Galway traffic

gordongekko

ratracer wrote: »

And, strangely, Dublin traffic hasn’t ground to a halt........ imagine that!!

And imagine they arent closing down oconnell bridge to traffic which is the same as closing the salmon weir. What they are doing is adding proper cycle lanes in area where they will make an impact and also along coastal routes which we appear to be against

Laviski

galway is now compared to dublin

hmmm, okay good to know.

TwoWheeledTim

Comparing how different local authorities are utilising funding that is available to them all.... sure, it's a worthwhile comparison.

You said earlier you didn't want budget to be used on cycle lanes, there's separate budget available that's not going to take from other projects. Why not use it to trial viability and uptake for future projects?

We also have a lot to learn from the design and construction approaches from the Dublin team, they're working through the nights and rolling out real changes in weeks, not years like Galway is aiming for.

CowboyTed

ratracer wrote: »

So there is no money for cycling or bus lanes, but there should be another car lane??

Cycling is not a dead duck, isn’t the govt going to invest €360m in it over the lifetime of this govt? Why shouldn’t Galway be making the most of this ring fenced finding?

It’s rather unfortunate (and depressing from my point of view) that the chief executive of the city council doesn’t work harder for it. The existing design of cycle lanes has been, at best, a box ticking exercise, when it should be part of a long term plan for future city transport requirements.

Cycling as a Method to relive traffic congestion in Galway in not yielding results... We have shown that with the Knocknacarra to Ballybrit cycle lane... Usage is so low the council is not even properly maintaining it.

Hey I am all for getting funding and have a cycling out at the end of the prom out to Silverstrand and around Rusheen bay if possible.... This would be a better leisure cycling route than the prom.

I think Dr Mannix road is more suitable for a cycle lane and continue down towards the town from there... Close to a lot of the schools, it makes more sense than the prom especially in winter.


Cycling linking to Public Transport could also be an idea. Trail it and see...

CowboyTed

ratracer wrote: »

So there is no money for cycling or bus lanes, but there should be another car lane??

Cycling is not a dead duck, isn’t the govt going to invest €360m in it over the lifetime of this govt? Why shouldn’t Galway be making the most of this ring fenced finding?

It’s rather unfortunate (and depressing from my point of view) that the chief executive of the city council doesn’t work harder for it. The existing design of cycle lanes has been, at best, a box ticking exercise, when it should be part of a long term plan for future city transport requirements.

I didn't say that... We could use one of the lanes there and trail HOV solution from Knocknacarra for HOV, PT and certain commercial vehicles in one lane...
Not saying it would work but worth discussing.

Mrs OBumble

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'd take that story with a pinch of salt to be honest. Mrs OBumble has near misses EVERY day with cyclists, unlike everyone else, she dodges death and injury on a weekly basis and can barely make it around the city without risking life and limb with errant cyclists.

Not quite daily. And not near-death, 'cos I'm not that dumb.

But I certainly meet cyclists on the footpath or going the wrong way up a one-way street that I'm crossing several times. But I have more negative experiences with cyclists than with cars. This is consistent, every week.

Many people here don't actually take cyclists seriously at all, so don't bother responding regarding the issues with some of their proposals.

CowboyTed

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Short trials of us routes tend to fail, because they don't give enough time for people to change their behaviours. Also, in a post-Covid world I don't expect shared transport to be a major part of anything.

I'm interested to hear what you think would be a "proper bus route across town".

I am making them short as we can learn and develop more quickly... It also allows for discussion. We should be backing this up with metrics to see if there is up take and good advertising...

Proper route:
Knocknacarra, Westside, University rd, Salmon Weir Bridge(PT only), Ellington St,
Eyre Sq, Foster St, College rd, Renmore, BallyBrit, Parkmore... Try and give bus lane as much as possible, high amount of buses, monitor and see if can during the trial get traffic garda to priortise buses for a trial period...
Again, We should be backing this up with metrics to see if there is up take and good advertising...

If Galway use it gets extended more and more and then we can look at investing on a more permanent basis...

TwoWheeledTim

CowboyTed wrote: »

We have shown that with the Knocknacarra to Ballybrit cycle lane... Usage is so low the council is not even properly maintaining it.

Brilliant

CowboyTed

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

Brilliant

Tim,

It is not celebratory news but cycling as a means of transport has only increased 1% in 12 years... That is very bad.. A number of cycle lanes were built in this time... Bike share was introduced...

And this not considering the inconsistentcy due to the weather.

The city due to its population density, weather and topography cycling is a hard sell.. Public Transport has had better but limited success in the same time.

xckjoo

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

Brilliant

Some people are just so insistent that whatever notions pop into their head must be right that they'll fit any mad narrative to it.

gordongekko

CowboyTed wrote: »

Cycling as a Method to relive traffic congestion in Galway in not yielding results... We have shown that with the Knocknacarra to Ballybrit cycle lane... Usage is so low the council is not even properly maintaining it.

So just ignore everything that's been explained to you and keep repeating the same argument. Youll probably win in the end as people just wont bother to keep explaining things to you

gordongekko

CowboyTed wrote: »

I am making them short as we can learn and develop more quickly... It also allows for discussion. We should be backing this up with metrics to see if there is up take and good advertising...

Proper route:
Knocknacarra, Westside, University rd, Salmon Weir Bridge(PT only), Ellington St,
Eyre Sq, Foster St, College rd, Renmore, BallyBrit, Parkmore... Try and give bus lane as much as possible, high amount of buses, monitor and see if can during the trial get traffic garda to priortise buses for a trial period...
Again, We should be backing this up with metrics to see if there is up take and good advertising...

If Galway use it gets extended more and more and then we can look at investing on a more permanent basis...

And again the true agenda comes out. and again the issue around public transport during a global pandemic have been explained to you and ignored again.

gordongekko

CowboyTed wrote: »

Tim,

It is not celebratory news but cycling as a means of transport has only increased 1% in 12 years... That is very bad.. A number of cycle lanes were built in this time... Bike share was introduced...

And again this was explained to you and you have ignored the responses and just repeated the same argument.

what_traffic

CowboyTed wrote: »

Tim,

It is not celebratory news but cycling as a means of transport has only increased 1% in 12 years... That is very bad.. A number of cycle lanes were built in this time... Bike share was introduced...

Can you list them all?
One of the few that jumps to my mind is the
Doughiska Road (2009)- City Hall gave themselves a D rating on it (the Cycle paths) in the 2016 Galway Transport Strategy.
Go figure that one out.

CowboyTed

gordongekko wrote: »

And again the true agenda comes out. and again the issue around public transport during a global pandemic have been explained to you and ignored again.

Global Pandemic will be sorted in a year or two on the outside... Vaccine by some very credible sources is due by January...

We have had this problem for decades... During COVID traffic not a huge issue...

We are getting on to what real life will be...

So you want to disinvest in PT due to COVID.. Cycling has shown very little promise as a method of transport in Galway...

Again Reality

• Weather
• Topography
• Population Density

I have been saying this for about ten pages and still not addressed how these are going to be overcome...

I know you are not serious because there is more interest in taking parking or roads off cars than lobby for proper regulation on E-bikes, grants for E-Bikes, grants for showers at work....

No everyone can bleat on about COVID this and that but COVID is temporary... Getting these things into a Government Agenda will take time... They actually might get higher cycling numbers that might make cycling an actual alternative. At the moment cycling increased 1% in 12 years as a method of transport, this while cycling was one of the fastest growing sports...
Leisure cycling great and well done and we can build some lovely leisure cycling lanes. You can see I suggested a circular route around Rusheen Bay which would be about 2.5 - 3 miles (5 miles if joined to Blackrock)...

CowboyTed

gordongekko wrote: »

And again this was explained to you and you have ignored the responses and just repeated the same argument.

Cause it still hasn't been answered...

It explained that the last time the target was 20% it wasn't set locally and was just lifted of a national document and used locally. The end result was 5.5% an increase of 1%... Now the target is set against 20%, what kind fools do we think people are...

Give us realistic targets...

So when they wanted the Prom parking it went something like this...
"Why do you want the parking lane on the Prom which Salthill Businesses say it greatly hamper their trade."
"We want to hit our 20% target"
"Did you hit your last target?"
"No, we achieved 6.66% of it"
"So promised 20% last time and got Westside dug up for 2 years and now you want Salthill"

Johnny_BravoIII

CowboyTed wrote: »

Cause it still hasn't been answered...

It explained that the last time the target was 20% it wasn't set locally and was just lifted of a national document and used locally. The end result was 5.5% an increase of 1%... Now the target is set against 20%, what kind fools do we think people are...

Give us realistic targets...

So when they wanted the Prom parking it went something like this...
"Why do you want the parking lane on the Prom which Salthill Businesses say it greatly hamper their trade."
"We want to hit our 20% target"
"Did you hit your last target?"
"No, we achieved 6.66% of it"
"So promised 20% last time and got Westside dug up for 2 years and now you want Salthill"

What's your non-cycling solution to Galway's transport issues?
The solution to Galway's traffic issue is not-rocket science.
Best practice exists in hundreds of cities worldwide.
All sorts of climate's, population sizes etc.

The solution is to reduce car access to the city through investment in public transport, cycling and walking. Remove the car's from the city, invest in public realm, make the city a more attractive 'liveable' environment for residents, safer for people who wish to commute on foot and by bike.

The above approach drives footfall, increases commercial activity, reduces polution, encourages health and wellness in citizens etc.

Over a 50 year period people decide that living in the city or near a commuter hub makes more sense and you begin to reverse tide of one-off housing/car-dependant sprawl. Over a 20 year period we build fast, inexpensive commuter hubs for people travelling from the hinterland and introduce congestion charges on single-occupant vehicles.

If we do the above, we can then see whether there is a need to build a motorway through An Dangan into An Spideal.

People have studied this stuff over 50 years. Phds' in spacial planning, urban design, town planning etc.

Yet every person who owns a car and city councillor thinks they know best.

There is no alternative solution.
If you have one, I'd be interested to hear it.

gordongekko

CowboyTed wrote: »

Cause it still hasn't been answered...

It explained that the last time the target was 20% it wasn't set locally and was just lifted of a national document and used locally. The end result was 5.5% an increase of 1%... Now the target is set against 20%, what kind fools do we think people are...

It was also explained more than once that there are issue with the limited cycle lanes which hinders development. You talk about knocknacarra to ballybrit cycle lane but you ignore the lack of usage of the PT in the area. All the points you raise for PT could be done much cheaper with the closure of those roads and allow cycling only through those roads. All your issues around the lack of using cycle lanes can also be used against PT investment. This has never been tried with regards cycling lanes but you ignore this fact over and over again and just decide its a waste of time.

TwoWheeledTim

CowboyTed is there any chance you're a Project Manager?

Getting awful flashbacks to non-technical PMs I've worked with that only want percentages and numbers but have little to no understanding of the realities of ongoing projects!

TwoWheeledTim

CowboyTed wrote: »

Again Reality

• Weather
• Topography
• Population Density

I have been saying this for about ten pages and still not addressed how these are going to be overcome...

Weather - it isn't always ideal but a bit of decent wet gear and you're good to go. Generally not bad in the early morning, more risk of a shower on the typical evening commute.

Topography - ah here, Galway City and suburbs really aren't that hilly. Most cross city cycles will be an easy gentle downhill into town and gradual incline out of town. Personally I like to pick mostly flat routes and cover the inclines in a short sharp climb. With ebikes a gentle incline with pedal assist is perfect.

Population Density - what's the issue here? We might have low population density but it's also a small city so the distances are within very manageable cycling range for the average Joe.

CowboyTed wrote: »

I know you are not serious because there is more interest in taking parking or roads off cars than lobby for proper regulation on E-bikes, grants for E-Bikes, grants for showers at work....

The Cycle to Work Scheme was extended in the last few days and expanded to cover €1500 ebikes. Done.

What's your issue with the current regulation on ebikes? 250W with pedal assist up to 25km/hr speeds.

Grants for showers would be nice, but you have to prioritise your battles. Central hubs with secure bike parking, showers and lockers would be even nicer.

CowboyTed

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

What's your non-cycling solution to Galway's transport issues?
The solution to Galway's traffic issue is not-rocket science.
Best practice exists in hundreds of cities worldwide.
All sorts of climate's, population sizes etc.

The solution is to reduce car access to the city through investment in public transport, cycling and walking. Remove the car's from the city, invest in public realm, make the city a more attractive 'liveable' environment for residents, safer for people who wish to commute on foot and by bike.

The above approach drives footfall, increases commercial activity, reduces pollution, encourages health and wellness in citizens etc.

Over a 50 year period people decide that living in the city or near a commuter hub makes more sense and you begin to reverse tide of one-off housing/car-dependant sprawl. Over a 20 year period we build fast, inexpensive commuter hubs for people travelling from the hinterland and introduce congestion charges on single-occupant vehicles.

If we do the above, we can then see whether there is a need to build a motorway through An Dangan into An Spideal.

People have studied this stuff over 50 years. Phds' in spacial planning, urban design, town planning etc.

Yet every person who owns a car and city councillor thinks they know best.

There is no alternative solution.
If you have one, I'd be interested to hear it.

Great..

Galway is quite low population density, is quite hilly and has challenging weather for cycling for large many days per year.

We have shown that building cycling infrastructure didn't work. Again 1% in 12 years while Cycling was experiencing a boom.

So please give us a role model city to look at.. With similar conditions as we have and we can look how much the infrastructure costs would be ...

donvito99

CowboyTed wrote: »

So please give us a role model city to look at.. With similar conditions as we have and we can look how much the infrastructure costs would be ...

Up the road in Dublin....

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0528/1143184-dublin-figures-indicate-increase-in-sustainable-travel/

The number cycling was 13,131, an increase in numbers of 171% over the previous 13 years, while the numbers walking increased from 17,113 to 24,991.

So about 6% of commutes on bicycles with shag all integrated bicycle infrastructure.

More people walk or cycle than use heavy rail services.

72% of all journeys not by car also.

timmyntc

CowboyTed wrote: »

Great..

Galway is quite low population density, is quite hilly and has challenging weather for cycling for large many days per year.

We have shown that building cycling infrastructure didn't work. Again 1% in 12 years while Cycling was experiencing a boom.

So please give us a role model city to look at.. With similar conditions as we have and we can look how much the infrastructure costs would be ...

Low population density is an argument *against* public transportation, because its less viable with less density. Cycling is a better solution in a low density area than PT because cycling infrastructure takes up much less room than PT infrastructure (bus lanes/tram lines).

As to Galway being quite hilly, that entirely depends on where you're coming from/going to.
Most of the city is in the flat centre - maybe if you're going to Ballybrit it's hilly, but going to the city centre or out to Parkmore via GMIT there's not really much incline (apart from @ cemetery cross).

Weather is a bit of an issue certainly, wind moreso than rain - which is exactly why segregated cycling infrastructure is needed to facilitate this. Theres nothing scarier than a strong gust of wind nearly taking you off the bike when you're on the road - at least on a footpath/cycle lane you can fall over without a car up your backside.

CowboyTed

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

Weather - it isn't always ideal but a bit of decent wet gear and you're good to go. Generally not bad in the early morning, more risk of a shower on the typical evening commute.

Topography - ah here, Galway City and suburbs really aren't that hilly. Most cross city cycles will be an easy gentle downhill into town and gradual incline out of town. Personally I like to pick mostly flat routes and cover the inclines in a short sharp climb. With ebikes a gentle incline with pedal assist is perfect.

Population Density - what's the issue here? We might have low population density but it's also a small city so the distances are within very manageable cycling range for the average Joe.




The Cycle to Work Scheme was extended in the last few days and expanded to cover €1500 ebikes. Done.

What's your issue with the current regulation on ebikes? 250W with pedal assist up to 25km/hr speeds.

Grants for showers would be nice, but you have to prioritise your battles. Central hubs with secure bike parking, showers and lockers would be even nicer.

Tim,

I love your enthusiasm but Galway has bad weather, Galway is hilly when compared with many cities just compare it. It is a barrier but I agree with you E-Bikes make a big difference here.

Low density is a big issue... It is 10 Km from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit.
That is the same as O'Connell St to Sandyford in Dublin...
Farther than Blackrock to Croke Park...
Over and back every day, on bigger hills in bad inconsistent weather even in the summer.

I am not saying don't do it or don't encourage it but lets be realistic... You are not getting huge numbers doing that day in day out...

Johnny_BravoIII

CowboyTed wrote: »

So please give us a role model city to look at.. With similar conditions as we have and we can look how much the infrastructure costs would be ...

Should I take from this you are not aware of how other cities manage traffic issues?

Why should anybody listen to you?

CowboyTed

donvito99 wrote: »

Up the road in Dublin....

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0528/1143184-dublin-figures-indicate-increase-in-sustainable-travel/



So about 6% of commutes on bicycles with shag all integrated bicycle infrastructure.

More people walk or cycle than use heavy rail services.

72% of all journeys not by car also.

Dublin

• 4 times the population density (And even more so in inner city)
• Flatter city
• Better Weather

Before any infrastructure was built 12 years ago it was 1% lower... Since then a full cycle lane has been completed between Knocknacarra and Ballybrit. Threadneedle road has a lane. So Cycling to work infrastructure is there for a large proportion and it is not used...

Leisure cycling I think has great potential...

CowboyTed

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

Should I take from this you are not aware of how other cities manage traffic issues?

Why should anybody listen to you?

I am aware... But are you considering all factors...

First off other cities get a bypass to take away non city traffic from the center...

Lets start there... Can show tonnes of examples of that...

CowboyTed

timmyntc wrote: »

Low population density is an argument *against* public transportation, because its less viable with less density. Cycling is a better solution in a low density area than PT because cycling infrastructure takes up much less room than PT infrastructure (bus lanes/tram lines).

As to Galway being quite hilly, that entirely depends on where you're coming from/going to.
Most of the city is in the flat centre - maybe if you're going to Ballybrit it's hilly, but going to the city centre or out to Parkmore via GMIT there's not really much incline (apart from @ cemetery cross).

Weather is a bit of an issue certainly, wind moreso than rain - which is exactly why segregated cycling infrastructure is needed to facilitate this. Theres nothing scarier than a strong gust of wind nearly taking you off the bike when you're on the road - at least on a footpath/cycle lane you can fall over without a car up your backside.

PT works well in low density cities if planned right...

If encouraging cycle to work look at going from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit and back.
There is a dedicated cycle lane all the way
10km as I shown that length in Dublin is very large
Two Main hills
Very exposed

But generally unused...

TwoWheeledTim

CowboyTed wrote: »

Low density is a big issue... It is 10 Km from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit.
That is the same as O'Connell St to Sandyford in Dublin...

10km is very managable for a daily commute. But you're also picking the far ends of the city, there are huge numbers doing even shorter commutes and trips into town/shops/cafes so we should scrap any future plans for them too?

CowboyTed wrote: »

Galway is hilly when compared with many cities just compare it.

OK, well let's use your own example above.

O'Connell Street to Sandyford is 91m of climbing.
Knocknacarra to Ballybrit is 49m of climbing, almost half.

You're talking out of your exhaust...

at1withmyself

TwoWheeledTim wrote: »

OK, well let's use your own example above.

O'Connell Street to Sandyford is 91m of climbing.
Knocknacarra to Ballybrit is 49m of climbing, almost half.

You're talking out of your exhaust...

Thanks for adding this, I have cycled in many cities (and the non cities) around Ireland and would never say Galway has many hills! I have no idea how someone can use that as a negative, the weather I get as an challenge but the so called hills!

Why can't Galway have upgrades for Public Transport, Cycling & Walking. Why must we chose one, the idea is to update them all simultaneously. Absolutely pointless arguing against each other. Doesn't everyone here ultimately want the same thing to reduce Galway Traffic, well then its the combination that will achieve this!