VAR Discussion thread

dfx-

osarusan wrote: »

You'll still end up with a line and a discussion about whether a heel or a toe is on or millimetres over the line.

no need for a line. The normal camera angle, in real time and a judgement call on one 5 second look at it, same as the referee's assistant got at the time. Ideally called by fellow referee's assistants in the VAR room.

That's enough to see obvious ones and let go the 'tight' decisions.

inforfun

From the same clip:

https://youtu.be/gyidUIVWlos?t=570

At 9.30
Red card or not?

osarusan

inforfun wrote: »

From the same clip:

https://youtu.be/gyidUIVWlos?t=570

At 9.30
Red card or not?

I watched the rest of the highlights and thought it should have been a red. Once you give the free, it's a red for stopping a clear goal-scoring chance.

CSF

dfx- wrote: »

no need for a line. The normal camera angle, in real time and a judgement call on one 5 second look at it, same as the referee's assistant got at the time. Ideally called by fellow referee's assistants in the VAR room.

That's enough to see obvious ones and let go the 'tight' decisions.

Realistically, people are still going to fume over decisions and freak out about VAR the way they always have.

If there is one that ends up being offside and the refs don’t identify it in their 5 second look at it, particularly if it wins Liverpool or Man United a game, the VAR criticism will be just as intense.

I wasn’t the biggest fan of VAR being introduced but they cannot win now that it has been.

irelandrover

inforfun wrote: »

From the same clip:

https://youtu.be/gyidUIVWlos?t=570

At 9.30
Red card or not?

I think that's a tough decision as I expect the keeper was getting to the ball first. In which case the yellow card for the foul was correct as it was just a pull back instead of a foul preventing a clear goal scoring chance.

inforfun

And there we have it.
2 persons, 2 opinions.

Sinisterra, the guy fouled, scored the Feyenoord goal in a counter attack. Gives you an idea how quick he is.

Fwiw, former Dutch top referee Mario van der Ende thought it was a red card.

Same situation next week and there is every chance a red card will be given.

osarusan

dfx- wrote: »

no need for a line. The normal camera angle, in real time and a judgement call on one 5 second look at it, same as the referee's assistant got at the time. Ideally called by fellow referee's assistants in the VAR room.

That's enough to see obvious ones and let go the 'tight' decisions.

That would be an absolute nightmare.

Sky and BT would still be using the freeze frame and offside lines and showing viewers that VAR got it wrong anyway.

gstack166

osarusan wrote: »

That would be an absolute nightmare.

Sky and BT would still be using the freeze frame and offside lines and showing viewers that VAR got it wrong anyway.

They didn’t use it for Salahs goal against City. Very strange considering it was almost identical to Sterling on Saturday.

ArmaniJeanss

Sticking to an incorrect decision because to correctly reverse it would take 10 seconds longer than some arbitrary (and very short) cut-off time doesn't seem sensible.

Also is there a case now for players to make more of an effort to stay categorically and conclusively on-side?
Playing on the absolute edge and hoping the linesmans snap decision went your way once in five times has been the forwards method for a long time.

osarusan

gstack166 wrote: »

They didn’t use it for Salahs goal against City. Very strange considering it was almost identical to Sterling on Saturday.

Freeze frame and line was shown a few minutes later on TV.

irelandrover

inforfun wrote: »

And there we have it.
2 persons, 2 opinions.

Sinisterra, the guy fouled, scored the Feyenoord goal in a counter attack. Gives you an idea how quick he is.

Fwiw, former Dutch top referee Mario van der Ende thought it was a red card.

Same situation next week and there is every chance a red card will be given.

But that's not a VAR issue. The ref thought it was a yellow, the VAR couldn't find a clear and obvious reason to overturn it. For me that's exactly how VAR should be working.

gstack166

osarusan wrote: »

Freeze frame and line was shown a few minutes later on TV.

That was Sky’s own line drawn up. They never showed the VAR pictures. Even for the 2 handballs in the box that led to Fabinho goal, it wasn’t checked.

gstack166

https://twitter.com/mark_j69/status/1198900598697086977?s=21


I wouldn’t be one for conspiracy theories, I’m more in the camp that the officials don’t have a clue what they’re doing, but that doesn’t half look very dodgy.

osarusan

gstack166 wrote: »

That was Sky’s own line drawn up. They never showed the VAR pictures. Even for the 2 handballs in the box that led to Fabinho goal, it wasn’t checked.

Fair enough, I just remember seeing the freezeframe.

VAR does check every goal though, even if we don't see the VAR footage being checked (which we should have in the Salah case).

GLaDOS

gstack166 wrote: »

Even for the 2 handballs in the box that led to Fabinho goal, it wasn’t checked.

It was

inforfun

That goal was scrapped, right?

Just a var who want to be in the spotlights.
Happens in the Dutch league all the time.

osarusan

GLaDOS wrote: »

It was

I think his point is that what we see there is just a slow-motion replay, and doesn't look like this (for example), where you can see it 'officially' saying that VAR are checking and so on.

ArmaniJeanss

Anyone who comes out with 'why didn't VAR check that goal?' is barely deserving of a reply by this stage.

TitianGerm

osarusan wrote: »

I watched the rest of the highlights and thought it should have been a red. Once you give the free, it's a red for stopping a clear goal-scoring chance.

Harry McGuire had one of those against Liverpool in the drawn game last season and I'm nearly sure Kompany had one against Rashford in the second derby last year and both were yellows.

gstack166

osarusan wrote: »

I think his point is that what we see there is just a slow-motion replay, and doesn't look like this (for example), where you can see it 'officially' saying that VAR are checking and so on.

Exactly, I’ve said it twice now. VAR didn’t check them. There wasn’t even a delay in the game when both incidents happened. No split screen with the big tv in the ground saying checking Var like usual or anything. That’s not disputing the decisions at all, it’s just a simple point that VAR wasn’t used.

TitianGerm

gstack166 wrote: »

They didn’t use it for Salahs goal against City. Very strange considering it was almost identical to Sterling on Saturday.

I watched it on NBC and they showed the VAR line. Salah was well onside. The Sterling one was more like the Firmino one against Villa and I still can't see why either was ruled out.

TitianGerm

gstack166 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mark_j69/status/1198900598697086977?s=21


I wouldn’t be one for conspiracy theories, I’m more in the camp that the officials don’t have a clue what they’re doing, but that doesn’t half look very dodgy.

My guess is he told him to put the flag up there so the crowd knew what was being checked?

gstack166

TitianGerm wrote: »

I watched it on NBC and they showed the VAR line. Salah was well onside. The Sterling one was more like the Firmino one against Villa and I still can't see why either was ruled out.

Never watched it on NBC myself so not disputing you but I know people that were in Anfield and even there the screens never went to ‘Var checking goal’

I haven’t watched the clips just posted here on the thread but I have the match recorded at home and if you watch it again on Sky, Martin Tyler knows the decision before the referee, he says goal stands before Micheal Olivier points to the centre circle, a good 2 seconds before it actually.

Going back to Salah, again I’m not saying he was offside Cos the frames we have seen are subjected but there’s no way he was ‘well onside’ if he was onside it was just onside, I think most of us can agree on that.

Strange that US television get the VAR shots and we don’t considering it’s all the one feed thats aired.

Fitz*

gstack166 wrote: »

Never watched it on NBC myself so not disputing you but I know people that were in Anfield and even there the screens never went to ‘Var checking goal’

That's probably because there are no screens at Anfield.

Both goals were checked by VAR. Every goal is. The offside line for the legitimate Salah goal was shown by Sky too.

gstack166 wrote: »

Going back to Salah, again I’m not saying he was offside Cos the frames we have seen are subjected but there’s no way he was ‘well onside’ if he was onside it was just onside, I think most of us can agree on that.

Strange that US television get the VAR shots and we don’t considering it’s all the one feed thats aired.

You can look again here. It's the image that Sky showed of the incident during the game. the VAR people probably had it cleared up pretty quickly as the on field assistant allowed the goal also, and the image is pretty clear in showing Salah actually is "well onside".

Diggy78

gstack166 wrote: »

Never watched it on NBC myself so not disputing you but I know people that were in Anfield and even there the screens never went to ‘Var checking goal’

I haven’t watched the clips just posted here on the thread but I have the match recorded at home and if you watch it again on Sky, Martin Tyler knows the decision before the referee, he says goal stands before Micheal Olivier points to the centre circle, a good 2 seconds before it actually.

Going back to Salah, again I’m not saying he was offside Cos the frames we have seen are subjected but there’s no way he was ‘well onside’ if he was onside it was just onside, I think most of us can agree on that.

Strange that US television get the VAR shots and we don’t considering it’s all the one feed thats aired.

Surely if Tyler knew that and said it before ref pointed to the spot then that would mean it was checked even if it didn't come up on the screens? Cant recall it off the top of my head how long it was between goal being scored and Tyler confirming.

gstack166

FitzShane wrote: »

That's probably because there are no screens at Anfield.

Both goals were checked by VAR. Every goal is. The offside line for the legitimate Salah goal was shown by Sky too.



You can look again here. It's the image that Sky showed of the incident during the game. the VAR people probably had it cleared up pretty quickly as the on field assistant allowed the goal also, and the image is pretty clear in showing Salah onside.

If I have to say this one more time, I’ll go out of my mind. The VAR lines, the official var lines were not showed for the Salah goal, it’s a simple fact that I can’t understand why it’s being disputed. The official var photos have a red and blue line one for defenders one for attackers, it wasn’t posted. The day before that game Sheff Utd had an identical goal ruled out at Spurs (not saying Salahs should of been ruled out) and it took 4mins to rule it out. Red lines, blue lines, zoom, different angles, everything was used.

Salahs goal the ref had the whistle blown for a goal while the first replay of the goal was being shown.

Unless he was a good yard onside (which he wasn’t) it’s impossible for them to have checked it (which they didn’t because we’ve only images of one line across the field, the only goal this season ‘checked by far’ where there’s one line) in less than 20 seconds.

Fitz*

gstack166 wrote: »

If I have to say this one more time, I’ll go out of my mind. The VAR lines, the official var lines were not showed for the Salah goal, it’s a simple fact that I can’t understand why it’s being disputed. The official var photos have a red and blue line one for defenders one for attackers, it wasn’t posted. The day before that game Sheff Utd had an identical goal ruled out at Spurs (not saying Salahs should of been ruled out) and it took 4mins to rule it out. Red lines, blue lines, zoom, different angles, everything was used.

Salahs goal the ref had the whistle blown for a goal while the first replay of the goal was being shown.

Unless he was a good yard onside (which he wasn’t) it’s impossible for them to have checked it (which they didn’t because we’ve only images of one line across the field, the only goal this season ‘checked by far’ where there’s one line) in less than 20 seconds.

It wasn't identical because in the Sheff United- Spurs game, it was a toe width offside. It went to zooms and different lines to clear up the confusion, because the decision could really have gone either way.

Salah was about a foot onside. There was no need to go to zooms, blue lines and red lines with VAR on the screen as the Salah was onside to the naked eye, and also with the official lines. He looked onside in real time too.

Anyways, the decision was correct in the end, so I don't see what the fuss about that goal is.

Diggy78

gstack166 wrote: »

If I have to say this one more time, I’ll go out of my mind. The VAR lines, the official var lines were not showed for the Salah goal, it’s a simple fact that I can’t understand why it’s being disputed. The official var photos have a red and blue line one for defenders one for attackers, it wasn’t posted. The day before that game Sheff Utd had an identical goal ruled out at Spurs (not saying Salahs should of been ruled out) and it took 4mins to rule it out. Red lines, blue lines, zoom, different angles, everything was used.

Salahs goal the ref had the whistle blown for a goal while the first replay of the goal was being shown.

Unless he was a good yard onside (which he wasn’t) it’s impossible for them to have checked it (which they didn’t because we’ve only images of one line across the field, the only goal this season ‘checked by far’ where there’s one line) in less than 20 seconds.

I could be completely wrong here as totally off memory, but I only recall seeing the red line you're talking about being shown for when showing someone is offside. Completely open to correction on that though.

No idea if official var lines were shown

Edit. Actually I do recall one in champs league now. Ignore above

gstack166

FitzShane wrote: »

Anyways, the decision was correct in the end, so I don't see what the fuss about that goal is.

There’s no fuss over the goal, All I stated from the start is that VAR didn’t check it, and they didn’t. That’s all I have to say on it now. I’ve stated in 2 posts I’m not questioning the decision or even saying he was offside for that matter.

Fitz*

gstack166 wrote: »

There’s no fuss over the goal, All I stated from the start is that VAR didn’t check it, and they didn’t. That’s all I have to say on it now. I’ve stated in 2 posts I’m not questioning the decision or even saying he was offside for that matter.

I can't find the Sky full match, but on this NBC version https://myfootballhighlights.com/liverpool-vs-manchester-city-highlights-full-match-2/

12:14 - Salah scored.
13:03 - The commentator said that the goal was being reviewed by VAR, before the goal could officially be given. Michael Oliver had stayed in the City half and had not gone back to the centre circle for a kick off yet.
13:18 the goal was given.

There was a VAR check, it was just a very quick one because it was pretty clear that Salah was onside.

8-10

gstack166 wrote: »

Never watched it on NBC myself so not disputing you but I know people that were in Anfield and even there the screens never went to ‘Var checking goal’

There's no screens at Anfield. George Sephton annouces it over the PA but when I've seen a VAR check at Anfield (last season), he announced it only after the game had already restarted. Another time I saw a VAR check and he didn't even mention it.

There's nothing clear at Anfield for knowing that there's a check, let alone what it's for or what the outcome is.

The people you know don't have a clue if they're complaining about screens not showing it.

citytillidie

8-10 wrote: »

There's no screens at Anfield. George Sephton annouces it over the PA but when I've seen a VAR check at Anfield (last season), he announced it only after the game had already restarted. Another time I saw a VAR check and he didn't even mention it.

There's nothing clear at Anfield for knowing that there's a check, let alone what it's for or what the outcome is.

The people you know don't have a clue if they're complaining about screens not showing it.

VAR check will come up on the scoreboards at Anfield

gstack166

8-10 wrote: »

There's no screens at Anfield. George Sephton annouces it over the PA but when I've seen a VAR check at Anfield (last season), he announced it only after the game had already restarted. Another time I saw a VAR check and he didn't even mention it.

There's nothing clear at Anfield for knowing that there's a check, let alone what it's for or what the outcome is.

The people you know don't have a clue if they're complaining about screens not showing it.

I’d hazard a guess they have more of a clue than you

gstack166

8-10 wrote: »

There's no screens at Anfield. George Sephton annouces it over the PA but when I've seen a VAR check at Anfield (last season), he announced it only after the game had already restarted. Another time I saw a VAR check and he didn't even mention it.

There's nothing clear at Anfield for knowing that there's a check, let alone what it's for or what the outcome is.

The people you know don't have a clue if they're complaining about screens not showing it.

‘There’s nothing clear at Anfield for knowing that there’s a check, let alone what’s it’s for or what the outcome is’

darced

They don't need the extra offside lines if its not close. They used the first line and its clearly onside so there is no need to do anything else, how to people not understand this.

Also yesterday the commentary team at Sheffield United knew the goal would stand before the ref indicated the decision, they must have audio from VAR or something.

gstack166

darced wrote: »

They don't need the extra offside lines if its not close. They used the first line and its clearly onside so there is no need to do anything else, how to people not understand this.

Also yesterday the commentary team at Sheffield United knew the goal would stand before the ref indicated the decision, they must have audio from VAR or something.

Look my last post on this because I’m talking to the wall.

Var wasn’t used, the image we got fed of Salah being onside isn’t the official var picture. How can you not understand this! For starters the picture is at an angle, it’s not straight, have you ever seen a judges picture of a horse race using the camera angle we see on tv? No, because that’s at an angle too, it’s impossible to say he was onside looking at a picture that isn’t straight.

Anyways I’ve had my say, game is over, goal stands, but don’t try and insult my intelligence by saying VAR was used, because it wasn’t. I’m not even suggesting it mightn’t have been used, I’m telling you that it wasn’t used.

.G.

Every single goal scored in every single game in the premier league is checked by VAR, they stated this many many times this season. Most of the checks are over as soon as they start because there's nothing wrong and they can clearly see there's nothing wrong and thats why announcements aren't made, it's only if they've spotted something that requires further looks that they make the announcement that its being checked and you get all the zooms and the various lines and then an official picture that explains the decision thats made.


https://www.premierleague.com/VAR/goal-decisions-explained

gstack166

.G. wrote: »

Every single goal scored in every single game in the premier league is checked by VAR, they stated this many many times this season. Most of the checks are over as soon as they start because there's nothing wrong and they can clearly see there's nothing wrong and thats why announcements aren't made, it's only if they've spotted something that requires further looks that they make the announcement that its being checked and you get all the zooms and the various lines and then an official picture that explains the decision thats made.


https://www.premierleague.com/VAR/goal-decisions-explained

That’s clearly wrong seeing as their was 2 handballs in the lead up to Liverpool’s first goal. No penalty should of been awarded but the goal shouldn’t of stood as Bernardo handled the ball. You cannot say advantage was given when the ball fell to a man in his own 18 yard box surrounded by 2 City players.

There obviously was a problem with the technology or something that day, their had to been, but it wasn’t checked during that game. It never once even showed them in the booth like they normally do & fill us in who’s in there, Tyler told us who was the VAR official that day but we got no footage of them in the room.

.G.

Honestly I can't remember if in that game whether there was a delay on that one as they checked it out, I thought there was but can't be arsed trying to find it to see, I know there was no delay on the Salah one nor should there have been, it was fine, just like there was no delay on the Mane goal or the City one.

Its hard to know with the Fabinho one cos even ex refs couldn't decide on it, the ones I saw said goal was the correct outcome but they differed on why it was so if they can't decide what chance has anyone else got.

gstack166

.G. wrote: »

Honestly I can't remember if in that game whether there was a delay on that one as they checked it out, I thought there was but can't be arsed trying to find it to see, I know there was no delay on the Salah one nor should there have been, it was fine, just like there was no delay on the Mane goal or the City one.

Its hard to know with the Fabinho one cos even ex refs couldn't decide on it, the ones I saw said goal was the correct outcome but they differed on why it was so if they can't decide what chance has anyone else got.

I agree with you on the last part and I’m not questioning the goals either, it seemed to be 50/50 on opinions on the first goal alright, my only point and argument in the whole conversation is just that VAR wasn’t used. Plenty of times we’ve seen goals go to VAR this year and waited for the check, got the replays, seen the players talking it over etc before getting the decision and then saying the goal stands, but on the biggest game of the season with 2 tight decisions we never got any of it. Nothing. All done and confirmed during the replay of the goal & no split screen with the VAR booth even though people on this thread are saying VAR checked it.

.G.

Well you have your view and other people and the Premier league don't agree with it. All the goals are checked but you insist they aren't so there's not much point in debating it, as has been stated, the vast majority of them in the vast majority of games don't receive the scrutiny you refer to because they don't need that scrutiny, its clear in seconds the goals are fine. I saw the end of the game yesterday, I didn't see any VAR scrutiny for Rashfords goal or Greenwoods goal or Willams goal before it cos none of them needed it. But if the Premier league and the PGMOL are to be believed they were all checked. Don't think any of the goals in the City v Chelsea game got checked either bar the really tight Sterling one for obvious reasons.

Obviously with the Fabinho goal there were issues but all of the 3 other goals in that game were unremarkable in terms of needing the scrutiny some goals clearly need.

gstack166

.G. wrote: »

Well you have your view and other people and the Premier league don't agree with it. All the goals are checked but you insist they aren't so there's not much point in debating it, as has been stated and the vast majority of them in the vast majority of games don't receive the scrutiny you refer to because they don't need that scrutiny, its clear in seconds the goals are fine. I saw the end of the game yesterday, I didn't see any VAR scrutiny for Rashfords goal or Greenwoods goal or Willams goal before it cos none of them needed it. But if the Premier league and the PGMOL are to be believed they were all checked. Don't think any of the goals in the City game got checked either bar the really tight Sterling one for obvious reasons.

Obviously with the Fabinho goal there were issues but all of the 3 other goals in that game were unremarkable in terms of needing the scrutiny the really tight offside get or the

Take Mane’s goal that got ruled out at Old Trafford for example, it was clear handball and It took over a minute for that verdict to come in and we got to see the booth and hear Neville say after the replay ‘they’ll go mad in the away end when this is ruled out’ and it was a clear handball. But your telling me a tight decision where he’s onside can be done in the blink of an eye during the goal replay and that’s it.

osarusan

VAR checks every goal. The absence of any VAR footage making its way to TV screens doesn't mean a goal hasn't been checked.

They [PGMOL] said: “The VAR checked the penalty appeal for handball against Trent Alexander-Arnold and confirmed the on-field decision that it did not meet the considerations for a deliberate handball.

“VAR checked for possible offside, and confirmed that the Salah goal was correct.”

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2019/11/10/var-explanation-for-liverpool-goals-vs-man-city/

.G.

gstack166 wrote: »

Take Mane’s goal that got ruled out at Old Trafford for example, it was clear handball and It took over a minute for that verdict to come in and we got to see the booth and hear Neville say after the replay ‘they’ll go mad in the away end when this is ruled out’ and it was a clear handball. But your telling me a tight decision where he’s onside can be done in the blink of an eye during the goal replay and that’s it.

Yes I am, and so is everyone else and the Premier League. All goals are checked, the minority receive extra scrutiny.

Have a good evening.

Utopia Parkway

https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1198953574719541249?s=20

Utopia Parkway

VAR OVERTURNS (NET SCORE)

Tottenham Hotspur +3
Brighton & Hove Albion +2
Crystal Palace +2
Leicester City +2
Manchester United +2
Southampton +2
Burnley +1
Liverpool +1
AFC Bournemouth 0
Newcastle 0
Watford 0
Arsenal -1
Everton -1
Manchester City -1
Norwich City -1
West Ham -1
Aston Villa -2
Wolves -2
Sheffield United -2
Chelsea -4

darced

gstack166 wrote: »

Look my last post on this because I’m talking to the wall.

Var wasn’t used, the image we got fed of Salah being onside isn’t the official var picture. How can you not understand this! For starters the picture is at an angle, it’s not straight, have you ever seen a judges picture of a horse race using the camera angle we see on tv? No, because that’s at an angle too, it’s impossible to say he was onside looking at a picture that isn’t straight.

Anyways I’ve had my say, game is over, goal stands, but don’t try and insult my intelligence by saying VAR was used, because it wasn’t. I’m not even suggesting it mightn’t have been used, I’m telling you that it wasn’t used.

All the offsides are ruled from an angle?

Surely they are using a technology that scans the pitch dimensions etc. and does the maths for them? I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest they are.

darced

Worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOK7-kc_8o

Fitz*

VAR just checked Aston Villa's 2nd goal tonight. As they do for every goal. It was a tight-ish offside call. There was no VAR check shown on live TV.

Just because Sky don't show the VAR room and lines been drawn doesn't mean it didn't happen.

monkey9

gstack166 wrote: »

All I stated from the start is that VAR didn’t check it, and they didn’t.

gstack166 wrote: »

Exactly, I’ve said it twice now. VAR didn’t check them.

Every goal is checked by VAR. That sentence may not infiltrate the tinfoil on your head, but every goal is checked by VAR.