Northern Ireland Westminster General Election

blanch152

L1011 wrote: »

This is all reliant on the idea that sitting by and doing nothing is somehow more effective.

Which it isn't.

SF lost Foyle quite extensively on the basis that the constituents wanted someone to actually go to Westminster. That needs to be accepted.

It is even worse than that, it is sitting by and doing nothing because something something 100 years ago.

Sinn Fein's abstentionist policy is based somehow on rejecting the legitimacy of the union. However, the democratic basis for the union was enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement which Sinn Fein claim to support.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

However, the democratic basis for the union was enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement which Sinn Fein claim to support.

Where?

The aspiration to a UI is 'enshrined' in the GFA. If you want a UI you reject the current arrangement.

You don't agree with abortion just because you accept the majority decision to allow abortion.

charlie14

L1011 wrote: »

This is all reliant on the idea that sitting by and doing nothing is somehow more effective.

Which it isn't.

SF lost Foyle quite extensively on the basis that the constituents wanted someone to actually go to Westminster. That needs to be accepted.

When in Irish history has sitting in Westminster actually achieved anything ?

Representation didn`t mean a think to the British parliament before the War of Independence nor did it to Thatcher or any Tory prime minister. Johnston is now carrying on that tradition without any regard after the SDLP seat win, in above all constituencies Foyle, with this proposal.

If, as some here seem to believe, nationalists taking up two seats in Westminster will create some kind of sea change in Tory party policy towards Ireland then with Johnston`s latest proposal I`m afraid they are sadly mistaken.
Their official name is not, nor have ever been as regards Ireland, the Conservative and Unionist Party for no reason.


On face value the Foyle seat could be looked on in that way but it is a bit of an outlier in SF v SDLP so there may be many other reasons for that result, candidate appeal being one, so really can only be judged over time and subsequent elections.

An Ciarraioch

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where?

The aspiration to a UI is 'enshrined' in the GFA. If you want a UI you reject the current arrangement.

You don't agree with abortion just because you accept the majority decision to allow abortion.

And moreover, as the right to call a referendum is solely in the hands of the NI Secretary of State, parties are entitled to seek clarification on what criteria would activate one.

4068ac1elhodqr

Think it looks like Scotland are about to do more than anyone else ever before (and via peaceful means) to break-up the uk.

Interesting times, as the uk enjoys 58% in-work poverty levels, and has just voted in more the same after a decade of austerity.
https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/business/growth-of-in-work-poverty-is-statistic-of-the-year/

Junkyard Tom

Oakley Short Lung wrote: »

Think it looks like Scotland are about to do more than anyone else ever before (and via peaceful means) to break-up the uk.

Your attempt at equivalence is way off.

If about a quarter of Scotland with a large number of Zoroastrians decided 'nah, we're not allowing Scotland to break away' armed themselves, and threatened to go on a mass-murder and ethnic cleansing spree if London didn't create their own little sectarian enclave, with their own sectarian junta, with sectarian paramilitary police, and all.

That that would be equivalent.

Conservatives taking revenge on the DUP, explicitly blaming them for Stormont not getting back up and running. Strange times indeed.

With fellow unionists like these who needs enemies.

If the DUP head into an election that is blamed on them there could be a fracture of the unionist vote and transfers to UUP and Alliance.

Will be interesting for Assembly make up and further erosion of Unionist identity.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Conservatives taking revenge on the DUP.

Same reaction from Westminster that they provoked at the AIA. But potentially worse as Johnson's government is now all powerful.
The DUP's eternal mistake - thinking that Britain sees them as anything other than Irish and therefore expendable.

Reaping what they sowed.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Stay on topic please. Any general discussion of the trouble and sniping isn't for this thread.

FrancieBrady

Julian Smith reporting a 'positive' meeting with the DUP this morning although there was nothing positive from Gregory Campbell in his interview on SOR.

Mr.Nice Guy

Wonder what DUP voters make of this:

https://twitter.com/BBCJayneMcC/status/1208039897635966977

It's a 'betrayal act', yet one that deserves the joyous sound of bell-ringing apparently.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Wonder what DUP voters make of this:

https://twitter.com/BBCJayneMcC/status/1208039897635966977

It's a 'betrayal act', yet one that deserves the joyous sound of bell-ringing apparently.

They do love their pomp and ceremony. Bread and circus for the political classes.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

They do love their pomp and ceremony. Bread and circus for the political classes.

They ring bells at funerals too.

cameramonkey

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They ring bells at funerals too.

John Donne says it best. Like it was written for the DUP.

No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent,
a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as any manner of thy friends or of thine own were;
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

NIMAN

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF got trounced in Foyle because of candidate choice and the ongoing Stormont mess IMO.

I think it certainly played into it, but SF only won the seat initially by 169 votes and on the back of Martin McGuinness' death, which gave them a massive boost.

We all know Foyle was always SDLP, and I think its simply returned to its natural state. Of course no Stormont for 3 years and Elisha McCallion being seen as clean useless didn't help.

SF will struggle to get it back again.

FrancieBrady

NIMAN wrote: »

I think it certainly played into it, but SF only won the seat initially by 169 votes and on the back of Martin McGuinness' death, which gave them a massive boost.

We all know Foyle was always SDLP, and I think its simply returned to its natural state. Of course no Stormont for 3 years and Elisha McCallion being seen as clean useless didn't help.

SF will struggle to get it back again.

I'd agree, the major shock was the SDLP losing it in the first place.

Junkyard Tom

Julian Smith's singling out of one party for holding up the reconvening of Stormont followed by a performative signing-off of the equal marriage act was a very explicit poke in both eyes of the DUP.



Julian Smith was appointed chief whip by T-May in 2017 and would have witnessed the DUP's humiliation of his boss.

I can't help but think there are numerous Tories waiting in the long grass for any opportunity to stick it to the DUP.