Northern Ireland Westminster General Election

liamtech

NIMAN wrote: »

Another shocking turn in Foyle to highlight potential dodgy dealings.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50732660

I think its fairly clear who the finger is being pointed at.

its a ridiculous scheme but i wouldnt be 100% certain it is SF - Aontu, DUP, - all possible

The thing is this is so OBVIOUSLY a scam/smear that it is hard to see what effect it could have- unless it can be genuinely traced i think take this as a smear against the SDLP - by opponents of said party (its such a ridiculous letter that actually laughed out loud when i read it)

Not going to make any difference to voters i would think- interested to see what people have to say

FrancieBrady

Bloody unionists...always squabbling.

liamtech

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bloody unionists...always squabbling.

Agreed - but from a Unionist POV, that was a solid right hook from Aiken - i let out a yelp when he took out the Newsletter from Oct 2nd

FrancieBrady

liamtech wrote: »

Agreed - but from a Unionist POV, that was a solid right hook from Aiken - i let out a yelp when he took out the Newsletter from Oct 2nd

Aiken is at his best and most animated when attacking the DUP. Flails around otherwise.

liamtech

O Neill took some blows there - held up well but still several landed - mainly from Eastwood -

Donaldson wont answer the question on what he will ACTUALLY do if the Brexit agreement passes -

Not gonna rank anyone yet but Donaldson is having a stinker of an evening

Naomi long - is kinda annoying tonight - very shouty, similar to the UTV debate

Aiken doing FAR BETTER than i have seen him

Eastwood very effective - leading the race tonight in my book

FrancieBrady

liamtech wrote: »

O Neill took some blows there - held up well but still several landed - mainly from Eastwood -

Donaldson wont answer the question on what he will ACTUALLY do if the Brexit agreement passes -

Not gonna rank anyone yet but Donaldson is having a stinker of an evening

Naomi long - is kinda annoying tonight - very shouty, similar to the UTV debate

Aiken doing FAR BETTER than i have seen him

Eastwood very effective - leading the race tonight in my book

Aiken winning this one. Put Donaldson and Long down very well there. Eastwood much better and I hold by my opinion of O'Neill, she is not strong enough.

Francie Barrett

O'Neill very lightweight there. Thought Aiken came off well.

kerosene

I thought Oneill done well, and I would have been critical of her in the past. I expected more of Eastwood, thought he was too focused on sf abstention policy.

Long probably the most impressive of the leaders, Aiken landed a few blows on Donaldson and depressing to think dup will still be the largest party.

liamtech

This was a better debate than the UTV one - thats my genuine opinion straight off the bat

Winner: Eastwood - edged it in my mind - was very confident and made his points well

2nd: Aiken - honestly from a unionist POV, where has 'this' Steven Aiken been since this election campaign started - Honestly MOST impressive league climber in terms of debates

3rd: Michelle O Neill - no doubt in my mind why she was challenged for Deputy Leadership now - very week - Hazard was MUCH more convincing on a Newsnight special a few weeks ago on abstentionism - and allowed Donaldson back in to the debate over stormont

4th: Long - always feel sorry for her but she was just too screechy - and thats not an ad hominem - she is just too loud, and domineering tonight

5th: Donaldson - only managed a moment of credibility thanks to Michellle O Neill - deserves last place for being inept in his defense of Brexit - refusal to answer question on what happens after Brexit actually goes through, and generally being almost ridiculous in his answering of questions - Aiken CRUCIFIED him from a Unionist POV

Anyway thats my view - interested to see what everyone else thought

FrancieBrady

Aitken was the revelation for me. Gave a weak Donaldson no quarter at all on any topic.

Long is beginning to sound like a waffler, full of how things should be but with very little idea of how to deal with things as they are...the Alliance dilemna.

O'Neill/Eastwood I would say were evens again. Eastwood got ruffled a few times.

liamtech

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Aitken was the revelation for me. Gave a weak Donaldson no quarter at all on any topic.

Long is beginning to sound like a waffler, full of how things should be but with very little idea of how to deal with things as they are...the Alliance dilemna.

O'Neill/Eastwood I would say were evens again. Eastwood got ruffled a few times.

Its interesting and i agree on Aiken - and Long in fairness

Donaldson was terrible - totally dodged the question on Brexit, and its a shame the presenter let him away with it

"What will you do if a Tory Majority gets this Brexit deal through" - "we will stop it or amend it".. same basic question 3 times - same dodge each time

I would have to disagree on Eastwood V O'Neill - think Eastwood was far better - but its up for debate i guess

kerosene

I thought Oneill definitely shaded Eastwood. I was expecting a lot more from him, I thought he got sidetracked (especially at the start) with Sf abstention policy. Sf voters are well aware what they are voting for regarding Westminster representation.

FrancieBrady

liamtech wrote: »

Its interesting and i agree on Aiken - and Long in fairness

Donaldson was terrible - totally dodged the question on Brexit, and its a shame the presenter let him away with it

"What will you do if a Tory Majority gets this Brexit deal through" - "we will stop it or amend it".. same basic question 3 times - same dodge each time

I would have to disagree on Eastwood V O'Neill - think Eastwood was far better - but its up for debate i guess

Eastwood, like Hanna is very good on a one to one interview but not very good in debates that I have seen him in. He allowed himself to get risen a few times tonight and didn't come off well when he did. I think O'Neill chewed him up on SF achieving much more in Dublin and Brussels than Westminster tbh. The DUP are where they are because of it.

markodaly

A little bit more details have come out about the last poll.

https://twitter.com/LucidTalk/status/1204482069818204160

Some close calls in there, but it looks like

DUP 10 (nc)
SF 6 (-1)
SDLP 2 (+2)

Alliance falling just short on two seats, but their vote will have gone up but still all to play for in a few seats.

liamtech

If anyone is interested, perhaps as a result of Tonights Debate - Jamie Bryson is having a meltdown on twitter

15 tweets in an hour or two - highlights include

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1204535194440605704

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1204533798295224321

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1204528015415361537

Im not following him btw! lol - I just find his tweets to be hilarious most of the time - his 'pan national republican alliance' gains new members every few days - the EU.. the Alliance party.. the Irish Government.. The Charity Commision Northern Ireland..

Im waiting for 'Elvis', UFO's and Russia -

NIMAN

He really is a sad case......imagine if your entire life purpose was to be ultra-British..just that and nothing else.

liamtech

NIMAN wrote: »

He really is a sad case......imagine if your entire life purpose was to be ultra-British..just that and nothing else.

It just becomes more and more ludicrous every day - and i especially love his trademark piece - goes something like

'Im not a member of the UVF (or insert other loyalist paramilitary group), and i wouldn't endorse violence..... BUT [goes on to state they are correct, heroes, and implicitly threaten violence and or disobedience]'

https://twitter.com/sme30/status/1204533793652011008

markodaly

Seems Eastwood and Long have come out on top in the post debate poll.

https://twitter.com/LucidTalk/status/1204540287864979458

Nidgeweasel

Think Colum will almost certainly take Foyle tbh. He's handled himself very well throughout the whole campaign.

SDLP winning Foyle and South Belfast is a good return.

FrancieBrady

Alliance on Twitter claiming latest poll puts North Down at 40% Alliance - 40% DUP

That would be some result.

Nidgeweasel

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Alliance on Twitter claiming latest poll puts North Down at 40% Alliance - 40% DUP

That would be some result.

It would be a phenomenal achievement. The DUP have almost certainly factored in South Belfast / North Down as a straight swap. I do think Easton will win with a bit to spare but it would be one of the stories of the election if he didnt.

FrancieBrady

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

It would be a phenomenal achievement. The DUP have almost certainly factored in South Belfast / North Down as a straight swap. I do think Easton will win with a bit to spare but it would be one of the stories of the election if he didnt.

Whether it is a real switch to Alliance or just a lend of a vote, it would be very welcome for those of us who fear the effects of Brexit.

An Ciarraioch

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Alliance on Twitter claiming latest poll puts North Down at 40% Alliance - 40% DUP

That would be some result.

Yes - constituency page of the Electoral Calculus poll.

Mr.Nice Guy

Watched the debate last night and thought Donaldson was the worst of the five. He seemed rattled by Aiken's comments and looked like a deer in the headlights over the climate question. Sammy Wilson's thoughts haven't helped the DUP's case here.

Aiken was lively and came off better than in the one-to-one interviews, but didn't think he said anything substantial that would resonate with people.

Long had a solid performance but would have expected her to be a bit better. She seems a bit jaded to me in this campaign. Maybe the workload of the last 12 months is a factor as she's basically carrying her party. Alliance desperately needs some new faces. Other than maybe Stephen Farry I can't think of anyone else in the party. They used to have more memorable politiians like David Ford and Anna Lo. It's becoming a bit like the Naomi Long show these days.

Was surprised by O'Neill as I don't often think much of her in debates but thought she came off well. She dealt with the the Irish language act question well. Her body language was good for the most part. Bit of a weak moment near the end where she told Donaldson not to shout at her (didn't think he was tbf).

Eastwood was interesting; for me he had probably the best answers, but also, bar Donaldson, probably the worst demeanour. He's a guy that would do well with a bit of coaching as when he gets challenged he gets very defensive and agitated. It's a pity because I think he's sincere in his convictions and he had some good one liners like when he brought up O'Neill's recent rival for the leadership, John O'Dowd, to her: 'you know John O'Dowd'. He needs to loosen up a bit and smile more as the others looked more warm and gregarious. He's in danger of turning into Derry's version of Jeremy Corbyn.

circadian

I agree that Colum could do with coaching. I say this as a Derry man myself, he holds himself like a lot of us would when debating. It comes across as defensive and aggressive but it usually isn't, but that doesn't translate well on a bigger stage.

My wife often comments on how harsh my friends and family are to one another when having a discussion or debate, she thinks we're arguing like mad when it's just how a lot of people in Derry are.

I think Colum handled himself well and he's good at sticking to his guns and getting his point across. It seems the BBC are stoking the fires of this "pan nationalist front" idea every time he's on, despite Colum explaining quite clearly that this is purely tactical for this election.

kerosene

I saw Eastwood wipe the floor with Donaldson earlier in the election campaign, and was expecting him to be really strong on tuesday evening.

In hindsight I probably underestimated how poor Donaldson actually was.

FrancieBrady

kerosene wrote: »

I saw Eastwood wipe the floor with Donaldson earlier in the election campaign, and was expecting him to be really strong on tuesday evening.

In hindsight I probably underestimated how poor Donaldson actually was.

In fairness they all seemed more intent in getting at their rivals, Unionist pitted themselves against unionist and nationalist/republican against nationalist. Did Eastwood even engage Donaldson on a point?

kerosene

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In fairness they all seemed more intent in getting at their rivals, Unionist pitted themselves against unionist and nationalist/republican against nationalist. Did Eastwood even engage Donaldson on a point?

I'd agree with that point. I thought Naomi Long started well, but got kind off isolated to a degree, as the 2 unionist leaders were having a go at each other and similar with sdlp and sf.

FrancieBrady

kerosene wrote: »

I'd agree with that point. I thought Naomi Long started well, but got kind off isolated to a degree, as the 2 unionist leaders were having a go at each other and similar with sdlp and sf.

The Alliance are like a holiday home for people who want a break from the real issues.
They talk around them invariably.

darem93

My massively Republican workmate told me today that she voted for Alliance this morning. It did shock me a bit as she knows how tight the seat is between Gildernew and Elliott.