Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

Roanmore

The fact that it’s The Daily Mail reporting this surprises me.
Brexit has caused so much toxicity over there.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8493529/amp/NHS-worker-friends-attacked-told-youre-England-talking-loudly-Polish.html?__twitter_impression=true

robinph

Got the second Brexit passport through for the family today. Previous one managed to be burgundy still and they just didn't write Europe on it but was otherwise the same as before. Just got the full brexit version through for another member of the clan and they have stuck British Passport in the biggest font along the top and moved the whole UK of GB and NI line to be less significant.

And it is most definitely not blue.

Peregrinus

robinph wrote: »

Got the second Brexit passport through for the family today. Previous one managed to be burgundy still and they just didn't write Europe on it but was otherwise the same as before. Just got the full brexit version through for another member of the clan and they have stuck British Passport in the biggest font along the top and moved the whole UK of GB and NI line to be less significant.

And it is most definitely not blue.

What colour is it?

robinph

Peregrinus wrote: »

What colour is it?

Black.

Very definitely black. 100% blacker than a very black thing, in a bag buried in a coal mine and covered in the blackest of blackness.

That at least cheers me up a tiny bit as I'm sure there will be some brexit heads losing their minds over it when they get their through.

ilovesmybrick

robinph wrote: »

Black.

Very definitely black. 100% blacker than a very black thing, in a bag buried in a coal mine and covered in the blackest of blackness.

That at least cheers me up a tiny bit as I'm sure there will be some brexit heads losing their minds over it when they get their through.

Are you sure it's not just very, very, very dark blue!

I think there must be stocks of the two different types still depending on what office sends the passport out. One family member renewed hers from London and it was the new version, whereas her brother around the same time up North got the old style. I would guess that passports are stockpiled for years into the future, since realistically how often are they updated? Maybe once a decade?

robinph

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Are you sure it's not just very, very, very dark blue!

I think there must be stocks of the two different types still depending on what office sends the passport out. One family member renewed hers from London and it was the new version, whereas her brother around the same time up North got the old style. I would guess that passports are stockpiled for years into the future, since realistically how often are they updated? Maybe once a decade?

It could possibly be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very dark, dark, dark, dark blue. But anyone with a pair or eyes rather than some fancy colour spectrum analyser will call it black.

It's the second one I've renewed this year, the first was just 12 days too late and so missed the chance of getting Europe stamped on it but was still burgundy. Next new one being the brexit black, but done through the same office in London.

I should check with another branch of the family when they are due to get theirs renewed via the embassy in the US as they are likely to have a different batch so might still get the old style ones if they are due to renew this year.

Leroy42

Of course the main issue with the new passport, regardless of the colour, is that it now gives less access and rights to the holder than it did previously. No amount of blue is going to change that.

Which is why so many people have applied for other European passports.

Alun

I've still got an old UK passport from the pre EU days, and that's also very, very, very dark blue almost black.

ilovesmybrick

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course the main issue with the new passport, regardless of the colour, is that it now gives less access and rights to the holder than it did previously. No amount of blue is going to change that.

Which is why so many people have applied for other European passports.

I wonder if someone has quantified the overall number of EU passports issued to UK citizens since Brexit. We know that the number of Irish passports issued shot up (there's at least 7 Irish passports in my workplace out of around 40 UK citizens, and a handful of German and Austrian ones).

ilovesmybrick

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course the main issue with the new passport, regardless of the colour, is that it now gives less access and rights to the holder than it did previously. No amount of blue is going to change that.

Which is why so many people have applied for other European passports.

I wonder if someone has quantified the overall number of EU passports issued to UK citizens since Brexit. We know that the number of Irish passports issued shot up (there's at least 7 Irish passports in my workplace out of around 40 UK citizens, and a handful of German and Austrian ones).

ambro25

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I wonder if someone has quantified the overall number of EU passports issued to UK citizens since Brexit. We know that the number of Irish passports issued shot up (there's at least 7 Irish passports in my workplace out of around 40 UK citizens, and a handful of German and Austrian ones).

EU27 schemes to (re-)register UKinEU are starting up now, with an application closing date in June 2021, and if our local version in Luxembourg is anything to go by-

(under which the current residential registration 'slip' is to be replaced by a 5- or 10 year-valid biometric ID card, with that duration contingent on the validity length/type of the British ID supporting the application)

-it shouldn't be too hard for the Commission to come up with reasonably-accurate stats on the number of Brits residing where in the EU27...and/or merely revalidate existing stats from those EU member states, which have long practiced compulsory registration for residents.

The application procedure opened on 1st July here. Further info/details for trivia at https://guichet.public.lu/en/actualites/2020/juillet/01-documents-sejour-ressortissants-britanniques.html.

Applications are processed in order of receipt.

When their application has been processed, applicants will receive a letter inviting them to make an appointment with the Immigration Directorate of the Ministry of Foreign and European Affairs in order to have their photograph and fingerprints taken, which will be incorporated into the residence permit.

The applicant may also bring a recent photograph compliant with OACI/ICAO standards ('biometric passport standards').

A few days after the biometric data have been collected, the applicant can pick up the residence permit in person at the Immigration Directorate, by appointment.

The residence document takes the form of a chip card containing biometric data.

Mrs posted her application today, so it'll be interesting to see how this all works in practice, and what the end product looks like. I'm hoping that it will allow her to use the 'EU' lanes at EU27 airports.

robinph

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I wonder if someone has quantified the overall number of EU passports issued to UK citizens since Brexit. We know that the number of Irish passports issued shot up (there's at least 7 Irish passports in my workplace out of around 40 UK citizens, and a handful of German and Austrian ones).

I'd be curious if a significant number of the new dual UK/ Irish passport holders were from outside of NI as there are different motivations for getting both from NI compared to the rest of the UK. Also different criteria for being able to claim the Irish one.

I have previously been eligible for both, but didn't because it was a waste of nearly a grand whilst I was unemployed at the time. Now no longer eligible myself but the rest of the family have Irish passports thankfully. That my kid doesn't loose out on any rights due to my mother reading the Daily Mail is some relief, but their cousins do loose out.

I still can't get my head round how one of my parents voted considering the multi national, multi racial, intercontinental family they raised? They did something right, but the evil of the Daily Mail somehow made them blind to their own family.


(sorry, just needed to vent a bit)

robinph

ambro25 wrote: »

I'm hoping that it will allow her to use the 'EU' lanes at EU27 airports.

My method which will work for another couple of years will be to get the kid to scream for daddy from the EU queue and I'll sneak through that way.

An Ciarraioch

UK's DEFRA has formally submitted applications to the EU to create Border Controls Posts in ports in Northern Ireland:

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-53320065?__twitter_impression=true

Thargor

The recent farm bill in the UK seems to have slipped under the radar a bit but its actually about as bad as it gets, and this isnt pie in the sky stuff that might happen, this is the actual bill, some discussion here, too many points to copy and paste:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/hmt6u1/the_governments_agriculture_bill_that_is/

Peregrinus

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Are you sure it's not just very, very, very dark blue!

robinph wrote: »

It could possibly be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very dark, dark, dark, dark blue. But anyone with a pair or eyes rather than some fancy colour spectrum analyser will call it black.

This shade is called "Fr. Ted Blue" or "clerical sock blue".

Enzokk

Interesting thread about another fight this UK Government is setting itself up for.

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1280766673490976769?s=20

It is a long thread, here it is in full.

Threadreader

Basically, to make the trade deals with the UK and any other country really you need to create a all UK internal market. But by making this market you go over the devolved governments in areas they are responsible for. This includes agriculture, food standards and state aid, that are policy areas that are the responsibility of the Scottish Government.

So the UK will have to tread on the toes of the Scottish Government to do their trade deals when they will most likely create a internal UK market. We will have to wait and see how this plays out. There are Scottish Parliament elections coming up in 2021. The results of this will be interesting as it will be the first post Brexit elections and there is still a lot to happen that could make the next few years very interesting.

Leroy42

What option does Scotland have though? They cannot force higher regs on their farmers and expect them to compete with English, or foreign, farmers.

They will kick up then will have to concede.

Of course what it really shows is that the UK is a union in name only. Whilst Brexiteers are quick to lament the bully boy tactics of Brussels, they are more than happy to do it themselves.

So the issue never was about accountability or democracy, simply that England wants to be in charge.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

What option does Scotland have though?

Leave the Union and rejoin the EU.

That's why the SNP are shouting about it - every fight with Westminster, win or lose, is a step towards independence.

Leroy42

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Leave the Union and rejoin the EU.

That's why the SNP are shouting about it - every fight with Westminster, win or lose, is a step towards independence.

But given that the vast majority of Scotlands economy is based on 'exports' to the UK, just as it is argued that it is folly for the UK to level the EU, then Scotland looking to leave the union, especially if the UK is still in a No deal situation, would be equally difficult.

Maybe long term, but short term Scotland would be faced with continually having to accede to UK standards changes in order to stay competitive within their current market (GB).

But I agree, that this will only hasten the drive for independence as it seems that the devolution that was gained is being pulled back

CelticRambler

Leroy42 wrote: »

Maybe long term, but short term Scotland would be faced with continually having to accede to UK standards changes in order to stay competitive within their current market (GB).

That's old-school thinking. Short-term, a pre-independence Scotland could take advantage of it's freedom from "Brussels" to aggressively re-position itself vis-à-vis England and the EU.

Instead of competing with whatever is left of England's farming industry, which itself will be competing with eco-unfriendly, unsustainable, hazardous-to-health crap coming from the Americas, the Scots could (should) put considerable effort into promoting their high-quality, high-value, certified "green" produce within GB (competing with Ireland/NI obviously) while taking lessons from - and possibly cooperating with - the Irish campaign in Europe and further afield: an informal Celtic Alliance of sorts. Even though we joke about their deep-fried Mars bars, the Scotland brand in the EU in respect of food and drink is already very positive - it's a solid foundation on which to build up a bigger market.

listermint

Leroy42 wrote: »

What option does Scotland have though? They cannot force higher regs on their farmers and expect them to compete with English, or foreign, farmers.

They will kick up then will have to concede.

Of course what it really shows is that the UK is a union in name only. Whilst Brexiteers are quick to lament the bully boy tactics of Brussels, they are more than happy to do it themselves.

So the issue never was about accountability or democracy, simply that England wants to be in charge.

They most certainly can and they can be seen or shown to have better product and charge for it too. There will be a market for that in England if it becomes a free for all. Scottish branded foods would garner a market no doubt.

ambro25

CelticRambler wrote: »

That's old-school thinking. Short-term, a pre-independence Scotland could take advantage of it's freedom from "Brussels" to aggressively re-position itself vis-à-vis England and the EU.

Instead of competing with whatever is left of England's farming industry, which itself will be competing with eco-unfriendly, unsustainable, hazardous-to-health crap coming from the Americas, the Scots could (should) put considerable effort into promoting their high-quality, high-value, certified "green" produce within GB (competing with Ireland/NI obviously) while taking lessons from - and possibly cooperating with - the Irish campaign in Europe and further afield: an informal Celtic Alliance of sorts. Even though we joke about their deep-fried Mars bars, the Scotland brand in the EU in respect of food and drink is already very positive - it's a solid foundation on which to build up a bigger market.

And in that particular context, it is very much in their economic interest to (stay-) onboard the EU's GI regime as a badge of authenticity doubling as a badge of quality for their agrifood and beverage products...which, the last time I looked at the issue, the UK was still looking to ditch/dodge (whereby enterprising types could then start flogging US-made 'parmiggiano reggiano', Brazilian 'Parma ham', AU-made 'champagne' etc. on the UK market without fear of legal retribution).

Winters

UK are set to nominate Doctor Liam Fox to the vacant position of Director-general of the WTO.

More popcorn please.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53333616

Professor Moriarty

Winters wrote: »

UK are set to nominate Doctor Liam Fox to the vacant position of Director-general of the WTO.

More popcorn please.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53333616

I wonder will he get EU votes?

ancapailldorcha

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I wonder will he get EU votes?

I don't see why he would. Surely the EU would want a friendly party running the WTO instead of Brexiter who peddled the German cars myth.

Professor Moriarty

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't see why he would. Surely the EU would want a friendly party running the WTO instead of Brexiter who peddled the German cars myth.

It was a satirical question! There is zero chance of Merkel, Macron etc. backing Liam "the easiest trade deal in human history" Fox.

Quin_Dub

From an EU perspective , do they put forward a single nomination or can member countries individually propose a candidate?

ancapailldorcha

Quin_Dub wrote: »

From an EU perspective , do they put forward a single nomination or can member countries individually propose a candidate?

I think the EU puts forward a candidate as a member itself. The UK had to apply for WTO membership after it left the EU.

RobMc59

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It was a satirical question! There is zero chance of Merkel, Macron etc. backing Liam "the easiest trade deal in human history" Fox.

If he is successful it would cause unease in Brussels.Russia might back him just to cause mischief.