Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

hotmail.com

prawnsambo wrote: »

And you're victim blaming. Because that's not a solution. It's just putting the onus on the victim to reduce their profile to avoid criminal activity being directed at them.


Would you tell them to stop using a mobile phone because they're getting abusive calls? Or change their number? That they have to publish? Or have some young intern take the calls instead? Are these your 'solutions'?

Are you not able to debate or something without saying I'm victim blaming?

prawnsambo

hotmail.com wrote: »

Are you not able to debate or something without saying I'm victim blaming?

Is this supposed to be a refutation of what I posted? You got called out for victim blaming and just can't admit that that's what you were doing. I think my case is rested.

hotmail.com

Be civil please.

Twister2

prawnsambo wrote: »

And you're victim blaming. Because that's not a solution. It's just putting the onus on the victim to reduce their profile to avoid criminal activity being directed at them.


Would you tell them to stop using a mobile phone because they're getting abusive calls? Or change their number? That they have to publish? Or have some young intern take the calls instead? Are these your 'solutions'?

Those are solutions lol

Just saying

prawnsambo

hotmail.com wrote: »

It's not rested because I discussed social media only.

And you've got hysterical and ridiculous and bordered on abusive.

You clearly haven't read anything I've posted. Or you can't understand it.

And if you think I'm being abusive, you know what to do. Good luck with that.

hotmail.com

prawnsambo wrote: »

You clearly haven't read anything I've posted. Or you can't understand it.

And if you think I'm being abusive, you know what to do. Good luck with that.

Sometimes people say stuff on here that you don't agree with. That's the whole point.

No need to get hysterical about it. We'll leave it at that.

prawnsambo

Twister2 wrote: »

Those are solutions lol

Just saying

But not thinking. A politician that isn't contactable can't do their job. So they may as well resign. And that's what's happening. Which is what we're discussing here.

Twister2

Twister2 wrote: »

If BJ gets his majority and can drive his deal through

What's his plan in relation to the predicted downturn this will cause

Will he slowplay the whole thing or what's their thinking, a bad brexit is bad for his legacy.

Anyone on this

Strazdas

Twister2 wrote: »

Anyone on this

Some observers suspect he actually wants No Deal at the end of the transition period. It would mean the rich would do well and the working class shafted, but this wouldn't bother him.

Legally he can go for No Deal at the end of the transition and nobody can stop him.

Leroy42

I find it staggering that after 9 years of crippling austerity, 3 years of total incompetence and party infighting, that the Tories even have a basis to believe that calling an election is good for them.

What more evidence does the UK voter need?

Strazdas

Leroy42 wrote: »

I find it staggering that after 9 years of crippling austerity, 3 years of total incompetence and party infighting, that the Tories even have a basis to believe that calling an election is good for them.

What more evidence does the UK voter need?

In any normal democracy, the government would be annihilated in such a GE but you have a brainwashed electorate being instructed by their puppet masters in the media that any sort of opposition govt would be even worse.

Capt'n Midnight

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Been hearing tory lies on morning. Going on about the "1bn being lost every month" they remain in EU. Or the "40 new hospitals" they claim to be building. All pure lies. The 20,000 "new" police officers. More spin. So much to get stuck into if they can get it away from brexit for a minute.

The UK is loosing £800m a week £3.2Bn a month , £80Bn a year, 2.5% hit to the economy because of economic uncertainty over Brexit.

The billion a month is small change when you realise they get much of it back and it's already knocked £6Bn and counting off the divorce bill that they'll have to pay if they ever want a free trade deal with the EU in the future.



Economic predictions from UK's National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) for GDP in 10 years time.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50219036

2% hit if there's extensions instead of a deal
3% hit with May's deal
3.5% hit with the Boris deal - that's £70Bn a year that won't be going to the NHS
5.6% hit with No Deal

These would be on top of the 2.5% hit due to uncertainty since the referendum.


2.5% hit already

Capt'n Midnight

Some good news , some stables are being bolted after the horses have fled.


Twitter will be banning political ads from Nov 22nd

Facebook has agreed to pay a £500,000 fine, the highest possible, to the Information Commissioner's Office over the Cambridge Analytica.

The loophole that allowed anonymous money for the leave campaign to be spent by the DUP in GB has been closed.


It will probably mean sneakier and dirtier tricks may be used ...

hotmail.com wrote: »

While not excusing any of the abuse, surely politicians could leave Twitter if they are getting a lot of abuse daily?

Surely politicians should leave politics if the newspapers brand them as traitors ?

Capt'n Midnight

Shelga wrote: »

The referendum last time was 2 words. This would be a vote on a very specific 600-word document, detailing how Leave would be enacted. If it passed this time, it would legitimise Brexit and shut Remainers up for once and for all.

The problem is that this just defines how you start the journey, it doesn't define the destination.

What happens after Brexit is still a mystery. And still means many things to many people..

Joe_ Public

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The UK is loosing £800m a week £3.2Bn a month , £80Bn a year, 2.5% hit to the economy because of economic uncertainty over Brexit.

The billion a month is small change when you realise they get much of it back and it's already knocked £6Bn and counting off the divorce bill that they'll have to pay if they ever want a free trade deal with the EU in the future.



Economic predictions from UK's National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) for GDP in 10 years time.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50219036

2% hit if there's extensions instead of a deal
3% hit with May's deal
3.5% hit with the Boris deal - that's £70Bn a year that won't be going to the NHS
5.6% hit with No Deal

These would be on top of the 2.5% hit due to uncertainty since the referendum.


2.5% hit already

Correct. That 1bn is small beer in the overall scheme of things, but its a very big lie on the scale of the phantom 350m for the nhs and one that would resonate with lots of gullible people. I actually think some tory mps might even be deluded enough to even believe it themselves, but the likes of johnson and raab know very well what they are doing whenever they trot it out, despite being corrected on it time and time again.

beggars_bush

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Correct. That 1bn is small beer in the overall scheme of things, but its a very big lie on the scale of the phantom 350m for the nhs and one that would resonate with lots of gullible people. I actually think some tory mps might even be deluded enough to even believe it themselves, but the likes of johnson and raab know very well what they are doing whenever they trot it out, despite being corrected on it time and time again.

Lying?

Joe_ Public

beggars_bush wrote: »

Lying?

When someone repeatedly states something they know not to be factual thats what i call it anyway.

Tell me how

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Correct. That 1bn is small beer in the overall scheme of things, but its a very big lie on the scale of the phantom 350m for the nhs and one that would resonate with lots of gullible people. I actually think some tory mps might even be deluded enough to even believe it themselves, but the likes of johnson and raab know very well what they are doing whenever they trot it out, despite being corrected on it time and time again.

I wouldn't be too sure about Raab knowing about it being a lie. He was caught by surprise by the significance of the Dover - Calais shipping route.
He wasn't even smart enough to not admit that fact.

Mr.Nice Guy

Interested to hear if Johnson is up for a leader's debate. When Cameron did them a few years ago he had to face the likes of Farage and Sturgeon. The DUP kicked up a big fuss over not being included then so it's possible he'd be up against Foster or Dodds if they are let on this time.

He'd be getting slated by all sides. I'm not sure he'd do well on the defensive and he'd probably start blustering and making a show of himself (more than usual). I'm thinking the Tories will try and keep the debate to just the main parties so that he'd be up against Corbyn and Swinson only, although it would be tough to stop the SNP from being represented. I think the Brexit Party and the DUP would be most likely to cause him harm, unless he can get some sort of pact with Farage. Keeping the DUP out wouldn't be too hard seeing as it's happened before.

Strazdas

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Interested to hear if Johnson is up for a leader's debate. When Cameron did them a few years ago he had to face the likes of Farage and Sturgeon. The DUP kicked up a big fuss over not being included then so it's possible he'd be up against Foster or Dodds if they are let on this time.

He'd be getting slated by all sides. I'm not sure he'd do well on the defensive and he'd probably start blustering and making a show of himself (more than usual). I'm thinking the Tories will try and keep the debate to just the main parties so that he'd be up against Corbyn and Swinson only, although it would be tough to stop the SNP from being represented. I think the Brexit Party and the DUP would be most likely to cause him harm, unless he can get some sort of pact with Farage. Keeping the DUP out wouldn't be too hard seeing as it's happened before.

You would think the opposition leaders would be able to land a good few blows on him. He's fronting up a party that's been in power for almost 10 years on an austerity agenda. That would be problematic for any party leader, never mind Johnson.

Twister2

He's fronting the party ,but he's the new face that has a deal ready to be delivered if he gets the mandate

He's now going to get brexit done

Corbyn can be shot down as indecisive, not expressing a preference on the referendum

DUP who gives a fukk

Twister2

What happened with the investigation into alleged favours to Ladyfriend

That had the potential to be serious

Strazdas

Twister2 wrote: »

He's fronting the party ,but he's the new face that has a deal ready to be delivered if he gets the mandate

He's now going to get brexit done

Corbyn can be shot down as indecisive, not expressing a preference on the referendum

DUP who gives a fukk

But with no guarantee he can end austerity. 'Getting Brexit done' is fine for the EU haters but a fat lot of good to everyone else.

Twister2

Strazdas wrote: »

But with no guarantee he can end austerity. 'Getting Brexit done' is fine for the EU haters but a fat lot of good to everyone else.

+1

Its a sad state of affairs that he can go to the country on 'getting brexit done'

Strazdas

Twister2 wrote: »

+1

Its a sad state of affairs that he can go to the country on 'getting brexit done'

I think the other stuff could trip him up, especially if the opposition start highlighting his plans for the NHS and workers rights etc.

'Get Brexit Done' as a slogan can only take him so far.

Twister2

Strazdas wrote: »

I think the other stuff could trip him up, especially if the opposition start highlighting his plans for the NHS and workers rights etc.

'Get Brexit Done' as a slogan can only take him so far.

Ya but to balance it out he's " standing up for the police" lol

CelticRambler

Twister2 wrote: »

He's fronting the party ,but he's the new face that has a deal ready to be delivered if he gets the mandate

He's now going to get brexit done

But that is his Achilles' heel:

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Economic predictions from UK's National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) for GDP in 10 years time.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50219036

Not-Boris Candidat: the Tories presided over 10 years of austerity
Boris: we're going to Get Brexit Done!
Not-Boris: and that'll mean more austerity
Boris: Great New Trade Deals!
Not-Boris: has the government done any impact assessments?
Boris: Unicorns galore!
Not-Boris: OK, let's see them

Keeping the detail of the Withdrawal Bill legislation under wraps, keeping the impact statements locked away, refusing to release the Yellowhammer and other contingency arrangements - that's a level of non-transparency that'll be very hard to defend during an election campaign.

My feeling (and 'tis only that) is that calling for a GE is another Cummings-Johnson strategic error, because every policy announcement by the Tories can be undermined by reference to their failure to deliver Brexit despite trying every underhand and sometimes unlawful trick in the book. As the English say: what goes around, comes around.

beggars_bush

Twister2 wrote: »

What happened with the investigation into alleged favours to Ladyfriend

That had the potential to be serious

Probably buried until well after any GE

Russman

CelticRambler wrote: »

But that is his Achilles' heel:



Not-Boris Candidat: the Tories presided over 10 years of austerity
Boris: we're going to Get Brexit Done!
Not-Boris: and that'll mean more austerity
Boris: Great New Trade Deals!
Not-Boris: has the government done any impact assessments?
Boris: Unicorns galore!
Not-Boris: OK, let's see them

Keeping the detail of the Withdrawal Bill legislation under wraps, keeping the impact statements locked away, refusing to release the Yellowhammer and other contingency arrangements - that's a level of non-transparency that'll be very hard to defend during an election campaign.

My feeling (and 'tis only that) is that calling for a GE is another Cummings-Johnson strategic error, because every policy announcement by the Tories can be undermined by reference to their failure to deliver Brexit despite trying every underhand and sometimes unlawful trick in the book. As the English say: what goes around, comes around.

But will the electorate be engaged enough to dig a little deeper than "get Brexit done" ? I have my doubts tbh. In today's ever more dumbed down society, elections are almost becoming reality TV popularity contests, where statements go unchecked and facts are a bit of an inconvenience. FPTP makes it really on a knife edge this time round and tiny swings either way will have huge bearings on the results.

If Labour can somehow (and its a bit "somehow") make the election about Tory austerity then they've half a chance. If, between them, the Lib Dems and Conservatives can make it about their respective Brexit positions, then Labour are goosed as there's really no middle ground with Brexit - its either a f--king stupid idea that needs to be revoked or its the best thing ever, Brexit will never be "not a bad idea, lets look at it".

prawnsambo

Jess Phillips started a GoFundMe to raise £15k for her election campaign yesterday. It's hit the target already. That's one very popular MP. Getting donations from all over the country.