Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Enough of the immigrant/expat stuff please.

Peregrinus

Deleted.

54and56

BoJo's happy clappy cabinet reshuffle has descended into farce with Sajid Javid resigning in protest at being told to sack all his advisers because Dominic Cummings didn't like them.

These are the guys who are going to do several FTA's with larger countries/trading blocks with better equipped and more experienced negotiating teams.

What could possibly go wrong?

The wheels are beginning to come off earlier than I had expected given the majority BoJo has to play with.

Taking back control eh?

Christy42

They have a budget due in several weeks and they have just lost the chancellor and his advisors.

Complete farce. Also interesting how the unelected Cummings seems to have taken over the supposedly very democratic UK.

Joe_ Public

Rishi Sunak already appointed so seems more of a No.10 plot than a rebellion. Sunak wont rock any boats, Johnson and Cummings now have effective total control over the treasury. Another victory for abject political mediocrity.

Enzokk

Here is a link to the story about Javid and the others who have been sacked.

Cabinet reshuffle: Sajid Javid resigns as chancellor

In other reshuffle moves:

Northern Ireland Secretary Julian Smith and Business Secretary Andrea Leadsom have been sacked

Housing Minister Esther McVey and Environment Secretary Theresa Villiers are also out of the government

Attorney General Geoffrey Cox, who attended cabinet, was asked to resign by the PM

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1227889633834524674?s=20

Suella Braverman tipped to become new AG.

Edit:

Here is the potential new AG talking about Project fear and the Divorce Bill.

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/850110198752591872?s=20

There seems to be no qualms appointing knowing liars to cabinet as the biggest liar is in the biggest job of all.

Rjd2

Smith is a big loss for the North especially as we don't know what mediocrity will replace him. No idea what he did to merit getting binned.

Water John

Smith is a great loss, even worked hard in NI during the UK GE.

Joe_ Public

Rjd2 wrote: »

Smith is a big loss for the North especially as we don't know what mediocrity will replace him. No idea what he did to merit getting binned.

Was he a remainer in 2016? I think he was anyway. Very petty to use that as a basis for removing him, considering he has backed brexit ever since, but i cant think of any other logical explanation.

Strazdas

Rjd2 wrote: »

Smith is a big loss for the North especially as we don't know what mediocrity will replace him. No idea what he did to merit getting binned.

Tommie Gorman thinks it might be connected to the legacy issues of British troops in NI. Apparently Johnson wasn't happy with his stance on this.

boggerman1

Rjd2 wrote: »

Smith is a big loss for the North especially as we don't know what mediocrity will replace him. No idea what he did to merit getting binned.

Got too much credit for Stormont coming back.no doubt bo jo and the “genius” Cummings weren’t happy

54and56

strandroad wrote: »

The original meaning of expat is someone sent temporarily abroad (expatriated) by their company or institution to serve in its local branch, be it a global bank or an embassy. Usually living in a compound or villa with next to no contact with local daily life, children educated privately in dedicated schools etc. Part of a clearly defined milieu with people coming and going as their contracts end.

Anyone else claiming to be an expat, whether it's an Essex plumber in Spain or a TEFL teacher from Limerick in South Korea is just a bog standard immigrant with notions...

This all day long. I've been an Ex-Pat, I went on a 3 year contract to Asia, brought my family, lived there and returned to Ireland at the end of the contract.

Whilst I was there I encountered people who described themselves as "Ex-Pats", mostly people from UK/US/Aus/NZ/Irl who had moved lock stock and barrel with no pre-defined return date "home" who still liked to describe themselves as Ex-Pats either through pure snobbishness or because they wanted the best of both worlds i.e. still living a British/Irish/American life in a bubble surrounded by other "Ex-Pats" without any attempt to integrate locally whilst benefiting from low living costs and better climate etc. Doesn't matter whether they are working full time or retired living off a pension they are immigrants not Ex-Pats but don't like using the label "immigrant" as it conjures up images of poor African/Middle Eastern refugees.

Enzokk

So it seems that there is unease from the media on the resignation of Javid. It is an obvious power grab from Cummings and Johnson, seeing that the special advisors for both No. 10 and No. 11 will now be combined and will fall under Cummings.

https://twitter.com/SpenceLivermore/status/1227932958813671430?s=20

It is also noteworthy that had Blair done this in 1997 then it could have happened that the UK would have joined the euro. It has been seen that the Chancellor was always there and able to let the PM know if they were wrong, but this will not be the case now.

As for the new Chancellor, well he is a former hedge fund manager and is married to the daughter of a billionaire. He is also not shy of stating lies it seems,

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1201220516029386760?s=20

Lastly this is the opinion of a trade negotiator on the forthcoming talks and what could happen,

https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1227927312106246144?s=20

Basically as long as your ministers know the message and is willing to defend their position and there is stability in government it can make up for a lack of skill of your negotiators. The UK seems to have tossed out that advantage they may have had.

ancapailldorcha

Cummings is widely detesting around Whitehall and Westminster as far as I know. It'll be interesting to see what the limits on his power are. I think this makes Javid the shortest-serving Chancellor in British history and his primary achievement seems to be unveiling a coin. It's a pathetic end to the tenure of a holder of one of the great four offices of state.

Rjd2

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Was he a remainer in 2016? I think he was anyway. Very petty to use that as a basis for removing him, considering he has backed brexit ever since, but i cant think of any other logical explanation.

He was but then voted for every Brexit deal he could and from all accounts was quite ruthless trying to get the May deal through.

Like Gyimah, Gauke and Stewart another competent decent ministers gone.

The jury out on Javid but he is obviously more qualified than Sunak.

Give the job to Liz Truss, **** it. :rolleyes:

RobMc59

54and56 wrote: »

BoJo's happy clappy cabinet reshuffle has descended into farce with Sajid Javid resigning in protest at being told to sack all his advisers because Dominic Cummings didn't like them.

These are the guys who are going to do several FTA's with larger countries/trading blocks with better equipped and more experienced negotiating teams.

What could possibly go wrong?

The wheels are beginning to come off earlier than I had expected given the majority BoJo has to play with.

Taking back control eh?

It's very depressing,bo jo in Westminster and mo lo mcDonald soon to be lording it in the Dail-who would have believed it.

Akrasia

Enzokk wrote: »

Here is a link to the story about Javid and the others who have been sacked.

Cabinet reshuffle: Sajid Javid resigns as chancellor



https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1227889633834524674?s=20

Suella Braverman tipped to become new AG.

Edit:

Here is the potential new AG talking about Project fear and the Divorce Bill.

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/850110198752591872?s=20

There seems to be no qualms appointing knowing liars to cabinet as the biggest liar is in the biggest job of all.

This is a worrying indication for what Cummings will do to the civil service.

His call for wierdos and eccentrics to apply for top jobs is being matched by his insistence on appointing sycophants and loyalists to top jobs in the cabinet, and also insisting on deciding who their advisors can be...

Joe_ Public

Rjd2 wrote: »

He was but then voted for every Brexit deal he could and from all accounts was quite ruthless trying to get the May deal through.

Like Gyimah, Gauke and Stewart another competent decent ministers gone.

The jury out on Javid but he is obviously more qualified than Sunak.

Give the job to Liz Truss, **** it. :rolleyes:

Liz "pork markets" Truss! Yikes!

Smith did back brexit but he was one of the most prominent voices against leaving with no deal - certainly on the front bench anyway - and I'm guessing that is the root of his sacking. Not sure if that goes for cox too.

Sam Russell

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Liz "pork markets" Truss! Yikes!

Smith did back brexit but he was one of the most prominent voices against leaving with no deal - certainly on the front bench anyway - and I'm guessing that is the root of his sacking. Not sure if that goes for cox too.

I heard a line that Smith's lack of opposition to the trials of ex-soldiers being tried for a few of the murders in NI might have something to do with it.

RobMc59

Sam Russell wrote: »

I heard a line that Smith's lack of opposition to the trials of ex-soldiers being tried for a few of the murders in NI might have something to do with it.

It's a good job anne marie trevelyan already has a job,cummings probably would have liked to have her as secretary for NI and Johnson probably wouldn't know the significance of that name.

Dr Strange

So it's Brandon Lewis now, the new NI Secretary of State.

He was the previously Minister of State for Security and Deputy for EU Exit and No Deal Preparation.

https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2020/0213/1114964-uk-cabinet-reshuffle/

Thargor

Wow Cox went to bat for Boris plenty of times, defended proroguing and all that in parliament when Boris was in hiding, you'll remember his cringe inducing attempts at a John Bercrow style theatrical voice, and he still got canned, wonder what that's about. Probably Cummings just didn't like him. I missed the drama in this thread! I thought we'd be waiting a few months more.

Rjd2

Thargor wrote: »

Wow Cox went to bat for Boris plenty of times, defended proroguing and all that in parliament when Boris was in hiding, you'll remember his cringe inducing attempts at a John Bercrow style theatrical voice, and he still got canned, wonder what that's about. Probably Cummings just didn't like him. I missed the drama in this thread! I thought we'd be waiting a few months more.

I thought Cox acted like a child , but looking at Brexit twitter, they were loving it at the time. He is popular with leavers, he getting demoted is Boris cutting down a long term rival for the top job.

Enzokk

Not a lot of love for the Braverman appointment,

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1227972492171587585?s=20

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1227973172810649600?s=20

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1227973830821457920?s=20

https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1227967537972948993?s=20

https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1227980826358538240?s=20


As for the trade talks, it seems reality has met fantasy,

Brexit trade talks set for acrimonious start as UK accuses EU of being too tough

Brexit trade talks are getting off to an acrimonious start in Brussels, with the UK accusing the EU of “cherry-picking” and being too tough before negotiations have even begun in earnest.

Angry British officials have said the EU is trying to impose conditions on the UK that go far beyond the standard of a normal free trade agreement – after the European parliament overwhelmingly backed a no-nonsense negotiating mandate on Wednesday.

I think the headline is a little misleading, but the gist of the article is summed up in the following paragraphs,

But after MEPs followed member states in backing the approach at a sitting of the European parliament on Wednesday, a UK government source said: “Half the time the EU is telling us they are surprised we are not more ‘ambitious’ and the other half of the time they are saying we’re looking for too much.

“It’s now the EU who are cherry picking, suggesting ambition only where it suits them and adding obligations that go beyond a standard FTA. We are clear and consistent about what we want – not a bespoke or special FTA, but similar to the one the EU already has with Canada.”

The EU’s trade agreement with Canada, known as Ceta, does not abolish all tariffs and quotas with the EU, as the UK has said it is seeking – though it does get rid of most. But the agreement took years to negotiate, while Boris Johnson has said he wants to conclude an agreement by the end of the year.

The rhetoric from the UK is causing the problems, not the stance of the EU. Johnson has been talking about trade without checks but when the reality is explained it is not understood. The UK can have a Canada deal but they cannot have it in the few months they have given the FTA to be concluded because it is not a simple agreement.

As for the new NI Secretary, well I see trouble ahead for this island and the GFA.

https://twitter.com/EmmandJDeSouza/status/1227999160751853573?s=20

Lastly on Javid resigning, as this tweet states normally a move like this would end the PM. Johnson and Cummings seem to be untouchable and they will be coming for those journalists, Preston and Kuenssberg, that gave them free ads and propaganda during the election once they are done with those they deem hostile.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1228015043238866944?s=20

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1228017883835457538?s=20

I do see that Javid doesn't think much of the new Chancellor, seeing that "self respecting minister would accept" the conditions offered by the PM.

Joe_ Public

I also remember Cox contradicting Johnson during the leadership campaign when the latter first came out with his lie about no tariffs and doubt that went down well. Cox was also reportedly opposed to leaving without a deal though he never said so publicly. Hard to know what goes on behind the scenes but as with lewis, i suspect this had to be part of it. Though admittedly Matt Hancock was in the same scenario too and he's still there, so all guesswork at end of day.

serfboard

Enzokk wrote: »

As for the new Chancellor, well he is a former hedge fund manager

And before that he worked - where else? Goldman Sachs.

wexfordman2

sondagefaux wrote: »

A practical example of what leaving the EU is going to mean for UK business:

https://www.dragoneurotrade.com/shipping

This Dutch wholesaler has a minimum order of €750 for Switzerland, whereas it's only €100 for the EU.

In addition, its shipping charges to Norway (in the Single Market, not in the Customs Union) is €35.00, plus a €30.00 clearance fee, compared to only €12.50 for shipping to Sweden.

Similarly, shipping charges to Switzerland are far higher than for EU countries: €29.50 plus a €30.00 clearance fee for Switzerland, compared to only €11.95 for shipping to Poland.

Even if there's a trade deal between the UK and the EU, the requirement to make a far higher minimum order, and to pay far higher delivery charges (currently only €9.50 to the UK) than now, will mean that some UK businesses won't be able to import from this company.

Result? Less choice for UK consumers, less competition, higher prices.

Here is hoping we in Ireland don't get included in said costs, what with a lot of our current goods coming via or from suppliers in the UK.

Its important that we start switch to eu suppliers , even for our every day to day internet purchases etc.

Infini

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Here is hoping we in Ireland don't get included in said costs, what with a lot of our current goods coming via or from suppliers in the UK.

Its important that we start switch to eu suppliers , even for our every day to day internet purchases etc.

The simple truth is we need to fully disconnect ourselves from any reliance on UK imports and switch wholly to continental supply chains at the first oppertunity, these idiots have no clue what they're doing and will **** up badly, the whole thing is a scam and come the summer this is when the rot becomes the most apparent in the whole thing.

Capt'n Midnight

EU environment standards being watered down.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/12/these-three-post-brexit-bills-bulldoze-a-hole-through-environmental-protections

The environment bill, agriculture bill and fisheries bill replace the EU’s comprehensive framework directives, common agricultural policy and common fisheries policy.

All three bills contain major flaws that undermine the government’s claims. They leave gaps, fail on enforcement and oversight, open loopholes for future ministers to quietly backslide from existing standards, and turn what is currently a coherent system of long-term, stable regulation into a patchwork of competing and sometimes contradictory proposals.

The Terrorist Offenders Bill is being whisked through. Hopefully it won't be the thin edge of the wedge for other bills that water down citizens rights.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2019-20/terroristoffendersrestrictionofearlyrelease.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51482371

The government believes the changes will not fall foul of the UK's obligations under the European Convention of Human Rights, which outlaws signatory nations imposing longer sentences than those "applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed".

Spanish Eyes

Johnson is on a mission. But needs Cummings to achieve the results.

It is looking like an unelected person is in charge now, despite the fact that he wants every other adviser gone and is denigrating the Civil Service also.

The start of a regime.