Whingy Returning Emigrants

vriesmays

Rename this thread 'go to college, do a masters, travel, come back and now you're 30'.

NSAman

AS someone who has travelled more than most, I kinda have a "little" sympathy for yer wan.....

When you travel (and you have not done so before) you get that sense of euphoria at having experienced new things and a new way of living.

New York was my first place to live in abroad. It spoiled me. There was so much to do as someone in their early twenties.

I came home eventually and started life again and got back into the swing of things.

My next foray abroad was to a completely difference part of the world Africa. Which taught me loads of things about myself, self reliance, nothing is NOT available to you in life if you reach for it and also the fact that people are the most important thing in this world.

Seeing the absolute worst of people but also how good people can be, was hard to get your head around.

I had to return home due to a family crisis. That "itchy" feet syndrome still haunted me for years.

I have lived in Europe and Asia also so this feeling of not being settled has never left me.... up until I moved to the States a few years ago.

Being "young" this woman has yet to experience life. (I know some will say that 30 is not young). I can honestly say, I didnt know what I wanted out of life until I was in my 30s. Yes she is obviously immature and has yet to experience life to it's fullest... so I will give her a little leeway on that score. However, she has opened herself up for criticism based on a very silly, naive and (in my opinion) immature piece of writing.

Until she has experienced proper poverty, violence and suffering but also the kindness and generosity of the human spirit that this world has to offer, she will have rose tinted glasses on based on a limited experience in life.

New York is a fantastic city, there is no doubt BUT it is only one experience in this world. That experience does come with age..;)

Lillyfae

PostWoke wrote: »

What do you think age has to do with it? Are we supposed to stop crying when we're upset at some age? Maybe you're just dead inside?

To be fair, it should happen when exiting the toddler stage. Am I right?

James Brown

BloodyBill wrote: »

Both O Toole and Kerrigan are unreconstructed Trotskyites... they may be sceptical but they are hardly above the parapet considering 95% of journalists are lefties anyway.

TBF, their job is to report the facts. No job for a right winger

That said grads, (who can afford it) are grand lads for taking a year out in Asia or somewhere so they can come back and pontificate to working stiffs about how possessions are shackles or some sh*te, move back in with the folks and get a job with Daddy.

Raconteuse

riemann wrote: »

Eh what?

Face like a slapped arse, with a personality to match.

She looks totally fine. Absolutely insufferable going by that piece (the stuff she lists that made her days so full in NYC are just mundane things people do in any city, big or small) but her (perfectly normal) looks are irrelevant.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Raconteuse wrote: »

She looks totally fine. Absolutely insufferable going by that piece (the stuff she lists that made her days so full in NYC are just mundane things people do in any city, big or small) but her looks are irrelevant.

I dunno. I’m a big believer in people’s personalities coming through in their faces. It’s not really about their looks, rather their expressions.

PostWoke

Lillyfae wrote: »

To be fair, it should happen when exiting the toddler stage. Am I right?

Um, no, not at all???????????????????????

You're thinking of toilet training.

tdf7187

BloodyBill wrote: »

Both O Toole and Kerrigan are unreconstructed Trotskyites... they may be sceptical but they are hardly above the parapet considering 95% of journalists are lefties anyway.

Rubbish. O'Toole is a left leaning social democrat. Kerrigan is basically a centrist, perhaps mildly left of centre, who critiques corruption and usually he is correct and on-the-ball, even if one doesn't agree with his politics. Neither are anything close to being 'unreconstructed Trotskyites'. But hey keep voting UKIP, they'll protect you from the commies under your bed no doubt.

Il Trap

I live in the States and would love to go home more than anything. The US is a cold, individualistic society when it comes down to it. A lot of people here feign love of their country, but when it comes down to hard, cold dollars and weird sacred cows (the military obsession; Christian fundamentalism; "innovation", the American dream BS) many will trample over the vulnerable and most turn a blind eye. The hypocrisy of the place melts my head sometimes.

I read one IT returning emigrant article lately where the author said the one true commonality that Irish people and Americans share is use of the English language. After four years here, I'm minded to agree. Looking forward to the day when I can do a Nollaig (Belfast sounds pretty good, in fairness); circumstances currently make it difficult, though.

Paddy Cow

Il Trap wrote: »

I live in the States and would love to go home more than anything. The US is a cold, individualistic society when it comes down to it. A lot of people here feign love of their country, but when it comes down to hard, cold dollars and weird sacred cows (the military obsession; Christian fundamentalism; "innovation", the American dream BS) many will trample over the vulnerable and most turn a blind eye. The hypocrisy of the place melts my head sometimes.

I read one IT returning emigrant article lately where the author said the one true commonality that Irish people and Americans share is use of the English language. After four years here, I'm minded to agree. Looking forward to the day when I can do a Nollaig (Belfast sounds pretty good, in fairness); circumstances currently make it difficult, though.

I don't understand what that means. Sure we both speak English but there are huge colloquial differences

Il Trap

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I don't understand what that means. Sure we both speak English but there are huge colloquial differences

There was of course a touch of hyperbole in that statement. Who mentioned colloquial differences? No one would dispute that.

Paddy Cow

Il Trap wrote: »

There was of course a touch of hyperbole in that statement. Who mentioned colloquial differences? No one would dispute that.

I still don't understand it. Is the subtle meaning that we only share the english language? I'm at a loss here. The statement I bolded makes less sense to me than the article in question. I can at least understand where Nollaig is coming from but what you said makes no sense to me whatsoever. I'm not having a go. I just don't get it.

NSAman

Il Trap wrote: »

I live in the States and would love to go home more than anything. The US is a cold, individualistic society when it comes down to it. A lot of people here feign love of their country, but when it comes down to hard, cold dollars and weird sacred cows (the military obsession; Christian fundamentalism; "innovation", the American dream BS) many will trample over the vulnerable and most turn a blind eye. The hypocrisy of the place melts my head sometimes.

I read one IT returning emigrant article lately where the author said the one true commonality that Irish people and Americans share is use of the English language. After four years here, I'm minded to agree. Looking forward to the day when I can do a Nollaig (Belfast sounds pretty good, in fairness); circumstances currently make it difficult, though.

I actually 100% agree with you on the first part of this post.

i will disagree with you on the second part. We may speak English, but the sheer stupidity and lack of vocabulary of the average American is shocking. If it requires basic English they are fine, but it is SO difficult as an Irish person living here to come down to that level of English.

There are many great points about the US. The ability to make a great living here is simple. The ability to do things without worrying about how much it costs, makes life freer.

However, I agree with you about the mind melting aspects of the society. They drive me absolutely crazy.

Atlantic Dawn

Between economic migrants, returning emigrants and people de likes of Google and Facebook import here we have too much coming in to support, it should be discouraged.

NSAman

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Between economic migrants, returning emigrants and people de likes of Google and Facebook import here we have too much coming in to support, it should be discouraged.

No need to support some of us when we return AD, I already support enough people in Ireland personally. Thanks, but I don’t need your support.;)

ancapailldorcha

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Between economic migrants, returning emigrants and people de likes of Google and Facebook import here we have too much coming in to support, it should be discouraged.

So you support the status quo of the Irish taxpayer footing the bill for the University degrees that other countries will reap the benefits from?

171170

partyguinness wrote: »

Really? Because the generation currently in charge are doing such a sterling job.

The 'Baby Boomer' generation are the generation that had it the best and what have they done? Sucked the life and wealth up and pulled up the ladder on their children and grandchildren.

When these children and grandchildren are forced to move abroad or live at home because of extortionate house prices they sit around slagging them off for being lazy and weak while making sure their own nests all well feathered with ring fenced pensions and huge equity.

Ah, but looking on the bright side, they'll all be replaced by all these wonderful, multi-skilled "asylum seekers" aka "economic migrants" aka "illegal immigrants" that Leo and Co. are so anxious to put out the Céad Míle Fáilte mats for.

171170

Matt Barrett wrote: »

TBF, their job is to report the facts. No job for a right winger

No it isn't!

Neither Kerrigan nor O'Fool are reporters, rather they're Op Ed writers whose role is to churn out regular commentaries on their partisan and frequently cyclopean perceptions of reality.

In Kerrigan's case he appears to have a library of well-used columns which he merely needs to tweak whenever different elements of different components of "Official Ireland" repeat the same shabby/incompetent actions.

Il Trap

NSAman wrote: »

I actually 100% agree with you on the first part of this post.

i will disagree with you on the second part. We may speak English, but the sheer stupidity and lack of vocabulary of the average American is shocking. If it requires basic English they are fine, but it is SO difficult as an Irish person living here to come down to that level of English.

There are many great points about the US. The ability to make a great living here is simple. The ability to do things without worrying about how much it costs, makes life freer.

However, I agree with you about the mind melting aspects of the society. They drive me absolutely crazy.

I think I need to qualify "use of the English language" - as in Americans speak English and so do we. I certainly was not insinuating there is a comparable linguistic depth between Irish and American use of English. And the IT contributor I referred to who originally made that comparison was a writer herself (name escapes me), so it's safe to say that difference was not lost on her.

Always Tired

NSAman wrote: »

I actually 100% agree with you on the first part of this post.

i will disagree with you on the second part. We may speak English, but the sheer stupidity and lack of vocabulary of the average American is shocking. If it requires basic English they are fine, but it is SO difficult as an Irish person living here to come down to that level of English.

Having lived in both countries there is absolutely not a superior grasp of the English language by Irish people. It's pretty even.

The amount of people in Ireland who can't use been/being correctly still shocks me. Eg: saying, 'After been here 13 years' etc instead of being. Basically confusing it with as if you were saying 'Having been here 13 years.'

And that mistake is so common because people here don't pronounce any words ending in 'ing' correctly. Nor do they pronounce 'th' sounds. They don't realize it, but saying 'brudder', 'udder' (when not speaking of cows, 'togedder' and tree instead of three make you sound to people from outside of Ireland like you are a child with a speech impediment.

Various studies have shown people tend to overestimate their own intelligence and I think that's what's happening here. There are plenty of idiots on both sides of the pond but you are more likely to notice and look upon with disdain, those that are different from you.

It's like those that say the yanks don't have a sense of humor. While the vast majority of successful comedy shows and films are made there. We have Father Ted that's it, and unfortunately the Irish sense of humor is usually more of the low hanging fruit variety on show in the likes of Mrs. Brown's boys.

NSAman

Always Tired wrote: »

Various studies have shown people tend to overestimate their own intelligence and I think that's what's happening here.

Thanks for the insult. I have never claimed to be intelligent and living here, in the USA, affirms my lack of intelligence completely.

NSAman

NSAman wrote: »

No need to support some of us when we return AD, I already support enough people in Ireland personally. Thanks, but I don’t need your support.;)

Ditto.. And I don't live in Ireland, with no plans to return in the foreseeable future.

Homelander

I actually laughed at the utter absurdity of that article. I almost wish it was deliberate trolling, because I want to believe nobody could be that utterly lacking in self-awareness and cop on, surely.

I would say, even if written with genuine intention, the content of this hilarious millenial tale of woe is a healthy combination of half-truths, mistruths, and outright lies.

Il Trap

Always Tired wrote: »

Having lived in both countries there is absolutely not a superior grasp of the English language by Irish people. It's pretty even.

The amount of people in Ireland who can't use been/being correctly still shocks me. Eg: saying, 'After been here 13 years' etc instead of being. Basically confusing it with as if you were saying 'Having been here 13 years.'

And that mistake is so common because people here don't pronounce any words ending in 'ing' correctly. Nor do they pronounce 'th' sounds. They don't realize it, but saying 'brudder', 'udder' (when not speaking of cows, 'togedder' and tree instead of three make you sound to people from outside of Ireland like you are a child with a speech impediment.

Various studies have shown people tend to overestimate their own intelligence and I think that's what's happening here. There are plenty of idiots on both sides of the pond but you are more likely to notice and look upon with disdain, those that are different from you.

It's like those that say the yanks don't have a sense of humor. While the vast majority of successful comedy shows and films are made there. We have Father Ted that's it, and unfortunately the Irish sense of humor is usually more of the low hanging fruit variety on show in the likes of Mrs. Brown's boys.

Regarding the "average" levels of proficiency, having taught English in both countries, I disagree.

Edgware

171170 wrote: »

Ah, but looking on the bright side, they'll all be replaced by all these wonderful, multi-skilled "asylum seekers" aka "economic migrants" aka "illegal immigrants" that Leo and Co. are so anxious to put out the Céad Míle Fáilte mats for.

Hopefully they will improve the gene pool and reduce the level of inbdreeding by village idiots that produced you

Homelander

Il Trap wrote: »

Regarding the "average" levels of proficiency, having taught English in both countries, I disagree.

Ireland is a tiny country of about 5m. The United States is virtually a continent with a population of 330m. The cliché's about American's are no more broadly true about the average American than the cliché's about the average Irish person abroad.

Il Trap

Homelander wrote: »

Ireland is a tiny country of about 5m. The United States is virtually a continent with a population of 330m. The clich about American's are no more broadly true about the average American than the clich about the average Irish person abroad.

I'm referring to the experience of several years teaching composition to American students of nearly all ages and demographics and similar in Ireland before. If that can at all be considered representative, then I stand by the point that I consider, on average, Irish people to have a somewhat stronger grasp of the mechanics of the language and greater variety and nuance in their fluency using it, particularly the second part.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Il Trap wrote: »

I'm referring to the experience of several years teaching composition to American students of nearly all ages and demographics and similar in Ireland before. If that can at all be considered representative, then I stand by the point that I consider, on average, Irish people to have a somewhat stronger grasp of the mechanics of the language and greater variety and nuance in their fluency using it, particularly the second part.

Your personal experience is almost certainly not representative, given the wide variety of educational institutions in the US. Someone teaching at Yale will encounter an entirely different caliber of student than someone at Hudson County Community College, just as someone teaching in a high school in Greenwich, Connecticut, will have an entirely different experience than someone in Selma, Alabama.

There is no way that, within the space of several years, you could have taught almost all age groups and demographic groups across two different countries.

Irish students no longer have a good grasp of mechanics. Because that aspect accounts for just 10 percent of the marks in the Leaving Cert, a student can walk out with an excellent grade in higher-level English despite being unable to use a semicolon or distinguish among "their," "there," and "they're."

In 2011, DCU's journalism lecturers started to place more emphasis on basic writing skills:

DECLINING LITERACY standards among school-leavers have prompted a Dublin university to allocate more time to the teaching of basic writing skills to first-year journalism students.

Dublin City University’s BA in journalism programme is to place greater emphasis on writing skills to help students overcome what the college has described as “gaps in their grasp of basic English, including spelling, grammar, punctuation and word usage”.

The college said lecturers had noticed growing numbers of students were having difficulties.

From next autumn, the time spent on the course module covering English language usage will increase by 50 per cent.

Patrick Kinsella, head of the university’s school of communications, said lecturers were spending an inordinate amount of time correcting errors and improving the basic writing skills of students.

Disturbingly, these students required a minimum B grade in higher-level English and 445 CAO points just to get on the course. If even the best students are struggling with basic writing skills, we can assume that the situation of the average student is dire indeed.

Paddy Cow

June Cold Fighter wrote: »

Disturbingly, these students required a minimum B grade in higher-level English and 445 CAO points just to get on the course. If even the best students are struggling with basic writing skills, we can assume that the situation of the average student is dire indeed.

It's not just aspiring journalists that don't have a good grasp of the English language. I read the Daily Mail (yes I know it's shyte but whatever) and in nearly every article there are glaring grammar mistakes. What makes it worse is it's the online version I read, so they could go back and correct the mistakes (which are constantly pointed out in the comments) but they don't.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Paddy Cow wrote: »

It's not just aspiring journalists that don't have a good grasp of the English language. I read the Daily Mail (yes I know it's shyte but whatever) and in nearly every article there are glaring grammar mistakes. What makes it worse is it's the online version I read, so they could go back and correct the mistakes (which are constantly pointed out in the comments) but they don't.

It's not just the Daily Mail, either. Even the Irish Times, the supposed "paper of record," is riddled with errors.