Galway traffic

what_traffic

biko wrote: »

When the only tool you have is a bike, then every problem tends to look like a bike path.

Sounds Deep but actually its a meaningless statement from BIKEO.
Sorry BIKO.

CowboyTed

LostDuck wrote: »

Ah, stopped reading after this.

Are you saying there was no plan back then...

There was and I wasn't the only one to read it...

I even checked with a friend...

So you are happy that there was no plan or strategy until now?

I said I read it...
I am just showing that there is no realistic target. Prove me wrong, please....

I am saying that spending money without any realistic target or plan is irresponsible...

LostDuck

Sure cycling is already at 94% share.*





* according to an official report which my mate and I definitely saw

xckjoo

CowboyTed wrote: »

Are you saying there was no plan back then...

There was and I wasn't the only one to read it...

I even checked with a friend...

So you are happy that there was no plan or strategy until now?

I said I read it...
I am just showing that there is no realistic target. Prove me wrong, please....

I am saying that spending money without any realistic target or plan is irresponsible...

I think peoples issue is that you keep saying they had a target of 20% cycling and were working towards this when that never happened. I've already explained how you probably made that assumption but you ignored that and kept trumpeting this mythical 20%.

I don't think anyone is saying they have targets (except for yourself). We can probably all agree that spending money without a realistic target or plan is irresponsible. But how do you expect to have a discussion on something, or propose better alternatives if you keep trying to jam in erroneous info and then cast things to fit this incorrect narrative?

CowboyTed

Deleted User wrote: »

A consultancy group in The Netherlands is conducting a survey on transport in Galway to help identify how we might solve some issues towards more sustainable options.

Figured folks in this thread would be interested in taking part

Link

Filled it out...

It is very screwed towards cycling

Q. I much do love cycling?
A. Very Much
B. Loads
C. I dream of cycling...

Only one selection on
Weather
Low Pop Density

Nothing about Terrain... Well they are from a flat country..

CowboyTed

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sure.

But this one is so poor, it's a joke.

Unanswerable questions - like Noxx's above, or the "when you hear motorist in Galway .. tick the words you think" with no option for "None of these".

Obvious missing options eg what deters you from cycling - no option for lack of secure bicycle storage at home and / or work.

A blatantly misleading survey title (it's not about mobility in Galway, it's about bicycles).

Failed to disclose who commissioned the research.






Someone should get about 40% for their college project.

Agreed...

Reading the last 10 pages of this thread gives more insight...

LostDuck

Agreed that survey is very skewed and poorly designed. Reads like a school project.

CowboyTed

xckjoo wrote: »

The problem is that just building new roads creates what's known as "induced demand" for its usage. Put simply, if you build a fancy new road, more people will drive because they see a fancy new road. We might see a temporary drop in traffic issues but it'll eventually rebound worse than before.
That's the general problem with building new roads. The problems (IMO) specific to this road is that 1) the report on the proposed road found that it would cater to a very small number of people (low population density west of the city and very few cross city trips in a day), 2) the major bottlenecks aren't being addressed and we'll probably just get people to them faster, 3) the plan literally states that they expect it to cause a drop in the usage of other forms of transport.

If the plan was to build this road and then remove private car usage from the rest of the city I'd be okay with it. But it's just going to be Quincentary Pt.2 and continue the regressive thinking and planning that's gotten us where we are today.

At the Moment 32k people live in Connemara and 40k (approx) live on the west side of the city.
That is 72k people effectively using one/two bridges to access the rest of the country...

Please explain how you would expect a person in Spideal to goto Kilkenny?

How do you commute to work in Hospital from Corofin?

Headford to IDA park in Dangan?

Moycullen to Parkmore?

There is an unused bile lane from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit... Would it not be prudent to find out why it is empty and ways to fill it?

CowboyTed

LostDuck wrote: »

He was sent here by the motor industry to build up a hatred for cyclists.

Sure Cyclists do that all one there own.

They think they are saving the planet all on there own from evil motorists..

There is nothing smug in that thinking..

CowboyTed

LostDuck wrote: »

Sure cycling is already at 94% share.*





* according to an official report which my mate and I definitely saw

LostDuck...

The 20% point I was making at the time was to say there is no realistic target... By the way it was the City Council not cyclists that wrote down 20%...

My point is there is no realistic target today either...

The simple way of implementing change is to write down a target, agree on it and then figure out way to achieve that... You succeed or fail, learn from the failure and agree a new approach.

At the moment we see no target... we see plans for infrastructure but we targets or goals...
They have not written down what they want to achieve...

This maybe simple but it is kind of important.

what_traffic

CowboyTed wrote: »

At the Moment 32k people live in Connemara and 40k (approx) live on the west side of the city.
That is 72k people effectively using one/two bridges to access the rest of the country...

Please explain how you would expect a person in Spideal to goto Kilkenny?

How do you commute to work in Hospital from Corofin?

Headford to IDA park in Dangan?

Moycullen to Parkmore?

There is an unused bile lane from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit... Would it not be prudent to find out why it is empty and ways to fill it?

That would be once in BLUE moon, most people who are coming from Spideal are going into Galway City on a daily basis.
The rest of your scenarios are good. These really are everyday scenarios for many people who are coming into the City.

Re prudence - already explained. Remove MULTI-LANE Roundabouts along it would be a start. Love how this "Bike Lane" is the Silver Bullet for ya, we dont even have a cross City Bus Service.........

CowboyTed

xckjoo wrote: »

I think peoples issue is that you keep saying they had a target of 20% cycling and were working towards this when that never happened. I've already explained how you probably made that assumption but you ignored that and kept trumpeting this mythical 20%.

I don't think anyone is saying they have targets (except for yourself). We can probably all agree that spending money without a realistic target or plan is irresponsible. But how do you expect to have a discussion on something, or propose better alternatives if you keep trying to jam in erroneous info and then cast things to fit this incorrect narrative?

We have to first agree with what we want first... We haven't even got people on the same page on that...

They just announce plans like the goals have been already agreed... This is why there is so much confusion (Dyke Rd is just another example)....

It is simple in project management speak... We have not agreed on the requirements and already building the solution...

CowboyTed

CowboyTed wrote: »

The 20% point I was making at the time was to say there is no realistic target... By the way it was the City Council not cyclists that wrote down 20%...

That number was never written anywhere as a target by the council, its a figment of your imagination

biko

biko wrote: »

When the only tool you have is a bike, then every problem tends to look like a bike path.

Yep, no need for protected cycling infrastructure

https://twitter.com/hevehan/status/1306162418800889856

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8hDuvMM8KY

https://twitter.com/yascaoimhin/status/1298527182097199104

https://streamable.com/5k9b2f

https://streamable.com/foxp74

https://streamable.com/mlnii7

Cyclists are asking for too damn much!

CowboyTed

what_traffic wrote: »

That would be once in BLUE moon, most people who are coming from Spideal are going into Galway City on a daily basis.
The rest of your scenarios are good. These really are everyday scenarios for many people who are coming into the City.

Re prudence - already explained. Remove MULTI-LANE Roundabouts along it would be a start. Love how this "Bike Lane" is the Silver Bullet for ya, we dont even have a cross City Bus Service.........

Spideal one was just random journeys example.

There will be only one Multilane roundabout left after Headford one is changed... That would make it hardly an excuse for that low usage...

Bus Service
(Sorry wrote this and discovered I forgot to post.)
Set a target for bus numbers, average bus trips per day? participation rate.

I think what we should do for a bus service is trial a bus route(s). Lets take up Salmon Weir Bridge, Eglington St. Giving a bus lane across from Knocknacarra/Salthill, Hospital, University, Eglington St, Eyre Square, College Rd, Renmore/Ballybrit/Parkmore... Same bus back and over, no changes

The rent a bus fleet for three months with option for 6 months. Pick a date to implement and market the crap out of it... Advertise heavily. Trial for 3 months with a review every month. 3 months then review numbers and consider an extension. Don't be afraid of failure or correcting issues as you go along.
If happy after 6 months make permanent.

E-Bike
Lobby Irish government to increase power to 750W and max speed of 32km (this is the US standard so easy to source bikes).
For cargo bikes that should can be increased even further with same max speed.
This would mean 17min commute from Sheridans to Boston Scientific without peddling.
The reason higher is because we have a low population density and hilly citiess (compared to continental Europe, look at Cork)

Bike Lanes
The stupidly of the bike lane for the car parking can not be underestimated...
Lets start, a lot of people drive to the prom get out of the car and walk it.. It is free, one of the most popular activities in Galway, they generally do it either on the way home from work or in non peak traffic hours so they have little traffic impact. If the car parking is taken away then people just park in residential areas instead (like they did during COVID).

It is unclear what cycle lane on the prom is for? Is it leisure or transport
During the bad weather the Prom last place you would cycle as it is very exposed.

Dr Mannix Rd runs parallel, is sheltered gives access to 5/6 schools, is wide in many parts and actually has people living there.
All that did is create very negative feelings towards cycling...
So there are better transport options.

So leisure must be the reason but why not try and get a dedicated cycle/running lane around Rusheen bay... It could be 3 miles around and connected to the prom. That would be fantastic and could have 5 km runs on weekends(it is about 3 miles around)...

LostDuck

CowboyTed wrote: »

By the way it was the City Council not cyclists that wrote down 20%...

That remains unverified... please stop repeating it.

CowboyTed wrote: »

The 20% point I was making at the time was to say there is no realistic target...

What irks me with your line of thinking is you seem to have a default that 100% of budget should be spent on motorist or other infrastructure and cyclists have to plead for some kind of charity handout. (is this the flawed "road tax" thinking?)

Millions are spent on road projects designed primarily for motorists. As a % of road users, cycling receives a much smaller % of the budget! So the numbers may not be high, but the spend is tiny. It has been identified as a more sustainable option so the % spend should actually be higher than the % share to push on future usage.

The targets we should be setting are % reduction in average journey times, not modal shares. We should be aimed at moving people not vehicles. Public transport will do a lot of the heavy lifting to make this happen.

CowboyTed

LostDuck wrote: »

That remains unverified... please stop repeating it.



What irks me with your line of thinking is you seem to have a default that 100% of budget should be spent on motorist or other infrastructure and cyclists have to plead for some kind of charity handout. (is this the flawed "road tax" thinking?)

Millions are spent on road projects designed primarily for motorists. As a % of road users, cycling receives a much smaller % of the budget! So the numbers may not be high, but the spend is tiny. It has been identified as a more sustainable option so the % spend should actually be higher than the % share to push on future usage.

The targets we should be setting are % reduction in average journey times, not modal shares. We should be aimed at moving people not vehicles. Public transport will do a lot of the heavy lifting to make this happen.

The participation rates have to be considered.

What we saw is westside becoming a building site for two years to yield an empty bus lane and cycle lane... There was the investment

Can you tell me were the budget is spent for 100% motorists? Do Buses not use roads... Buses and Cyclists are the ones that don't want to share, cars have been sharing and paying for the pleasure.
Can you tell us the last Car Only road that has been built?

I have shown you the cycle lane that is on one of the most heavily used routes in the city and it is generally empty... Rather than saying Why? You are saying More!

LostDuck

CowboyTed wrote: »

This would mean 17min commute from Sheridans to Boston Scientific without peddling.

You'll also need to change the law on the pedal assist only requirement! You can tip along nicely with the current 25kph on 250W. An increase would be welcome but I think we're aligned to an EU standard at the moment?

CowboyTed

CowboyTed wrote: »

Rather than saying Why?

"Why" has been answered multiple times in response to your posts, you just choose to ignore the responses as they don't fit with your narrative.

xckjoo

CowboyTed wrote: »

We have to first agree with what we want first... We haven't even got people on the same page on that...

They just announce plans like the goals have been already agreed... This is why there is so much confusion (Dyke Rd is just another example)....

It is simple in project management speak... We have not agreed on the requirements and already building the solution...

Does project management not also include reading the available information and basing your plans on the available facts? Or is just about making up targets based on your gut feelings and steamrolling ahead?

what_traffic

CowboyTed wrote: »

I have shown you the cycle lane that is on one of the most heavily used routes in the city and it is generally empty... Rather than saying Why? You are saying More!

Your trolling us now on this Silver bullet idea of yours! One Bike Lane to rule them all!
Your thinking like a MOTORIST here / Galway City Council Roads Engineer, just because Council converted a SERVICE Duct into a bike path along by the N6 Dual Carraigway - which of course is heavily used by motorists. It has 4 LANES
Remember all the Council did here was throw up a few signs on. Now you expect to see a constant PELETON of people cycling on it ignoring the fact it is on a heavily trafficed (pollution, noise, difficult junctions to negotiate, very little permability options onto it).

CowboyTed

LostDuck wrote: »

You'll also need to change the law on the pedal assist only requirement! You can tip along nicely with the current 25kph on 250W. An increase would be welcome but I think we're aligned to an EU standard at the moment?

It is European Directive which a few countries have moved a bit on... Denmark have it up to 45km/hr must be 15 and have helmet...

The main problem is the 250W limit... It is barely obeyed anyway with companies fiddling with the motors anyway... So just for hills in galway (Taylors, Threadneedle, ...), Cork is hell entirely...
Also the cargo bikes could be interesting as well...

CowboyTed

xckjoo wrote: »

Does project management not also include reading the available information and basing your plans on the available facts? Or is just about making up targets based on your gut feelings and steamrolling ahead?

Of course it does, at this stage 'gut feeling' would be more positive than what we got(still don't use gut feeling)... We don't seem to have a target or a target has not been communicated never mind agreed...

CowboyTed

what_traffic wrote: »

Your trolling us now on this Silver bullet idea of yours! One Bike Lane to rule them all!
You're thinking like a MOTORIST here / Galway City Council Roads Engineer, just because Council converted a SERVICE Duct into a bike path along by the N6 Dual Carriageway - which of course is heavily used by motorists. It has 4 LANES
Remember all the Council did here was throw up a few signs on. Now you expect to see a constant PELETON of people cycling on it ignoring the fact it is on a heavily trafficked (pollution, noise, difficult junctions to negotiate, very little permeability options onto it).
]

Knocknacarra to Ballybrit is a fully dedicated cycle lane in both directions... It has only two roundabouts...

Westside took 2 years to complete and that gave a Cycle and Bus lane... Motorists got nothing but road works... This was one of the longest roadworks in Galway history and it was for a cycle & bus lane.

Maybe they need more maintenance but they are purpose built cycle paths. What else could be expected?

As for the service duct, so what... What is problem with that?

xckjoo

CowboyTed wrote: »

Of course it does, at this stage 'gut feeling' would be more positive than what we got(still don't use gut feeling)... We don't seem to have a target or a target has not been communicated never mind agreed...

But you don't seem to have read any of the available info (M6 reports, GCC transport strategy, etc) so how are you going to come up with realistic targets?

CowboyTed

xckjoo wrote: »

But you don't seem to have read any of the available info (M6 reports, GCC transport strategy, etc) so how are you going to come up with realistic targets?

Yes I have... Now I may have missed it but can you find an objective targets in those documents...

Dublin cycleway reducing traffic in the area - council

http://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/0924/1167238-cycleway-dublin/

Imagine that, protected cycling infrastructure driving increases in cycling and reduction in car traffic.

CowboyTed

Deleted User wrote: »

Dublin cycleway reducing traffic in the area - council

http://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/0924/1167238-cycleway-dublin/

Imagine that, protected cycling infrastructure driving increases in cycling and reduction in car traffic.

"He said on the busiest day, which is Sunday, journey time for cars travelling from the city direction to Dún Laoghaire has dropped...."

When has Sunday been the traffic problem day (match in Pearse Stadium aside)....

By the Way, Dublin has a bypass... Maybe that is why the busy day is Sunday?

Johnny_BravoIII

CowboyTed wrote: »

"He said on the busiest day, which is Sunday, journey time for cars travelling from the city direction to Dún Laoghaire has dropped...."

When has Sunday been the traffic problem day (match in Pearse Stadium aside)....

By the Way, Dublin has a bypass... Maybe that is why the busy day is Sunday?

Also Dublin is sunnier, has less hills, the people there have stronger legs and nicer bikes. It just wouldn't work in Galway.

xckjoo

CowboyTed wrote: »

Yes I have... Now I may have missed it but can you find an objective targets in those documents...

I don't believe you've read anything. You're the only one that was claiming they had a target and refusing to provide a source for your claim. If you were my project manager I'd walk out the door and advise the owner to do the same