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Judgement day for Maria Bailey.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,659 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Quality modern journalism as usual on the Indo piece. What are they teaching at the journo degrees these days?

    Ciara O'Loughlin didn't even have the sense to ask "what are your serious injuries that are still persisting after a year?".

    Did an interview even take place I wonder, or was it a press release sent to the Indo by her PR team?

    I notice on my touch version of the Indo site it is gone, you have to go into Irish News to actually find it away down at the bottom .


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    Had it been Jack Stephens or Alan Shatter, he'd get the same treatment.

    Hell, Shatter did get the same treatment in 2014 after all the various scandals centred around himself and Martin Callinan came out. He was widely memed and pilloried all over the Irish corners of the internet, and rightly so. Stephen Donnelly is currently having the absolute piss ripped out of him for a wide variety of legitimate reasons. In no way has this ever been a gender based thing - Irish humour is such that the more one pushes back against being held accountable for one's own f*ck up, the more mockery and hilarity it will generate.

    That is not a bad thing. Politicians who can't hack it should perhaps try to behave in a manner which is non-ludicrous enough that it doesn't invite this kind of reaction - not every controversy is memable, like some controversies are just controversial and just piss people off. IMO, the difference between those which become memes and those which don't is entirely down to the reaction of the perpetrators - if they act the absolute bollix in the immediate aftermath of the controversy, that's when the meme machine gets fired up.

    Maria Bailey wouldn't have become a meme on the back of swinggate had she not gone to ridiculous lengths trying to defend the indefensible and resorted to the moronic and utterly flawed adage of attack being the best form of defence.

    Alan Shatter wouldn't have become a meme on the back of the Garda scandals if Spring 2014 hadn't seen literally one controversy after another within a matter of weeks (Maurice McCabe, GSOC surveillance, secret recordings of calls to and from Garda stations, Oliver Connolly, etc) and if he hadn't reacted, similarly to Bailey, by painting himself as the victim of unfair witch hunting.

    Fidelma Healy Eames wouldn't have become a meme were it not for her repeated remarks suggesting that her world view hasn't evolved from the 1950s and that she genuinely believes the far-right interpretation of Christianity which suggests that sexuality is a fundamentally sinful thing.

    Phil Hogan wouldn't have become a meme over Golfgate - there were a whole pile of individuals present at that dinner, not just him - if he hadn't engaged in an absolute litany of offences in the space of one 48 hour weekend immediately afterwards.

    Stephen Donnelly wouldn't currently be the target of ridicule were it not for the frankly surrealistic clusterf*ck that has been his department's messaging on COVID-19, I would say starting specifically from the moment last year in which they published the original "living with COVID" plan and then invented a bizarre "stage and a half" which diverged from the plan within, IIRC, a couple of hours or a day of publishing it.

    Point I'm making is that this is not about gender, it's not about party, and it's not about cyber bullying or whatever these politicians want to paint it as. It's about sustained incidents which aren't just controversial but happen in such a way that there's a definitive angle of disbelief or ironic humour to them.

    The key word here is sustained. I've been making memes since before they were cool, way back in the days of /b/ and other formerly obscure corners of the internet which you only knew about if you were a proper nerd :D and the truth is that memes come and go like the weather on an Irish Spring day - if a week is a long time in politics, an hour is a century in the world of viral content. The only way an incident survives long enough to generate repeated waves of internet memes is if the incident is not merely a single occurrence, but an ongoing saga of some kind.

    All of the examples I cited above involved not just incidents with an air of ludicrosity or irony to them, but crucially, incidents in which those involved continued to dig themselves deeper and deeper into a hole instead of having the plain common sense to STFU once they've already argued themselves into a corner surrounded by illogical contradictions or utterly far fetched excuses.

    Nobody, male or female, becomes a meme just by f*cking up. In order to become a meme, you have to f*ck up - and then double down. The latter is what got all of these people into the situations they ended up in, and frankly at this stage, meme culture has been around long enough that there is literally no excuse whatsoever for politicians still not understanding the importance of knowing when to back down and go away quietly.




  • ^^^^^

    When you put it like that we really have some brass necked people in political circles.

    I have always viewed someone who is able to show contrition and apologise when at fault as a being a strong character.

    This doesn't seem to exist within the cohort above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    ^^^^^

    When you put it like that we really have some brass necked people in political circles.

    I have always viewed someone who is able to show contrition and apologise when at fault as a being a strong character.

    This doesn't seem to exist within the cohort above.

    A hundred million percent, this. The issue in Irish politics isn't either incompetence or corruption in my view, but a persistent culture of impunity and defensive doubling down. Honestly the examples I cited are just those which occurred off the top of my head during a quick brainstorm while typing up the post, I'd extremely confidently suggest that these are a tiny proportion of those which have happened in just the last decade alone. In prior times, these would have been pilloried by the likes of Scrap Saturday, Gift Grub etc, the advent of social media has merely decentralised the creation of political satire with (in my view) wonderfully beautiful and hilarious results.

    Point being, the internet literally moves on from one subject to another within a timeframe measures in hours if not minutes. In order to become a meme on the scale of any of the individuals I've mentioned in the previous post, you have to really, really, really become "a gift which keeps on giving". One single high profile instance of stupidity doesn't cut it anymore, you're lucky if it nets you a literal fifteen minutes of infamy. Days or weeks of persistent meme-making? You literally have to be continuously screwing up on an absolutely constant basis, or the internet just doesn't care enough to sustain that kind of creativity around it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Bailey started to mark out the hole for herself when her deposition stated that there should have been someone there to instruct people on how to use the swing and that there was no signage there. That was frankly ludicrous. She then kept digging with her consistent denials and lies, and she hit rock bottom once she did the interview on Sean O'Rourke against all advice.

    Josepha Madigan had the brains to keep her mouth shut and her head down on the matter until it blew over. She was helped by the Bailey's own actions. She still has her job.

    If Bailey had shown some humility; if she had apologised and kept her mouth firmly shut, kept her head down and done her job, then she'd still be in her 'TD-for-life' job. Judging on the recent interview in the Indo she has learned absolutely nothing and we should be thankful that she's well away from the corridors of power.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,848 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Jesus I just listened to her SoR interview again. There's nothing any of us could possibly say here that does more damage to her character than her own interview does.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    :pac::pac::pac:

    I've no sympathy for Bailey, and from what I've read about her father she didn't lick it off a stone, but there is a certain level of vitriol reserved for those who fit a certain Irish societal bracket. It can be seen in the reaction to the two solicitors in Cork who ripped off the banks.

    Like Bailey, the lady in Cork was relatively young, attractive, educated, middle class, already well off, and a FG supporter.

    She got absolutely roasted on social media, mostly for her FG council run but also over her dishonesty, plus an assertion she took advantage of the homeless by ripping their PPS numbers.

    I guarantee you if Lyndsey whatshername had not been of this background, but rather was a Tesco check out girl from Finglas who had canvassed for SF in the past, her ingenious scheme to rip off the bastard banks would have her up as a national hero. Martin Cahill and Gerry Hutch remain folk heroes to large swathes of the population.

    The difference is Bailey is a disgraced former politician whereas Clarke, (if you bothered to learn the woman's name) is a struck off disgraced solicitor imprisoned for buying PPS numbers off homeless people to commit fraud. No assertion, proven in court. But yes, both are FG'ers.
    When all the FG'ers were claiming the housing/homeless crises was mostly a scam I didn't realise it was their own doing it.
    Funny how you claim sexism but aren't arsed learning the names of these women.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    :pac::pac::pac:

    I've no sympathy for Bailey, and from what I've read about her father she didn't lick it off a stone, but there is a certain level of vitriol reserved for those who fit a certain Irish societal bracket. It can be seen in the reaction to the two solicitors in Cork who ripped off the banks.

    Like Bailey, the lady in Cork was relatively young, attractive, educated, middle class, already well off, and a FG supporter.

    She got absolutely roasted on social media, mostly for her FG council run but also over her dishonesty, plus an assertion she took advantage of the homeless by ripping their PPS numbers.

    I guarantee you if Lyndsey whatshername had not been of this background, but rather was a Tesco check out girl from Finglas who had canvassed for SF in the past, her ingenious scheme to rip off the bastard banks would have her up as a national hero. Martin Cahill and Gerry Hutch remain folk heroes to large swathes of the population.

    It was a little bit more than an assertion. She plead guilty and was sentenced to 2 years prison yesterday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Kite flying exercise, give an interview Maria, see if there's enough water under the bridge by the taxpayers, and we will consider maybe putting you back into the limelight.


    **Carroll MacNeill checks social media this morning**


    I don't think so Leo!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Kite flying exercise, give an interview Maria, see if there's enough water under the bridge by the taxpayers, and we will consider maybe putting you back into the limelight.


    **Carroll MacNeill checks social media this morning**


    I don't think so Leo!

    To pull off such a comeback they'd need show she was repentant and suffered unfairly.
    FG aren't that clever. Bailey isn't that innocent.
    I'd say she was promised a comeback. For such a car wreck of an interviewee, she kept quite about Josepha and didn't bad mouth Leo.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    To pull off such a comeback they'd need show she was repentant and suffered unfairly.
    FG aren't that clever. Bailey isn't that innocent.
    I'd say she was promised a comeback. For such a car wreck of an interviewee, she kept quite about Josepha and didn't bad mouth Leo.

    "Entitlement culture" - It's not always = Jacinta who wants a free gaff close to mammy with room for a trampoline ya know.

    And she needed plasters from the reception!!!!!!


    Plasters I tell ya!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    McMurphy wrote: »
    "Entitlement culture" - It's not always = Jacinta who wants a free gaff close to mammy with room for a trampoline ya know.

    And she needed plasters from the reception!!!!!!


    Plasters I tell ya!

    Was often plastered myself, to be honest :):):)


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Sean


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Kite flying exercise, give an interview Maria, see if there's enough water under the bridge by the taxpayers, and we will consider maybe putting you back into the limelight.


    **Carroll MacNeill checks social media this morning**


    I don't think so Leo!

    Personally, I can't see that changing, ever. People getting roasted over insurance costs, over and over again, and then she tries this fraudulent scam?? Everytime her name is mentioned, it will bring it all back again. Until her dying day, she will be associated with "Swing Gate".


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Penn wrote: »
    Jesus I just listened to her SoR interview again. There's nothing any of us could possibly say here that does more damage to her character than her own interview does.
    For old times sake :)
    https://youtu.be/4uGBRN5bUkU


  • Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭rosser44


    In my eyes she's a scam artist and her attempt to use Caroline Flack to rehabilitate her image is absolutely disgusting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I was going to jokingly claim misogyny, but I just seen that Paddy beat me to it. Once again, right on types overlook all context, all substance, just to reduce people to their gender. Pathetic, but predictable.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    rosser44 wrote: »
    In my eyes she's a scam artist and her attempt to use Caroline Flack to rehabilitate her image is absolutely disgusting.
    Jesus, she's a despicable vile yoke
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/maria-bailey-opens-up-about-abuse-she-received-after-swing-gate-and-said-she-is-still-seriously-injured-from-the-fall-40120910.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭ForestFire



    Is "people telling me to jump off a cliff." from the article the high end of this abuse she received? They are not even saying they would do anything to her...just they don't want her around them, as such..saying ahh would you ever go away and jump of a cliff or something...

    Is that not like a saying, similar to "take a run and jump...."

    Or If I tell someone to "Get lost"....Am I implying they should put themselves in harms way, and need emergency services to rescue them from peril to survive!! Can I be charged with abuse, by telling someone to "get lost"?


    Maybe there was more, but that is all I am seeing from the article....nothing like what recent footballers have endured with real threats to them and their families...


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Maria Bailey In my case, it’s true, that the truth is taken out of your hands and into entertainment. Like there were Halloween costumes, there were pantomimes.

    I'm presuming she is referring to this.

    I thought it was genius really, much better than lads putting on a MAGA hat and some orange fake tan

    https://twitter.com/BrienAyrton/status/1190009177281839104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1190017528589893642%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Fp%3D111653736


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    rosser44 wrote: »
    In my eyes she's a scam artist and her attempt to use Caroline Flack to rehabilitate her image is absolutely disgusting.

    A Fine Gael party tactic. Despicable.
    I know decent FG'ers. This'll make them think twice.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Mod:

    Can we move on please now? Thread cleaned up, stop getting reeled in by obvious trolling folks


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    ForestFire wrote: »
    Is "people telling me to jump off a cliff." from the article the high end of this abuse she received? They are not even saying they would do anything to her...just they don't want her around them, as such..saying ahh would you ever go away and jump of a cliff or something...

    Is that not like a saying, similar to "take a run and jump...."

    Be careful... if she actually jumps off a cliff and survives, she will be claiming against a county council for not having a supervisor present to watch over said cliff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    jmreire wrote: »
    Personally, I can't see that changing, ever. People getting roasted over insurance costs, over and over again, and then she tries this fraudulent scam?? Everytime her name is mentioned, it will bring it all back again. Until her dying day, she will be associated with "Swing Gate".

    Alan Farrell gets off lightly.

    https://twitter.com/DrHaroldPARODY/status/1363924551470616582?s=19


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    I see Lisa Chambers has waded in to support Maria Bailey.

    A stupid move in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I see Lisa Chambers has waded in to support Maria Bailey.

    A stupid move in my opinion.

    Are you sure it's her, she could be speaking for somebody else. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,105 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    McMurphy wrote: »
    He definitely got off very lightly...the fact he didn't give a car crash interview probably helped him though


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    gmisk wrote: »
    He definitely got off very lightly...the fact he didn't give a car crash interview probably helped him though

    Not sure if deliberate......:pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    gmisk wrote: »
    He definitely got off very lightly...the fact he didn't give a car crash interview probably helped him though

    Pun intended? :)

    This thread really is all swings and roundabouts....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Pintman Paddy Losty


    I see Lisa Chambers has waded in to support Maria Bailey.

    A stupid move in my opinion.


    Lisa is another female politician that has received torrents of abuse from online e-gurriers, mostly related to her gender and the fact that she was pregnant. So it's not surprising that she has sympathy with Maria.


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