Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

CelticRambler

boggerman1 wrote: »

So they are gone and watching sky news it’s a really classy event that’s going on in parliament square.the smugness of the leavers is on full show.

Some Yorkshire bloke on Sky: "Tomorro' mornin' - when there's no plague of locusts, the sky 'asn't fallen in, house prices 'aven't risen, there's food, there's medicines, they'll realise that Project Fear were exactly wor it woz: Project Fear"

OK, that's enough Brexit for me tonight! :pac:

SantaCruz

CelticRambler wrote: »

That article has nothing to do with the other one, which only reported that some parts of rich EU member states are not as rich as others (based on creative accounting) and has since been used over and over and over to claim that underperforming areas of the UK are actually poor, and not much better than recently joined Eastern European members. Every time someone cites it, it gives Brexiters and their ilk just cause to say "you're talking utter tosh!"

It's not comparing to Eastern Europe though, is it? It's comparing the UK to Northern Europe.

You know, Germany, Belgium, Scandanavia, Ireland?

Frank Bullitt

MrMusician18 wrote: »

While what happens to the UK will be interesting, I'm more interested in how the EU reacts. There really ought to be a period of reflection in the EU at what were the causes of this loss of a large member state.

Yes some of the pressures were down to domestic peculiarities within the UK such as a uniquely hostile media but the EU needs to examine it's own failures in the process too.

If anything, that is what the EU has been doing while the Brits throw cups at each other in Westminster. They have been very vocal of this being a failure of the EU as much as the vote itself.

My best guess would be, you will see how the EU really works with an outside nation as a trade partner in the negotiations, and we will hear all about it from the same people who wanted out of the EU when they blame the same EU for being unfair etc. Just watch.

CelticRambler

SantaCruz wrote: »

It's not comparing to Eastern Europe though, is it? It's comparing the UK to Northern Europe.

You know, Germany, Belgium, Scandanavia, Ireland?

Exactly - the richest countries in the world have not-so-rich bits in them. What's surprising about that? If you drill down into the data, you'll find that Cork is was wealthier than Dublin back at the turn of the century, which is the period to which the data relates.

Britain is not a poor country, and the poorer areas of Britain are not poor even by European standards. That study is completely and utterly irrelevant to Brexit and Britain's economic standing; and besides, it's been debunked as serious research numerous times since it first appeared nearly 15 years ago.

Christy42

sid waddell wrote: »

A nice family night out, eh? They better get those gulags prepared.

https://twitter.com/peterjukes/status/1223381207045505024

Are the traitors people with different political opinions than themselves? That seems pretty terrifying that they want to lock people up for having a different political opinion

How far they have sunk

murphaph

That was quick lol..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

Indestructable

The remainers in the UK have a hell of a lot to answer for tonight. Their useless, apathetic, whingey leaders are as complicit in this **** up as anyone on the leave side.

The shambolic resistance is so frustrating that I am glad they will reap what they allowed to be sown.

Bit cynical

Christy42 wrote: »

Are the traitors people with different political opinions than themselves? That seems pretty terrifying that they want to lock people up for having a different political opinion

How far they have sunk

Well, I think trying to sabotage a referendum result is something different to simply "having a different political opinion". However, that they should be jailed is over the top. And, of course, it is only a tiny minority using this kind of language.

murphaph

I hope the IDA is working on a "poach as many businesses from Britain as possible" strategy. Straight up competitors now.

SantaCruz

murphaph wrote: »

That was quick lol..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

Amusing to see that we are now the 1% who are native English speakers in the EU.

SantaCruz

Bit cynical wrote: »

Well, I think trying to sabotage a referendum result is something different to simply "having a different political opinion". However, that they should be jailed is over the top. And, of course, it is only a tiny minority using this kind of language.

Yeah. And the press, of course.

devnull

Bit cynical wrote: »

Well, I think trying to sabotage a referendum result is something different to simply "having a different political opinion". However, that they should be jailed is over the top. And, of course, it is only a tiny minority using this kind of language.

I agree that those who try to sabotage a result should be punished but despite Vote Leave doing just that by breaking the law nothing was done.

Best try another tack since only one side broke the law and only one side broke constitutional rules and it wasn't the remainers.

listermint

Bit cynical wrote: »

Well, I think trying to sabotage a referendum result is something different to simply "having a different political opinion". However, that they should be jailed is over the top. And, of course, it is only a tiny minority using this kind of language.

Stop with this utter drivel.

The so called referendum was absolutely blitzed with foreign influence dark money dark activities and incredible amounts of fake propaganda. But alas you've never had any issues with that. Sure it was all legit.


Tiresome , obvious and boring.

Mr.Nice Guy

Nicola Sturgeon setting the tone for the next few years:

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1223380744833261570

I believe she's right too.

Scots must be particularly sore about this. Voted to remain by a higher percentage than even NI did, yet unlike NI ended up with no special status, and don't possess the automatic right to a passport that even the most staunch NI unionist is entitled to.

If Brexit begins to bite they will be its most vocal critics.

Retr0gamer

While the Brexiteers celebrate the multinational I work for is busy pulling it's business interests out of the UK.

Well done lads.

reslfj

murphaph wrote: »

That was quick lol..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

Missing the new number of MEPs per EU27 member state.

Total number of MEPs is now 705.

Lars

MrMusician18

murphaph wrote: »

I hope the IDA is working on a "poach as many businesses from Britain as possible" strategy. Straight up competitors now.

They were always competitors, it's just that there is a large difference now.

MrMusician18

Retr0gamer wrote: »

While the Brexiteers celebrate the multinational I work for is busy pulling it's business interests out of the UK.

Well done lads.

A couple of people have posted similar over the different threads we've had over the years but none have ever named companies that are doing this.

I understand the reluctance to name the companies doing this if you're working for them, but you'd expect people to be able to name the former companies they were working for at it even with just natural churn.

sid waddell

More of the welcoming family atmosphere from London:

https://twitter.com/jeggit/status/1223406054421204996?s=21

MrMusician18

CelticRambler wrote: »

Exactly - the richest countries in the world have not-so-rich bits in them. What's surprising about that? If you drill down into the data, you'll find that Cork is was wealthier than Dublin back at the turn of the century, which is the period to which the data relates.

Britain is not a poor country, and the poorer areas of Britain are not poor even by European standards. That study is completely and utterly irrelevant to Brexit and Britain's economic standing; and besides, it's been debunked as serious research numerous times since it first appeared nearly 15 years ago.

Rather than thinking in absolute terms, it's more important to look at it in relative terms the UK hosted both the richest and the poorest regions in the Western Union. While the poorest areas weren't absolutely poor the relative divide between them and London was a chasm.

It's these kind of relative relationships that lead to resentment. People see the young, the good jobs being sucked out of their region, and consequently the services there are left to wither. This drives a feedback loop of endless decline and envy at the South East.

Of course, Brexit won't change any of this. The City spivs will find a way to profit from the change, the Tories will find a way to cut public services that hit these regions hardest and the former industrial towns will be left to rust away. Boston to Barnsley they will be just as depressed next year, and the year after and so on.

And even though no good can come of this endeavor, the UK will never rejoin. I suspect the country won't even exist in 10 years. The next recession is all but certain to deliver Scottish secession.

CruelCoin

Bit cynical wrote: »

Well, I think trying to sabotage a referendum result is something different to simply "having a different political opinion". However, that they should be jailed is over the top. And, of course, it is only a tiny minority using this kind of language.

I do believe that Bercow should have been jailed for that stunt where he facilitated the ramming of all 3 "readings" of an opposition bill through in 3 hours.
Blatant abuse of the system, and not even trying to hide his bias towards the end of his tenure.

beggars_bush

Now that the general UK citizen cannot blame the EU anymore for their ills, I wonder who the next target will be?

Immigrant communities in the UK?

CruelCoin

CruelCoin wrote: »

I do believe that Bercow should have been jailed for that stunt where he facilitated the ramming of all 3 "readings" of an opposition bill through in 3 hours.
Blatant abuse of the system, and not even trying to hide his bias towards the end of his tenure.

And Johnson jailed for his prorogation attempt?

timetogo1

beggars_bush wrote: »

Now that the general UK citizen cannot blame the EU anymore for their ills, I wonder who the next target will be?

Immigrant communities in the UK?

Why can't they blame the EU? Id say it'd be a handy scapegoat.
At least they might start blaming the US too when they realise what negotiating a trade deal means, especially with Trump.

CelticRambler

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Rather than thinking in absolute terms, it's more important to look at it in relative terms the UK hosted both the richest and the poorest regions in the Western Union. While the poorest areas weren't absolutely poor the relative divide between them and London was a chasm.

It's these kind of relative relationships that lead to resentment. People see the young, the good jobs being sucked out of their region, and consequently the services there are left to wither. This drives a feedback loop of endless decline and envy at the South East.

And this applies to just about every developed economy. There are always rich and poor areas in any country, no matter it size. Arbitrary lines are drawn on a map and defined as "regions" for the purposes of reporting, but immediately lump pockets of wealth under a blanket of poverty ... or vice versa.

I don't disagree that GB politics in respect of these GB regions contributed to the protest vote against the EU, whose result we saw last night; but this morning's news on French TV is highlighting the death of medium-altitude alpine communities due to climate change (not enough snow to make the ski-season viable, so the young have left and the services have withered [juxtaposed with a report about some communes heading into the local elections without any candidates standing]). The same thing has been happening all across the world since humans first started living in organised groups.

Bit cynical

devnull wrote: »

I agree that those who try to sabotage a result should be punished but despite Vote Leave doing just that by breaking the law nothing was done.

Best try another tack since only one side broke the law and only one side broke constitutional rules and it wasn't the remainers.

However I did not say the remain side broke the law and nor did I say they should be jailed. Removing many of them from parliament via the GE was the course of action taken by the electorate and I don't think it should go beyond that.

Bit cynical

beggars_bush wrote: »

Now that the general UK citizen cannot blame the EU anymore for their ills, I wonder who the next target will be?

Immigrant communities in the UK?

I don't think blaming the EU was ever that big a thing among the average Brit despite it being a common tabloid theme. To the extent it was, it will go back to blaming the Tories or Labour (or whoever is in power).

careless sherpa

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Erm what it shows is that out of the richest countries most of the most poorest regions are in UK, and unfortunately same regions voted to screw themselves over despite being recipients of eu aid.

What happens to all of the EU development programmes currently operational in Britain. I imagine they will continue to run until the end of their programmes and then cease or do they shut up shop now. Will be a lot if job losses in those programmes

Field east

Gintonious wrote: »

If anything, that is what the EU has been doing while the Brits throw cups at each other in Westminster. They have been very vocal of this being a failure of the EU as much as the vote itself.

My best guess would be, you will see how the EU really works with an outside nation as a trade partner in the negotiations, and we will hear all about it from the same people who wanted out of the EU when they blame the same EU for being unfair etc. Just watch.

I sincerely hope that there is a clear and very transparent difference between terms and conditions re trade , etc, with the UK and EU member states and that that difference is wide enough to discourage any current member state from leaving the union - otherwise what’s the point in staying on. The UK better understand this and not expect anything else. That should be an ‘opening statement’ at the beginning of every meeting re trade negotiations and suchlike.

Field east

Field east wrote: »

I sincerely hope that there is a clear and very transparent difference between terms and conditions re trade , etc, with the UK and EU member states and that that difference is wide enough to discourage any current member state from leaving the union - otherwise what’s the point in staying on. The UK better understand this and not expect anything else. That should be an ‘opening statement’ at the beginning of every meeting re trade negotiations and suchlike.

It won't be anything like it. The four pillars are the free movement of goods, services, capital and labour. The British economy is based on services but they won't sign up to free movement of labour.

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/01/31/a-new-dawn-for-europe/

How close that partnership will be depends on decisions that are still to be taken. Because every choice has a consequence. Without the free movement of people, there can be no free movement of capital, goods and services. Without a level playing field on environment, labour, taxation and state aid, there cannot be the highest quality access to the single market. Without being a member, you cannot retain the benefits of membership.