good engineering though. You want to do your research first, identify the optimal solution, throw that out and find what's as close to optimal as you can achieve and then implement it as best you possibly can. Tweaks are fine but if you don't instantly arrive at the outcome you want, you don't panic and throw it all away. 4 weeks is far too short an amount of time to trial anything. Why not a year or more?
There's tonnes of research out there on this kind of thing. It would be lunacy to disregard it and start the trial-and-error process from the ground up.

I am not anti cycling, I just don't see results...

The travel plan in 2008 (I think) had cycling at 4.6% and a plan to have it at 20% by 2014.

Today it is at about 5.5%... This is after a good increase in cycle lanes like Westside...

So empty cycle lanes isn't because they are moving fast, r... Sorry. by the Galway has the highest outside Dublin.

Taking lanes for bus lanes and bollards for streets, I don't think this takes much effort...

My main issue is what is yielding the best results. Public Transport which had a target of 20% on that plan is actually at 8%. So also a failure but less so...

These would not be considered successes in engineering sense either. While the car has some major problems it is still carrying 60% and you can clearly see it on Westside any evening...

The major elephant in the room is the population density of Galway (1,400 per Kmsq), this is low, Galway has generally bad weather and hills...

Find a town in the world that has that has the same characteristics and let's see there approach.

We obviously need a bypass and the the city can breath... We have 4 times the cars on the road since the last bridge and we are talking about taking one out... People need to be able to cross the city without coming in to the center...

Statement from Galway County Council regarding the cycle lanes on the Prom

Statement on Galway City Council proposal for Covid-19 Temporary/Pop-Up Cycle lane in Salthill

In May 2020, a transport led City Mobility Team was set up in Galway City Council (GCCMT) for the purposes of considering and agreeing short/medium term temporary mobility interventions in the city. This was done in the context of the Government’s response to COVID-19 which resulted in changed travel patterns and a requirement for safe social distancing in public spaces. To facilitate this, local authorities were charged with reallocating some road space specifically for walking and cycling purposes.

An extensive public engagement exercise was undertaken on-line from the outset by the GCCMT, which resulted in over 1400 submissions being received. There was over-whelming support for the provision of dedicated cycling infrastructure with over 200 submissions alone specifically requesting the installation of a temporary ‘pop-up’ cycle lane in Salthill. The GCCMT agreed that the delivery of this temporary facility would benefit a significant number of users so its progression was agreed as a priority in the Phase 1 Implementation Plan.

An in-house team was established to design the temporary cycle lane in full consultation with the Gardai. A Safety Audit was completed and funding was committed by the National Transport Authority under their special Covid-19 Interim Mobility Measures Fund. The dedicated cycle lane was proposed on both sides of the road from the Grattan Road junction near the Galway Business School to Sea Point and onwards to Blackrock. Cycle specific traffic calming measures, signage and road markings were also proposed from Grattan Road to Wolfe Tone Bridge to give greater priority to cyclists sharing this road with vehicles.

Following extensive engagement with businesses in the Salthill area, who were not in favour of the temporary cycle lane proposals as advanced, Galway City Council at a Council Meeting that took place on the 13th July, 2020, rejected these proposals. The Chief Executive has indicated that the City Council can still implement this cycle lane as designed if consensus can be achieved, subject to funding still being available in accordance with the provisions of the roads act.

The Chief Executive also indicated that the 2016 Preliminary Report on the Proposed Barna Greenway can no longer be implemented as was proposed at that time. Work on a new design for this project will take place as part of the proposed flood defence scheme (CFRAM) for Salthill as well as a revised traffic management plan for the area including an upgraded public transport route.

Due to the complexity of the several legislative processes involved in delivering these cross cutting infrastructural projects in an environmentally sensitive area, it will take several years to significantly advance progress the formal planning of these projects including the delivery of the proposed Greenway towards Barna which will also have to link to the proposed new Dublin to Galway Greenway as part of the cross city element of this.

.............

jammiedodgers

So over-whelming support from the general public for a cycle lane but businesses kick up a fuss and it's scrapped. That sounds very democratic.

xckjoo

CowboyTed wrote: »

I am not anti cycling, I just don't see results...

The travel plan in 2008 (I think) had cycling at 4.6% and a plan to have it at 20% by 2014.

Today it is at about 5.5%... This is after a good increase in cycle lanes like Westside...

So empty cycle lanes isn't because they are moving fast, r... Sorry. by the Galway has the highest outside Dublin.

Taking lanes for bus lanes and bollards for streets, I don't think this takes much effort...

My main issue is what is yielding the best results. Public Transport which had a target of 20% on that plan is actually at 8%. So also a failure but less so...

These would not be considered successes in engineering sense either. While the car has some major problems it is still carrying 60% and you can clearly see it on Westside any evening...

The major elephant in the room is the population density of Galway (1,400 per Kmsq), this is low, Galway has generally bad weather and hills...

Find a town in the world that has that has the same characteristics and let's see there approach.

We obviously need a bypass and the the city can breath... We have 4 times the cars on the road since the last bridge and we are talking about taking one out... People need to be able to cross the city without coming in to the center...

So as I said before, that 20% number was a national target set by the government in 2008/2009. AFAIK there was never a serious attempt to achieve this by GCC. I'll be gracious to them and point out that we entered a serious recession around the time this target was set out so a lot of budgets were tightened. But I've never seen a single document where they set out a plan to achieve this target. I haven't read them all though so am open to correction on this if someone has a link.



60% of commutes are by car because there's no serious alternative for most people, not because it's the optimum solution to move people around. I think the proof of that is all the moaning people do about traffic and the number of hours of peoples lives spent in it. At the moment the options are 1) sit in your car in traffic going directly to/from work, 2) wait for a bus, sit on a bus in the same traffic and take an indirect route to work or 3) cycle past the traffic but risk injury from other road users. If the bus was going to get you to work faster would you not take it? Yes the population density is an issue and that's what's led to this situation where the whole city is constantly clogged with cars and more and more road space is given over to them. But if we had Park and Ride hubs outside the city, people could drive to them to get the bus, much like people in the city would need to walk to the bus stop and not expect it to pick them up at their door.



I wouldn't have a problem with the bridge being built if I saw any reason to believe it will help with traffic. But even the engineers hired to justify its existence seriously struggled to come up with anything. All their research pointed towards it exacerbating the problem.

Deleted User wrote: »

Statement from Galway County Council regarding the cycle lanes on the Prom



.............

I do feel for the businesses in that their probably struggling and so fearful that any change will harm them, but they're doing themselves no favors. Any research I've seen has found that this kind of thing would increase spending. And I'd think the business in Salthill would be particularly suited to foot traffic. There's nothing I can think of that would need a car to carry the things home (e.g. homeware, appliances and supermarkets). They might lose nox as a customer but he's gone to ground anyway so his one man crusade to keep Galway businesses alive is on hold

Mrs OBumble

CowboyTed wrote: »

"inner city pedestrianisation" - definitely worth a look at and could be broken up into Winter and Summer months. We should be trialing more of this...

Quite apart from the noise pollution which follows pedestrianisation, in a post-covid world we do NOT need more places where large groups of pedestrians can gather.

Cars have many faults, but they are great at enforcing social distancing.

jammiedodgers

jammiedodgers wrote: »

So over-whelming support from the general public for a cycle lane but businesses kick up a fuss and it's scrapped. That sounds very democratic.

I wouldn't say overwhelming support, only 1400 people declared an interest. You can be sure most people didn't even know it was happening and its vested interested that went looking for it and found it.

Im sure you could find 10's of thousands against it quite easily.

ben.schlomo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I wouldn't say overwhelming support, only 1400 people declared an interest. You can be sure most people didn't even know it was happening and its vested interested that went looking for it and found it.

Im sure you could find 10's of thousands against it quite easily.

Conduct an infamous Nox study to find out.

fergiesfolly

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Quite apart from the noise pollution which follows pedestrianisation, in a post-covid world we do NOT need more places where large groups of pedestrians can gather.

Cars have many faults, but they are great at enforcing social distancing.

You're attitude to this city is so selfish as to be unbelievable. You moved here some years ago and so the city has to develop around your own little agenda.
You live in a city centre you expect noise.
Most cities want more people to live, work and shop in the city centre. The best way to do that for everyone's benefit is pedestrianisation.

Also, who plans a city around a once in a generation pandemic?
So, you're planning for the next 12-18 months. What about the next 20-30 years?

Honestly, I cannot decide if you're totally self absorbed, or trolling.

serfboard

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

in a post-covid world we do NOT need more places where large groups of pedestrians can gather.

Cars have many faults, but they are great at enforcing social distancing.

Fair enough. Let's send the cars back down Shop St, will we?

Geuze

jammiedodgers wrote: »

So over-whelming support from the general public for a cycle lane but businesses kick up a fuss and it's scrapped. That sounds very democratic.

Business pay rates.

Rates income greatly exceeds LPT income.

serfboard

Geuze wrote: »

Business pay rates.

Rates income greatly exceeds LPT income.

So that Trumps what the public want?

?Cee?view

serfboard wrote: »

Fair enough. Let's send the cars back down Shop St, will we?

Would that be such a bad thing? Back to one way down Shop Street with plenty of room for segregated bike lanes and footpaths. It would ease traffic around the Square, Francis Street and University Road considerably.

Galway City Centre before pedestrianisation was a far nicer and characterful place than the mess it is now. Now it’s pretty much the same as any UK High Street; dominated by international multiples and phone shops.

xckjoo

?Cee?view wrote: »

Would that be such a bad thing? Back to one way down Shop Street with plenty of room for segregated bike lanes and footpaths. It would ease traffic around the Square, Francis Street and University Road considerably.

Galway City Centre before pedestrianisation was a far nicer and characterful place than the mess it is now. Now it’s pretty much the same as any UK High Street; dominated by international multiples and phone shops.

Ah the good old days when there was ceile dances on every corner and we all wore Aran sweaters and Paddy caps....

Or is it the days when nobody had any money, we had to farm to eat, work the bog to heat the house and almost nobody owned a car you're pining for? If we went back to 80's levels of car ownership we would indeed solve the traffic problems.

?Cee?view

xckjoo wrote: »

Ah the good old days when there was ceile dances on every corner and we all wore Aran sweaters and Paddy caps....

Or is it the days when nobody had any money, we had to farm to eat, work the bog to heat the house and almost nobody owned a car you're pining for? If we went back to 80's levels of car ownership we would indeed solve the traffic problems.

Typical reasoned response you’d expect here.

Shop Street was pedestrianised in the 90s not the 1940s.

serfboard

?Cee?view wrote: »

Galway City Centre before pedestrianisation was a far nicer and characterful place than the mess it is now. Now it’s pretty much the same as any UK High Street; dominated by international multiples and phone shops.

And that wouldn't have happened if we had kept the cars going down it?

?Cee?view

serfboard wrote: »

And that wouldn't have happened if we had kept the cars going down it?

Possibly not in some cases. There were hardware shops, white good retailers, television and hifi shops. They closed up shortly afterwards.

Meanwhile in Dun Laoghaire

https://twitter.com/dlrcc/status/1283084430584754178?s=19

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Meanwhile in Dun Laoghaire

https://twitter.com/dlrcc/status/1283084430584754178?s=19

How does using a two-wheeler avoid parking?

gordongekko

Geuze wrote: »

Business pay rates.

Rates income greatly exceeds LPT income.

Rates are suspended lpt isnt

TwoWheeledTim

Geuze wrote: »

Business pay rates.

Rates income greatly exceeds LPT income.

Wow, this should be completely irrelevant... but it does appear that businesses have bought a controlling share of council.

Have any of the Salthill pubs published their manifesto yet for the next election?

gordongekko

Deleted User wrote: »

Statement from Galway County Council regarding the cycle lanes on the Prom



.............

The dedicated cycle lane was proposed on both sides of the road from the Grattan Road junction near the Galway Business School to Sea Point and onwards to Blackrock.

Would it not have been better to have the 2 cycles lanes on the one side of the road? Most people would want to be on the side of the road the prom is on anyway.

Fly_away

I grew up in Galway and have lived here for many a year. The traffic has gotten steadily worse as the years have gone by. But it has gone bananas since 2010.

xckjoo

?Cee?view wrote: »

Possibly not in some cases. There were hardware shops, white good retailers, television and hifi shops. They closed up shortly afterwards.

I said 80s not 40s. The decade it was last somewhat feasible to allow cars through. Although the 40s definitely had less UK and phone shops so why not go back to that? Even less traffic too

Who was still on Shop Street by the time pedestrianisation came in other than O'Connors? They were the biggest campaigners against the change that I can remember but maybe there was people I'm forgetting.

jammiedodgers

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I wouldn't say overwhelming support, only 1400 people declared an interest. You can be sure most people didn't even know it was happening and its vested interested that went looking for it and found it.

Im sure you could find 10's of thousands against it quite easily.

I'm sure I could find 100's of thousands more who were in favour of it who didn't know about it. See, I can make up numbers too.

Geuze wrote: »

Business pay rates.

Rates income greatly exceeds LPT income.

Are politicians elected to represent business interests or to represent the people that voted for them?