Sending appeal to An Bord Pleanala

realdanbreen

Will be sending an appeal against a refusal for a bungalow build to ABP.
Apart from the necessary stuff, fee, copy of refusal etc is there anything else I should send to help my case?

Penn

Justification for why you think the Local Authority was wrong, which depends on the reasons why they refused your application. Citing rural design guidelines, development plan, precedent in the area etc, anything that will help strengthen your case. If you have an architect/other professional who did the planning application for you, they should be able to pull a report together for you to put your best case forward.

It very much depends on the reason for refusal though. In some cases, your best bet is actually to submit a new planning application addressing the issues why the first was refused.

Do you have an architect/engineer/surveyor or other planning consultant? What was their recommendation?

realdanbreen

Penn wrote: »

Justification for why you think the Local Authority was wrong, which depends on the reasons why they refused your application. Citing rural design guidelines, development plan, precedent in the area etc, anything that will help strengthen your case. If you have an architect/other professional who did the planning application for you, they should be able to pull a report together for you to put your best case forward.

It very much depends on the reason for refusal though. In some cases, your best bet is actually to submit a new planning application addressing the issues why the first was refused.

Do you have an architect/engineer/surveyor or other planning consultant? What was their recommendation?

Bit of a long story but I had 2 applications. First one I withdrew because it was about to be refused on the basis of the road being sub standard. I had an engineer who was a complete waste of money, made no contact with the council and apart from the basics, preparing drawings etc was a total knob. The second application I processed myself but have been told it is going to be refused on the same basis. Council will not tell me why the road is sub standard, where it is SS, are there plans to upgrade the road. The road is not SS in the vicinity of the site and for all I know it could be a mile away where it is SS. While there were no objections I have been told that a developer with land in the area may have made informal contact with the council. Do I mention any of that in my covering letter?

Penn

realdanbreen wrote: »

Bit of a long story but I had 2 applications. First one I withdrew because it was about to be refused on the basis of the road being sub standard. I had an engineer who was a complete waste of money, made no contact with the council and apart from the basics, preparing drawings etc was a total knob. The second application I processed myself but have been told it is going to be refused on the same basis. Council will not tell me why the road is sub standard, where it is SS, are there plans to upgrade the road. The road is not SS in the vicinity of the site and for all I know it could be a mile away where it is SS. While there were no objections I have been told that a developer with land in the area may have made informal contact with the council. Do I mention any of that in my covering letter?

Definitely don't mention the developer may have spoken informally with the council. You have no proof of it. With An Bord Pleanala, you need to be as factual as possible. ABP won't entertain any notions of hearsay and it'll only make your own argument look weak.

You need a proper engineer who can look at and assess the existing road and formulate a strong response on your behalf. Without knowing why the Council view the road as being sub-standard (which they should give some explanation of in the Manager's Order on the planning file once the Notification of Decision to Refuse Permission has been sent), it's hard to say if you'll have any luck at all. An Bord Pleanala will review the entire application though, so they may come to a different decision on the road, but you'd need a competent professional to ascertain what are the issues the Council have with the road (eg. is it the condition of the road itself, is it a laneway more so than a road, is it your sightlines that aren't suitable for the road etc) and get their opinion on it.

sydthebeat

is there any reason the application did not include plans to upgrade the sub standard aspect of the road?

realdanbreen

sydthebeat wrote: »

is there any reason the application did not include plans to upgrade the sub standard aspect of the road?

I met with the council at a pre planning meeting.They would not say what was sub standard about the road, where it was sub standard or if they had plans to upgrade the road.

Calahonda52

realdanbreen wrote: »

Bit of a long story but I had 2 applications. First one I withdrew because it was about to be refused on the basis of the road being sub standard.
.
I had an engineer who was a complete waste of money, made no contact with the council and apart from the basics, preparing drawings etc was a total knob.
.
The second application I processed myself but have been told it is going to be refused on the same basis. Council will not tell me why the road is sub standard, where it is SS, are there plans to upgrade the road. The road is not SS in the vicinity of the site and for all I know it could be a mile away where it is SS. While there were no objections I have been told that a developer with land in the area may have made informal contact with the council. Do I mention any of that in my covering letter?

The above is just just your opinion.

Lacing your thread with this sort of stuff on a forum which has quite a number of professionals on board who give freely of their time does not create the right ambience.

realdanbreen

Calahonda52 wrote: »

The above is just just your opinion.

Lacing your thread with this sort of stuff on a forum which has quite a number of professionals on board who give freely of their time does not create the right ambience.

This Engineer did not give freely of his time nor would I expect him to do so. he was well paid in advance. The fact that he did not make any contact with the council, did not even know if a roads report had been carried out, offered no suggestions , basicly took the money and left it at that might not create the type of ambience that you would like but that's what happened.

Penn

Which pre-planning did the Council speak about the roads; the first one (where your engineer was engaged) or before the second one you put in yourself?

If the first one, yes your engineer should have included something to answer the Council's concerns about the road. However if the pre-planning only happened before the second application, the engineer might have had no idea the council had any concerns about the road when he did the original application, and once the application goes in, there is no engagement with the Council. They won't speak to the applicant or agent while the application is being decided. There is no possibility of engagement until the notification of decision comes through, and you withdrew it before that happened.

woohoo!!!

Is the road substandard, what does it need to make good, is it some light patching, is it surface dressing or is it strengthening and surface dressing that's needed? The Council should have surveyed it relatively recently and rated it on a scale of 1-10.

What has been granted and built on the road recently?

When is the last time the Council did works on the road, are they likely to do so in the near future?

sydthebeat

realdanbreen wrote: »

I met with the council at a pre planning meeting.They would not say what was sub standard about the road, where it was sub standard or if they had plans to upgrade the road.

i don't understand.

you withdrew the first application because, im assuming from what you posted, you heard it as going to be refused on the basis of a sub standard access road??

who told you want the reason was....
why couldnt that person tell you what the issue with the road was, or at least convey to you who said it was going to be refused.

yet are you saying you submitted the second application without finding out what these issues were nor offered anything in the application to overcome the issue which lead to the first application being withdrawn?

is the access road public or private?

gourcuff

imo you should get a chartered planner to appeal to ABP. They deal with planning policy arguments daily and have an in depth knowledge of the development plan and the planning arguments that appeal to ABP.