Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

Murph_D

PaulieC wrote: »

That's all very well and reasonable but one thing about the new system is that the graduated pricing has gone and now you will not be able to enter for less than 93 euros. If it wasn't a money grab, why not just reduce the price to everyone so everyone pays the same amount and everyone has an equal chance of getting in ?

Well we don't know yet what the AAI member price is going to be. Maybe there will be a discount?

rainbow kirby

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Not happy with any change that affects club runners ability to take part in a championship race, there is a very small % of entrants that are club runners as it is and sure if you end up with 50% of runners in the marathon being club runners because people join clubs so they can get an entry, so be it, that would be a fricken huge financial benefit to athletics clubs in Ireland, it would easily be avoided anyway by letting clubs do the championship entries so they only enter long term or active members rather than ones who only join to get the champ entry.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I'm a 5 hour ish finisher normally - I ran with a lady in Manchester in April for a decent chunk of the race who was in her late 60s. She ran 4:50 but was a scorer for her club in the team race because she was running for a relatively small club. I'd hate to think that people like that would be discouraged from the championship race - the numbers aren't huge in terms of the club championship race so don't screw the club runners over.

PaulieC

Murph_D wrote: »

Well we don't know yet what the AAI member price is going to be. Maybe there will be a discount?

maybe. It's just one of the very many questions left unanswered by the announcement.

jonnbinn

PaulieC wrote: »

That's all very well and reasonable but one thing about the new system is that the graduated pricing has gone and now you will not be able to enter for less than 93 euros. If it wasn't a money grab, why not just reduce the price to everyone so everyone pays the same amount and everyone has an equal chance of getting in ?

I dont really have an explaination for that...except to say that all races have gone up in price over the last couple of years (even your local 5 & 10ks) Out of interest when was the last price increase for Dublin? (Last year was my first time running so not sure what it was before that) also where does €93 come when compared to other european marathons of similar size?

bucketybuck

jonnbinn wrote: »

So maybe cut them some slack and trust that they are doing it for the right reasons.

Nothing wrong with wanting to know what those reasons are.

They are implementing a lottery system for an event that doesn't immediately sell out, is that not a little strange? So what exactly is the problem they are using this to solve?

bucketybuck

jonnbinn wrote: »

I dont really have an explaination for that...except to say that all races have gone up in price over the last couple of years (even your local 5 & 10ks) Out of interest when was the last price increase for Dublin?

I have no problem at all with the price going up, that's just simple economics.

Downtime

is_that_so wrote: »

There goes the I've run every marathon record for some!

The 13 folks that have run all 40 have guaranteed lifetime entry.

ted1

jonnbinn wrote: »

I dont really have an explaination for that...except to say that all races have gone up in price over the last couple of years (even your local 5 & 10ks) Out of interest when was the last price increase for Dublin? (Last year was my first time running so not sure what it was before that) also where does €93 come when compared to other european marathons of similar size?

Barcelona 61.50
Lisbon 55
Copenhagen 93
Paris 90
Berlin 125
Riga 37
Milan 55

is_that_so

Downtime wrote: »

The 13 folks that have run all 40 have guaranteed lifetime entry.

Is that true? Good for them if it is.

jonnbinn

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nothing wrong with wanting to know what those reasons are.

They are implementing a lottery system for an event that doesn't immediately sell out, is that not a little strange? So what exactly is the problem they are using this to solve?

Read something over on one of the FB running groups that mentioned (probably speculation) that the reason for the lottery was to get lots of people to sign up so that they could take that number and use it to convince the county council, garda etc. that the interest is there.

Apparently, the reason the numbers are capped to the current amount is because that is all the start/finish areas can cater for currently. Whereas, a move to, say, the Phoenix Park would allow bigger numbers.

Again, thats probably all speculation but its a good talking point at least!

Singer

jonnbinn wrote: »

I dont really have an explaination for that...

Jim Aughney explained the need for price increases in the recent interview with the Runner Beans podcast, a lot of their expenses have increased. Inflation is not zero, and I think it still represents pretty good value for money for a high quality citywide event in Dublin.

Glencarraig

justdoit wrote: »

Re. GFA places, am I reading correctly that these will only be open to Athletics Ireland members ie not overseas runners? This is very different to the marathon majors where the qualifying standards are openly the target for many people's other races...

GFA entries for London are only available to "UK residents". New York uses a qualifying system from NYRR approved races and overseas GFA's can enter a lottery. The GFA cutoffs vary widely from major to major. I qualified for Boston with 3.24.30 which gave me a 35 minute cushion but I scraped into Berlin by only 30 seconds.

Glencarraig

nannerby wrote: »

I don't think that counts in the marathon champs.

It is an AI rule but rarely enforced.

sideswipe

Hopefully they will start to require proof of previous finish time to allocate wave positions. I think there is more of a tendency for people to use wave 1 as an early start option rather than going for their correct wave with the big time lag between first and last wave starts.

Plumbthedepths

Glencarraig wrote: »

GFA entries for London are only available to "UK residents". New York uses a qualifying system from NYRR approved races and overseas GFA's can enter a lottery. The GFA cutoffs vary widely from major to major. I qualified for Boston with 3.24.30 which gave me a 35 minute cushion but I scraped into Berlin by only 30 seconds.

Become a Pacer free entry same medal t shirt as the other runners even if they do it 1 hour faster than you. ;-)

ooter

Glencarraig wrote: »

GFA entries for London are only available to "UK residents"

yeah but you don't have to be a member of a club, should be the same for Dublin.

RacoonQueen

ooter wrote: »

yeah but you don't have to be a member of a club, should be the same for Dublin.

They have a separate championship entry for club runners in London and another entry system for club runners. Fact is, this is the national marathon champs, so club runners, no matter what their ability should be guaranteed entry, if this isn't the case then AI need to move the championship to an alternate race.

https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/british-athletics-club-entry/

https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/championship-entry/

Alicano

ted1 wrote: »

Barcelona 61.50
Lisbon 55
Copenhagen 93
Paris 90
Berlin 125
Riga 37
Milan 55

Frankfurt €75
Seville €65.. €26 for residents of Seville!! Imagine a discount for Dubs :D
93 is very steep IMO. Especially for what you get.

ooter

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Fact is, this is the national marathon champs, so club runners, no matter what their ability should be guaranteed entry]

I agree but if you are irish and not in a club and have a GFA time you should be guaranteed entry for dublin

skyblue46

As has been said there is a bit of an information vacuum surrounding the AI entries and GFA. It's probably fair to say that some medal winners in team national championships might not have achieved GFA times. I wonder if you do not meet the GFA standards so enter the lottery (assuming we know GFA times by Friday) and are a lucky winner will you then be allowed count in the Nationals or must you enter through the AI tranche to be in the Chamionships?

solidasarock

RacoonQueen wrote: »

They have a separate championship entry for club runners in London and another entry system for club runners. Fact is, this is the national marathon champs, so club runners, no matter what their ability should be guaranteed entry, if this isn't the case then AI need to move the championship to an alternate race.

https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/british-athletics-club-entry/

https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/championship-entry/

This is such a glaring gap that I wonder if Athletics Ireland even knew this was coming.

Everyone from the DCM side seem very unsure of themselves today. Not a lot of detail coming which isnt a great look considering I guess the lottery opens in 2 days.

I expect a whole lot of runners entering via their club and via the public lottery now too.

I would almost guess this change wasn't known outside the top brass until recently and the day to day organizers just told to make it work within the last few weeks.

Limpy

Any one have any stats that would show a team scorer not having a good for age time. BQ Chicago cut offs etc.

For instance Mary from ABC ac was 4th scorer in a time of 3:30 but her good for age time is 3:20.

skyblue46

solidasarock wrote: »

I expect a whole lot of runners entering via their club and via the public lottery now too.

Again the question is as the whether gaining entry by ballot would entitle you to entry in the Nationals or not.

skyblue46

Limpy wrote: »

Any one have any stats that would show a team scorer not having a good for age time. BQ Chicago cut offs etc.

For instance Mary from ABC ac was 4th scorer in a time of 3:30 but her good for age time is 3:20.

In 2018 Mens over 50 bronze winning team from East Down AC all finished with times outside London GFA for 50-54 male. Two had 3:17 and one 3:19. London GFA 3:15

If those GFA applied this year they might not have been able to defend their medals. Of 22 teams only the first two had 3 counting times under London GFA.

I think it's more an issue on the male side of things as the female GFA are quite generous in relation to medal winning performances.

However the National Championships is not just about winning, it's having the right to take part. Again as an example in the M40 team event the top 40 teams would have been unaffected by GFA but the remaining 260 teams would mostly have had problems.

Limpy

skyblue46 wrote: »

In 2018 Mens over 50 bronze winning team from East Down AC all finished with times outside London GFA for 50-54 male. Two had 3:17 and one 3:19. London GFA 3:15

If those GFA applied this year they might not have been able to defend their medals.

I think it's more an issue on the male side of things as the female GFA are quite generous in relation to medal winning performances.

However the National Championships is not just about winning, it's having the right to take part. Again as an example in the M40 team event the top 40 teams would have been unaffected by GFA but the remaining 260 teams would mostly have had problems.

Some clubs struggle with getting teams, and this won't help in anyway.

Imagine telling your kid or grandchildren you won a national medal but can't defend is as your not fast enough.

On the other hand if the cut offs were soft for all, and people knew if they were in a club they would get in it might improve club number's?

skyblue46

Limpy wrote: »

Some clubs struggle with getting teams, and this won't help in anyway.

Imagine telling your kid or grandchildren you won a national medal but can't defend is as your not fast enough.

On the other hand if the cut offs were soft for all, and people knew if they were in a club they would get in it might improve club number's?

It would be terrible in that scenario. But there are many more possible scenarios. I have no idea what this years times are yet but just to base it on 2018... 9:54 or thereabouts won a team bronze in M50. In my club we now have a 2:52 from last week. I have a 3:16 from last year and a friend has a 3:29. We could presently plan a go at getting a National Medal ( for one second ignore the fact that there are many others in the club of a similar ability). Using GFA London from last year would leave 2 of us ineligible.

Murph_D

Limpy wrote: »

Any one have any stats that would show a team scorer not having a good for age time. BQ Chicago cut offs etc.

For instance Mary from ABC ac was 4th scorer in a time of 3:30 but her good for age time is 3:20.

How can we do this when the GFA Times have not been announced?

Comparing to GFAs for other races is pointless, as those times are based on demand for the particular event.

RacoonQueen

ooter wrote: »

I agree but if you are irish and not in a club and have a GFA time you should be guaranteed entry for dublin

Yep, if they are going down this route, a GFA entry should be available for Irish residents who are non-club runners.
They would still have quite a sizeable 'ballot' entry outside of that, they could even ballot off more of these during the summer if club runners/GFA didn't take up all entries kept aside for them.

Murph_D wrote: »

How can we do this when the GFA Times have not been announced?

Comparing to GFAs for other races is pointless, as those times are based on demand for the particular event.

They really should have been announcing GFA times now, or at least very soon so people have time to go out and run them in Spring for an April entry system.

Murph_D

RacoonQueen wrote: »

They really should have been announcing GFA times now, or at least very soon so people have time to go out and run them in Spring for an April entry system.

Agree - or at least before ballot opens so club runners have an idea of whether to enter the lottery or not, as Skyblue mentioned above.

Vinnie222

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Yep, if they are going down this route, a GFA entry should be available for Irish residents who are non-club runners.
They would still have quite a sizeable 'ballot' entry outside of that, they could even ballot off more of these during the summer if club runners/GFA didn't take up all entries kept aside for them.



They really should have been announcing GFA times now, or at least very soon so people have time to go out and run them in Spring for an April entry system.

Good for age. Men Qualifying standard
Age 18-34 sub 3:00
Age 35-39 sub 3:02:30
Age 40-44 sub 3:05
Age 45-49 sub 3:10
Age 50-54 sub 3:15
Age 55-59 sub 3:20
Age 60-64 sub 3:45
Age 65-69 sub 4:00
Age 70-74 sub 5:00
Age 75-79 sub 5:15
Age 80+ sub 5:30
Women Qualifying standard
Age 18-34 sub 3:45
Age 35-39 sub 3:47:30
Age 40-44 sub 3:50
Age 45-49 sub 3:53
Age 50-54 sub 4:00
Age 55-59 sub 4:05
Age 60-64 sub 4:30
Age 65-69 sub 5:00
Age 70-74 sub 6:00
Age 75-79 sub 6:20
Age 80+ sub 6:40

For Dublin

skyblue46

Murph_D wrote: »

How can we do this when the GFA Times have not been announced?

Comparing to GFAs for other races is pointless, as those times are based on demand for the particular event.

I'm bored and indulging in a hypothetical discussion based on KSU saying that GFA might be similar to London/Boston etc...please allow me this little indulgence ;-)

skyblue46

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Good for age. Men Qualifying standard
Age 18-34 sub 3:00
Age 35-39 sub 3:02:30
Age 40-44 sub 3:05
Age 45-49 sub 3:10
Age 50-54 sub 3:15
Age 55-59 sub 3:20
Age 60-64 sub 3:45
Age 65-69 sub 4:00
Age 70-74 sub 5:00
Age 75-79 sub 5:15
Age 80+ sub 5:30
Women Qualifying standard
Age 18-34 sub 3:45
Age 35-39 sub 3:47:30
Age 40-44 sub 3:50
Age 45-49 sub 3:53
Age 50-54 sub 4:00
Age 55-59 sub 4:05
Age 60-64 sub 4:30
Age 65-69 sub 5:00
Age 70-74 sub 6:00
Age 75-79 sub 6:20
Age 80+ sub 6:40

For Dublin

For real???

That's half of Boards gone!!! Lottery here we come!!

Murph_D

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm bored and indulging in a hypothetical discussion based on KSU saying that GFA might be similar to London/Boston etc...please allow me this little indulgence ;-)

But Boston GFA is much easier than London. So is Chicago. NY a little easier, Berlin and Tokyo much harder. It’s not an even playing field!

skyblue46

Murph_D wrote: »

But Boston GFA is much easier than London. So is Chicago. NY a little easier, Berlin and Tokyo much harder. It’s not an even playing field!

Well if Vinnie above is right it will be a quite small Nationals in the Masters categories for men. I wonder will a lottery entry allow you to count for the club.

kerrylad1

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Good for age. Men Qualifying standard
Age 18-34 sub 3:00
Age 35-39 sub 3:02:30
Age 40-44 sub 3:05
Age 45-49 sub 3:10
Age 50-54 sub 3:15
Age 55-59 sub 3:20
Age 60-64 sub 3:45
Age 65-69 sub 4:00
Age 70-74 sub 5:00
Age 75-79 sub 5:15
Age 80+ sub 5:30
Women Qualifying standard
Age 18-34 sub 3:45
Age 35-39 sub 3:47:30
Age 40-44 sub 3:50
Age 45-49 sub 3:53
Age 50-54 sub 4:00
Age 55-59 sub 4:05
Age 60-64 sub 4:30
Age 65-69 sub 5:00
Age 70-74 sub 6:00
Age 75-79 sub 6:20
Age 80+ sub 6:40

For Dublin

If that is the GFA times,I will be in the over 45 category,with a sub 3,from Sunday,Does this mean sweet feckall,since I am not in a club?

Murph_D

skyblue46 wrote: »

For real???

That's half of Boards gone!!! Lottery here we come!!

Those are the London times. Makes no sense to base National champs on those. For a start, we don’t have that many categories in the championships, even if the times made any sense.

Vinnie222

Murph_D wrote: »

Those are the London times. Makes no sense to base National champs on those. For a start, we don’t have that many categories in the championships, even if the times made any sense.

Club was emailed them earlier.

skyblue46

kerrylad1 wrote: »

If that is the GFA times,I will be in the over 45 category,with a sub 3,from yesterday.Does this mean sweet feckall,since I am not in a club?

It seems the only entry for non club runners is via ballot...

Murph_D

kerrylad1 wrote: »

If that is the GFA times,I will be in the over 45 category,with a sub 3,from Sunday,Does this mean sweet feckall,since I am not in a club?

You have to be in a club to enter the championships.

skyblue46

Murph_D wrote: »

Those are the London times. Makes no sense to base National champs on those. For a start, we don’t have that many categories in the championships, even if the times made any sense.

If those are true it's not fair to have DCM as a national championship any more. It rules out too many in my opinion.

Murph_D

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Club was emailed them earlier.

Well they make no sense. They’ll have to abolish the masters teams because many clubs won’t be able to make up a team at all.

skyblue46

Murph_D wrote: »

Well they make no sense. They’ll have to abolish the masters teams because many clubs won’t be able to make up a team at all.

It is nuts if true!! It would decimate entries.

Vinnie222

Murph_D wrote: »

Well they make no sense. They’ll have to abolish the masters teams because many clubs won’t be able to make up a team at all.

There will be 2 lottos.... Further to the recent announcement by KBC Dublin Marathon there are some points to note for AAI athletes.

· Athletes can enter the KBC Dublin marathon lottery system from November the 1st to register their interest in the 2020 marathon.

· A SMS will be sent to you the week of January 3rd if you have been accepted into the 2020 KBC Dublin Marathon. Prior to this date you must be registered with Athletics Ireland for the 2020 calendar.

In addition to the lottery system opening on the 1st of November. KBC Dublin Marathon will also have an exclusive AAI member lottery in April. To enter this lottery AAI members must have reached a good of age standard (see attached) in a previous recognised marathon. All athletes registered members of their club to enter the AAI members lottery.

1st part of the email.

skyblue46

Hopefully part 2 has some good news...

nannerby

So the aai members are still in a lottery and not garuanteed entry?

skyblue46

nannerby wrote: »

So the aai members are still in a lottery and not garuanteed entry?

They are with those times!!

I notice there is no reference to it being the Nationals...

Vinnie222

skyblue46 wrote: »

Hopefully part 2 has some good news...

Part 2 was the Good for age post

The way I look at it is that if you are not successful in the 1st lottery and have ran the Good for age time ran you probably be guaranteed an entry in the 2nd lottery.

Murph_D

nannerby wrote: »

So the aai members are still in a lottery and not garuanteed entry?

If Vinnie’s email turns out to be true, it means club members with London GFAs will be guarantee entry if unsuccessful in the lottery. That’s how I’d interpret it anyway. It doesn’t look like an official release however, from the somewhat confusing language.

skyblue46

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Part 2 was the Good for age post

The way I look at it is that if you are not successful in the 1st lottery and have ran the Good for age time you probably be guaranteed an entry in the 2nd lottery.

But...but...but...the times! If DCM is still the Nationals it's now an elitist event.

Another question, not specific to Dublin. In following many sports I regularly see a figure of 10/11% accepted as an approximate difference between the sexes. Why do GFA not reflect this?

skyblue46

Murph_D wrote: »

If Vinnie’s email turns out to be true, it means club members with London GFAs will be guarantee entry if unsuccessful in the lottery. That’s how I’d interpret it anyway. It doesn’t look like an official release however, from the somewhat confusing language.

I admire your calm. Haha. I have no intention of running it but still find myself getting upset.