Northern Ireland Westminster General Election

darem93

beggars_bush wrote: »

well a vote for Sinn Fein in a Westminster election is a wasted vote

I think sending anyone from Ireland to Wesminster is a waste to be fair. You have to look no further than the DUP, they were propping up the entire government over there and that didn't work out too well for them.

The SNP is another great example. They're Scotland's biggest representative party and yet as Annd9 has pointed out, every time they speak they're jeered at, undermined and other MPs even walk out.

darem93

darem93 wrote: »

I think sending anyone from Ireland to Wesminster is a waste to be fair. You have to look no further than the DUP, they were propping up the entire government over there and that didn't work out too well for them.

The SNP is another great example. They're Scotland's biggest representative party and yet as Annd9 has pointed out, every time they speak they're jeered at, undermined and other MPs even walk out.

IF Inderef#2 is not sanctioned the SNP need to take a leaf out of the IP and Daniel O'Connell's playbook. Filibuster and make a general nuisance of oneself.

I'd put on the (anachronistic) braveheart face paint and waffle on about the lesser known tartan's and their importance to ancient scottish political allegiance. But, throw in some haggis titbits to keep it interesting.

That'll learn them!

BonnieSituation

beggars_bush wrote: »

imagine voting for a small party in the ROI who get 4-5 seats and all those TDs never turning up to the Dail?
but claiming expenses and a salary

thats basically what SF do in Westminster

It basically isn't. You really haven't a notion tbf.

McMurphy

liamtech wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1205463637705535488

Poor Jamie seems to ripping himself apart -

I've been wondering for ages if that's actually a parody account.

One of the replies to his rants had me buckled in two.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

Great election result.

DUP down 5% and two seats, Sinn Fein down nearly 7%, absolutely delighted for the both of them.

2 SDLP and 1 Alliance, the voice of Northern Ireland will be heard again.

Combined nationalist vote down 4%, as the Northern Irish vote for the middle.

Expect DUP and SF to cobble together a Stormont deal as neither will want a drubbing in Assembly elections. They will vote to keep their privileges

Where do you believe the voice of Northern Ireland will be heard again?


Boris and his ilk have shown they do not give two hoots for the DUP and their precious union. 2 SDLP and 1 Alliance with this Tory majority are not going to fare any better.
If I was a British taxpayer I would be hoping they all took a leaf out of SF`s book, stayed home and didn`t draw their salaries.


The only possible place for Northern Ireland`s voice to be heard and have any meaning now is in Dáil Éireann, but the DUP are living to far back in their bigoted past to realise that.
With the results of this election, the DUP are a spent docket with nowhere else to turn.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

Combined nationalist vote down 4%, as the Northern Irish vote for the middle.

It's good to see that you've abandoned any hope that Unionists can prevent the inexorable decoupling of the north from Britain and now seek comfort in the election of two Irish Nationalists and a neutral to Westminster. Achingly slow progress but progress all the same.

What we will see in the coming years is a further stitching together of the all Ireland economy to the point when any divergence of the northeast from the rest of the country will become economically and politically implausible.

liamtech

https://twitter.com/loughran_gary/status/1205510756197908480

Im sorry cant help it today:D:pac:

AMAZING night for NI elections - That and the SNP are the silver linings of BoJos Brexit

beggars_bush

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It basically isn't. You really haven't a notion tbf.

Explain what they do then?

BonnieSituation

beggars_bush wrote: »

Explain what they do then?

They represent their constituents wishes by abstaining from taking their seats in the HOC.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

They represent their constituents wishes by abstaining from taking their seats in the HOC.

Somebody is naive enough to think that the only thing an MP or TD does is stand or sit in the parliament. There is much much more to the job than that and SF do the representation part as much as anyone else does.

171170

BonnieSituation wrote: »

They represent their constituents wishes by abstaining from taking their seats in the HOC.

Not so.

They represent their voters' interests by abstaining from the parliament to which they were elected.

And by doing so, they are disregarding the interests of those constituents who did not vote for them and who have both a right and an expectation to be represented in their parliament.

But your spinning is taken verbatim from the Sinn Fein primer for dealing with awkward questions.

The fact that those constituents who didn't vote for them are thereby disenfranchised matters not one whit to the vermin who blather on about parity of esteem for both traditions.

FrancieBrady

171170 wrote: »

Not so.

They represent their voters' interests by abstaining from the parliament to which they were elected.

And by doing so, they are disregarding the interests of those constituents who did not vote for them and who have both a right and an expectation to be represented in their parliament.

But your spinning is taken verbatim from the Sinn Fein primer for dealing with awkward questions.

The fact that those constituents who didn't vote for them are thereby disenfranchised matters not one whit to the vermin who blather on about parity of esteem for both traditions.

That is another harsh reality of partition sadly. When you corral people into a state they don't want to be in, don't expect a 'democracy' like every where else.

charlie14

171170 wrote: »

Not so.

They represent their voters' interests by abstaining from the parliament to which they were elected.

And by doing so, they are disregarding the interests of those constituents who did not vote for them and who have both a right and an expectation to be represented in their parliament.

But your spinning is taken verbatim from the Sinn Fein primer for dealing with awkward questions.

The fact that those constituents who didn't vote for them are thereby disenfranchised matters not one whit to the vermin who blather on about parity of esteem for both traditions.

Not a lot of point having a go at SF when the DUP took their seats in the last British GE and not only ignored the vote of the majority in NI to remain in the EU, but actively supported a hard Brexit.


I would also doubt the DUP give much regard for nationalists interests in constituencies where they did not vote for the DUP.

kerosene

I cannot understand the condemnation of Sf regarding not taking their seats at Westminster, when every single person who votes for them is aware of their policy.

Surely if they accepted votes from voters in the 6 counties, then decided to take the oath of allegiance in Westminster, they would be deceiving their electorate.

Another poster "accumulator" I think, was giving the sdlp a good chance in south down. In hindsight Margaret Ritchie taking a seat in the house of lords might have cost Savage taking a third seat for the sdlp.

I would be a floater voter between both sdlp and sf but Ritchie taking a seat in the house of lords would probably have put me off sdlp to be honest.

WhiteMan32

Newsline on BBC1 NI was extended this evening. Three out of the four NI parties who won seats put forward a member for interview by the newscaster. The party who failed to provide a representative for interview was....... the DUP

BonnieSituation

171170 wrote: »

Not so.

They represent their voters' interests by abstaining from the parliament to which they were elected.

And by doing so, they are disregarding the interests of those constituents who did not vote for them and who have both a right and an expectation to be represented in their parliament.

But your spinning is taken verbatim from the Sinn Fein primer for dealing with awkward questions.

The fact that those constituents who didn't vote for them are thereby disenfranchised matters not one whit to the vermin who blather on about parity of esteem for both traditions.

Vermin? I see. Your points will be ignored.

Galwayguy35

Nice to see Colum Eastwood getting a seat, he seems like a decent guy.

Strabanimal

Great to see Naomi Long retweeting that only 8 seats were unionist. For those copers trying to act like alliance are unionists

An Ciarraioch

Strabanimal wrote: »

Great to see Naomi Long retweeting that only 8 seats were unionist. For those copers trying to act like alliance are unionists

Of course, many of the unionists/loyalists see them as part of a "pan-nationalist front", so swings and roundabouts!

FrancieBrady

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Of course, many of the unionists/loyalists see them as part of a "pan-nationalist front", so swings and roundabouts!

The thing that annoys me about the Alliance is that they admirably try to plough the middle ground blithely ignoring the fact that to all intents and purposes the issues are green or orange in the real world of NI.

The question I would ask therefore is what do they do if a UI poll does come as it inevitably will...because that green v orange thing is not settled in the real world.

What position could they take..stand back and avow they will go with the majority? Is that the logical conclusion of their position?

An Ciarraioch

To be fair, they did attend the various all-island forums on Brexit, so presumably they would weigh up the economic arguments first.

darem93

Yeah I could be imaging things, but I’m pretty sure Naomi said during a debate back in 2017 that they would take a position in a border poll. They’d pick the side which they thought was the most economically secure and would offer the best future for the North at that particular time.

FrancieBrady

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

To be fair, they did attend the various all-island forums on Brexit, so presumably they would weigh up the economic arguments first.

Seriously, I like the Alliance, they are earnest people. I just wonder what the point is. Like a lot of people here, they seem to think fixing things will happen if you just ignore them. Hence my question about when they can't ignore things anymore...a yes or no UI referendum.

SharpshooterTom

I voted Alliance in East Belfast.

But they are liberal unionist party. They do far better in unionist areas than they do in nationalist areas (where they are mostly non existant) for a reason.

That said, they're pro Irish, support the Irish language act embracing Irish identity in general. A UI would be a hell of a lot tougher if the unionist population put them forward as their main defacto unionist party, rather than the bigoted DUP who antagonise catholics, gays and minorities and put everyone else off from wanting Northern Ireland to stay in the UK.

ThomasFlynn

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I voted Alliance in East Belfast.

But they are liberal unionist party. They do far better in unionist areas than they do in nationalist areas (where they are mostly non existant) for a reason.

That said, they're pro Irish, support the Irish language act embracing Irish identity in general. A UI would be a hell of a lot tougher if the unionist population put them forward as their main defacto unionist party, rather than the bigoted DUP who antagonise catholics, gays and minorities and put everyone else off from wanting Northern Ireland to stay in the UK.

They are not knee-jerk anti Irish and open to the possibility of a UI if they think it makes sense. Even after decades of peace NI is stagnating and I think these are the first unionists that realise there will eventually be a UI that will benefit them and their children. It's key that they explicitly don't align with either nationalist or unionist. Apart from liberal I'd also include the word affluent or at least relatively so.

I do also think there's a good portion of liberal nationalists voting alliance, especially tactically in unionist strongholds where a SF/SDLP vote would be wasted. They are also increasing West of the Bahnn.

They have come very far in the last decade.

FrancieBrady

I get what they say about a UI. But given that we may have several UI referendums they are a party who will have to 'sniff the wind' before taking a position and take the one that will do them the least damage or decide to abstain.

That's the anomaly for me with them. The reality is that the constitutional issue will have to be decided and like it or not, in the real world, that will be about green or orange.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I get what they say about a UI. But given that we may have several UI referendums they are a party who will have to 'sniff the wind' before taking a position and take the one that will do them the least damage or decide to abstain.

That's the anomaly for me with them. The reality is that the constitutional issue will have to be decided and like it or not, in the real world, that will be about green or orange.

I don't agree, assuming (and any other way would be madness) there would be a long (2 year?) Discussion about what a UI would actually entail I do believe they will have time to make up their mind. In fact, I think they will be crucial king makers.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't agree, assuming (and any other way would be madness) there would be a long (2 year?) Discussion about what a UI would actually entail I do believe they will have time to make up their mind. In fact, I think they will be crucial king makers.

I get that too and we will have honest undecided's. I'm not sure that is a good thing in a political party though. Sooner or later you will do damage if you try to sit on fences for too long.
It won't be lost on anyone watching what happened Labour when they tried too hard to be all things to all men and women.

circadian

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I get what they say about a UI. But given that we may have several UI referendums they are a party who will have to 'sniff the wind' before taking a position and take the one that will do them the least damage or decide to abstain.

That's the anomaly for me with them. The reality is that the constitutional issue will have to be decided and like it or not, in the real world, that will be about green or orange.

Not necessarily. Brexit showed us a referendum that would fundamentally change the fabric of a country, and it was a decision made with no pragmatism.

A united Ireland is something I'd love to see but it needs to be approached with a pragmatic view, not just through green and orange lenses.

FrancieBrady

circadian wrote: »

Not necessarily. Brexit showed us a referendum that would fundamentally change the fabric of a country, and it was a decision made with no pragmatism.

A united Ireland is something I'd love to see but it needs to be approached with a pragmatic view, not just through green and orange lenses.

Well I live in the real world and I think that despite all the high moral ground 'advice' about what it 'should' be. On the ground among those that will be doing the convincing or who need convincing it will inevitably be about Green and Orange.
I don't see anything wrong about that btw as long as the debate does not stray into areas of force or oppression.

The Alliance try to nobly pretend that that issue is not still raging in NI. As did the SDLP to a large extent until John Hume met it head on and tried to address it and find some common ground and equality.