How do people live off low wages?

DellyBelly

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Wherever they can.
There are plenty of cities more overcrowded than Dublin.
So whether than means people commuting from affordable areas to cities, or people living in smaller and smaller accommodation as they get priced out.

It's a sad state of affairs, but nothing new.



Depends on the industry and the job.
Get into some MNC, get a nice niche role and you could be set for life.

I started on 24k after college.
Year 2 I was on 32k
Year 4 48k
Year 6 now and I'm up in the 60s.

Most of my colleagues are on something similar. Purely speaking about tech jobs, if you're good and you have a passion the sky's the limit.

That's not a bad wage you are on but not great for Dublin. You would hope you should be higher than 60k after 6 years? I reckon to have a decent life in Dublin you need to earning north of 85k even closer to 100k

Sunny Disposition

I think young people need to be wary of industries that are overpaid, the same is actually true of certain manufacturing companies who pay more money that you'd expect.
IT, construction, tourism, have all had their moments when they were paying very well, but these were bubbles that burst again.
If you have a passion for something by all means go for it, but don't do so just because it's in the middle of an upswing. Those that remember the IT collapse in 01 or the building bust a few years later would understand this.

topper75

jester77 wrote: »

Sorry, but you need to work on your indentation

Also he broke standards by not giving it a name.

Any name you like, so long as it gives no ****ing indication whatsoever about what it actually does.

Greyfox

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't mean to offend people, but I'm wondering how people live off low wages (20/30K), buying houses, raising families. It seems impossible to me.

You can either be very smart with your money, avoid buying things you don't need and try to study to get a better job or you can be like me and accept that you'll never own a house or have kids

Montage of Feck

In my world talk of earning 80k a few years out of college is crazy talk. I most have made some really ****y life choices.

Better Than Christ

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't mean to offend people, but I'm wondering how people live off low wages (20/30K), buying houses, raising families. It seems impossible to me.

I'm 23, I make 32K as a software engineer, but I live with my parents so I can save a good chunk of money every month. I realize I'm lucky and I'll probably be on 50-70K in 2/3 years, but for people who won't get great raises, how do you live (especially in Dublin)

I'm in my late thirties and on around €35,000. Unless I change jobs, I'm unlikely to be earning much more than that in five years time. I have no plans to raise a family and I would ideally prefer not to have to buy a house either. I rent alone and can afford to live reasonably comfortably, but I've always had a fairly basic, low-cost lifestyle. My idea of 'living comfortably' might be someone else's idea of abject austerity. The only issue I have is that I'm not saving enough money. That's the one thing that's pushing me towards the idea of either trying to get promoted in my current job or seeking a new career altogether.

uck51js9zml2yt

Did a post grad in web development. Haven't worked in IT in years.

GooglePlus

I always thought high level IT jobs bring in 100k+

50k isn't great for all the work that's involved and the constant need to evolve with technology.

What's earning big out there at the minute?

vriesmays

Poeple in factories can earn €80k, night shifts overtime, weekend work.

Padre_Pio

DellyBelly wrote: »

That's not a bad wage you are on but not great for Dublin. You would hope you should be higher than 60k after 6 years? I reckon to have a decent life in Dublin you need to earning north of 85k even closer to 100k

I'm not in Dublin, and personally I'm very happy with where I am and my earning potential. I would hope I'm on that sort of money within the next 4 years.

I doubt there's many in their late 20's pulling in near 85-100k and clocking out at 5pm every day. Compared to my friends who are working outside of tech and finance I'm way head in earning potential.

vriesmays wrote: »

Poeple in factories can earn €80k, night shifts overtime, weekend work.

I've heard that more than I've seen it. You'd have to be in pharma or medical and you'd have the mentality of working every shift you can get, 50-70 hours a week, with overtime and shift allowance. I would say that most factory operators are on half that.

nthclare

BDI wrote: »

Everybody in the country is studying computer stuff. In five years the qualifications will be as common as an Eastern European building site worker.

If computers havnt already started making their own computer stuff it’ll be a 40 grand a year job at best.

I know taxi men studying programming degrees part time. Love it they do.

Reminds me of the time an ECDL was as good as a 4 year course in computer applications.

It's the same now my 18 year old has no qualifications in Art or Graphic design and his friends get him to edit photos for their Instagram profile pics and do funny gifs, exchanging head's from, editing videos etc

A dog with a mallet up his arse can do a lot these days on computers.

Then you've people who just come out of rehab doing sociology courses and looking after vunrable people....

Unqualified landscapers making balls of planting schemes and charging top dollar's

lainey_d_123

BDI wrote: »

Everybody in the country is studying computer stuff. In five years the qualifications will be as common as an Eastern European building site worker.

If computers havnt already started making their own computer stuff it’ll be a 40 grand a year job at best.

I know taxi men studying programming degrees part time. Love it they do.

That's what I was told back in the 90s, when I became interested in programming.

'Sure everyone is doing it now, skills will be worthless, study something else'.

20 years later after years of living in poverty and not making use of the degree I was advised to do, I'm finally a software developer and finally making a liveable wage.

Pro life tip - don't take advice from teachers who have zero life experience and zero knowledge of industry or the world outside the four walls of a school.

Padre_Pio

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Pro life tip - don't take advice from teachers who have zero life experience and zero knowledge of industry or the world outside the four walls of a school.

The people giving the most career advice probably haven't looked for a job in decades, have no clue what the current job market is like, and definitely have no clue what it will be like in 5 years when you graduate.

BDI

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

That's what I was told back in the 90s, when I became interested in programming.

'Sure everyone is doing it now, skills will be worthless, study something else'.

20 years later after years of living in poverty and not making use of the degree I was advised to do, I'm finally a software developer and finally making a liveable wage.

Pro life tip - don't take advice from teachers who have zero life experience and zero knowledge of industry or the world outside the four walls of a school.

It took you 20 years to earn a liveable wage from it and you are giving me advice?
In the 90s programmers were getting way more than they get now adjusting for inflation, in the 2030s they will be getting way less than they do now.

With a small bit of overtime I earn what lads are pretending to earn here. I could do a few nixers each week if I really wanted to boost my earning. Why are you giving me a pro life tip? If you had of got any public sector job 20 years ago you would probably be on what people pretend to earn here.

lainey_d_123

BDI wrote: »

It took you 20 years to earn a liveable wage from it and you are giving me advice?
In the 90s programmers were getting way more than they get now adjusting for inflation, in the 2030s they will be getting way less than they do now.

With a small bit of overtime I earn what lads are pretending to earn here. I could do a few nixers each week if I really wanted to boost my earning. Why are you giving me a pro life tip? If you had of got any public sector job 20 years ago you would probably be on what people pretend to earn here.

Reading comprehension isn't your forte, is it?

It took 20 years because I gave it up based on that crap advice and studied something totally different. I didn't pick it up again until I was well into my thirties. Once I was good enough to work in it, I was on double my previous salary in well under a year and some of my more experienced colleagues are on six figures. As I would be if I hadn't been fed the rubbish you're spouting here by teachers and 'career advisors'. I would have had a very comfortable life over the past decade if I'd gone into programming sooner.

But sure, whatever you want to tell yourself.

lainey_d_123

Padre_Pio wrote: »

The people giving the most career advice probably haven't looked for a job in decades, have no clue what the current job market is like, and definitely have no clue what it will be like in 5 years when you graduate.

Exactly. They are in fact some of the worst people to be giving out career advice, and yet they do it and act like they know it all.

Fionn1952

Christ, software development grads are the worst. At this point, I just don't have any dealings at all with any with under five years experience, it isn't worth the overblown ego that seems to always take a few years to subside.

If I had a euro for every software dev grad who was convinced they'd be on a hundred grand within five years, and had to give twenty back to every one who actually was, I'd be making a fortune!

Pac1Man

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Christ, software development grads are the worst.

That's what happens when nerds finally get some leverage. Insufferable.

Twister2

Shoplifting - amazing how much you save on your food bills

Drill a big hole into your neighbours house-save a packet on heating costs

Ubbquittious

DellyBelly wrote: »

That's not a bad wage you are on but not great for Dublin. You would hope you should be higher than 60k after 6 years? I reckon to have a decent life in Dublin you need to earning north of 85k even closer to 100k

I think so. I would be slow to move to Dublin even for that kind of money. Not even getting 40k now but my expenses are very low only 200 a month rent and I get to live in a place where the fellas on big money come for a weekend to get away from it all (but not too often because it's too inaccessible for them).

Pmacv1

The Elder wrote: »

Neet here. Although I'm provided with a very generous allowance from the state, courtesy of the hard work of countless wageslaves, I choose instead an ascetic lifestyle.

Why can't you wagies do the same? Why do need that 50 inch tv? To watch some **** English football team you've arbitrarily chosen to support lose?

Why the desire for the new car that will cripple you with loan repayments? Do you really need two weeks in Spain for a 'mad sesh with de lads'?

Answer me wagies. Is because you spend 60+ hours a week making someone else rich and you feel the need to 'own' as making things as possible?

The wageslaves I know irl all seem highly agitated and unhappy. I really do think embracing a frugal would make most of you much happier and healthier.

You're a wretch.

The elder does make some good points like do people really need huge TVs and brand new cars and what's with the Irish obsession with houses? I do believe people would be happier if they did things such as walked and cycled more and lived in apartments where you can be closer to local amenities and not as dependant on owning a car.

ILoveYourVibes

You can't make an honest living imo.

Fionn1952

The Elder wrote: »

That doesn't answer why you are hell bent on this life of material excess that leads only to unhappiness.

What about those of us with lives you'd consider materially excessive (I like to go visit new places with the missus, I like good food, a few pints at the weekend, various sports etc. Not what most would consider hugely materialistic, but certainly not a life I could afford on the dole) who aren't unhappy, but actually rather content with life?

The correlation between poverty/unemployment and depression somewhat undermines your point that it's all sunshine and roses living on benefits.

Fingerbang2

Reading through this thread I would advise anyone to get into the IT industry only if they have a genuine passion for it. IT isn’t just programming

People who are very good in IT could get any amount of money. Someone working in IT with two years experience could better than someone with 30 years experience.

Some people work in junior positions their entire life as they don’t have the technical knowledge for any other role and be on an average wage or a lot less.

Every person with an IT degree(which teaches you about 5% of what you actually need in the work place.) are not automatically on big money, only the good people are.

Its not in decline and is a very good career choice if your generally interested and don’t mind constant upskilling.

Out of the 1700 jobs on Irishjobs(not including the big tech firms) there is a huge demand at present and don’t have the applicants to fill the roles.

So to answer people queries Yes there is massive money in IT.
Would the majority of the work force be on huge wages: No but above the average wage

Fingerbang2

nthclare wrote: »

Reminds me of the time an ECDL was as good as a 4 year course in computer applications.

It's the same now my 18 year old has no qualifications in Art or Graphic design and his friends get him to edit photos for their Instagram profile pics and do funny gifs, exchanging head's from, editing videos etc

A dog with a mallet up his arse can do a lot these days on computers.

Then you've people who just come out of rehab doing sociology courses and looking after vunrable people....

Unqualified landscapers making balls of planting schemes and charging top dollar's

That’s not IT your son is doing, it’s digital media.

You really don’t get what people working in IT actually do, do you?

Fingerbang2

BDI wrote: »

It took you 20 years to earn a liveable wage from it and you are giving me advice?
In the 90s programmers were getting way more than they get now adjusting for inflation, in the 2030s they will be getting way less than they do now.

With a small bit of overtime I earn what lads are pretending to earn here. I could do a few nixers each week if I really wanted to boost my earning. Why are you giving me a pro life tip? If you had of got any public sector job 20 years ago you would probably be on what people pretend to earn here.

Seriously what do you have against people working in IT. It’s a good career choice. You seem to think IT is only programming when it’s only one of around twenty different areas or more you can work in.

Fionn1952

The Elder wrote: »

If you can afford then by all means. But so many wagies end up trapped in a life of debt bondage because they are lured into the trap of materialism.

The neet does not feel hate towards the wageslave. Rather he feels pity because he recognizes that had he not figured out how to beat the system, he too would be a slave to the grind.

I'm going to take a guess that you listen to a lot of Amebix and Discharge with all your free time....

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'm going to take a guess that you listen to a lot of Amebix and Discharge with all your free time....

I suspect he's too busy, in the real world, earning a poor wage for all that.

Ubbquittious

Do companies pay mad high wages to any developers working at home 5 days a week?

Fionn1952

The Elder wrote: »

Feel free to laugh wagies but I'm not the one who has to be up at 6am, has to endure a gruelling 2hr commute and then 8+ hours of wageslavery.

I generally wake at 11am. Feel free to take a minute from your 10min coffee break to say hello

Aye, but when do you listen to The Exploited and Anti-Nowhere League?

sasta le

antimatterx wrote: »

I don't mean to offend people, but I'm wondering how people live off low wages (20/30K), buying houses, raising families. It seems impossible to me.

I'm 23, I make 32K as a software engineer, but I live with my parents so I can save a good chunk of money every month. I realize I'm lucky and I'll probably be on 50-70K in 2/3 years, but for people who won't get great raises, how do you live (especially in Dublin)

You are very lucky so

Twister2

seems a lot of assho1es work in IT

Fionn1952

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Do companies pay mad high wages to any developers working at home 5 days a week?

I know a few contractors working from home (nip in to the office once or twice a month) on 800-1200 a day.

They're exceptionally talented individuals with impeccable reputations and very high skills in some very niche, desirable tech stacks.

They also didn't just fall into that position overnight, and would be deep into their careers.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The Elder wrote: »

Feel free to laugh wagies but I'm not the one who has to be up at 6am, has to endure a gruelling 2hr commute and then 8+ hours of wageslavery.

I generally wake at 11am. Feel free to take a minute from your 10min coffee break to say hello

Frankly, I find that hard to believe.
I could do all that if I wish, but there's too much to enjoy to lie in bed half the morning. However, when I get up I can hop in my new car any morning, nip to town for a coffee and a decent lunch. I have all the leisure you seem to waste and all the resources to enjoy it in comfort. I don't think I'd swap for your supposed lifestyle just for the foregoing of a few years doing a well paid job that I enjoyed immensely. Working doesn't have to be a chore and it doesn't take up all your life either.

Padre_Pio

Fingerbang2 wrote: »

Seriously what do you have against people working in IT. It’s a good career choice. You seem to think IT is only programming when it’s only one of around twenty different areas or more you can work in.

Lads don't feed the trolls.

Between the fella on the scratch saying he's happier than the majority earning decent money and the fella saying he could earn that money if he did a few extra nixers, it's just not worth the hassle.

Srameen wrote: »

Frankly, I find that hard to believe.
I could do all that if I wish, but there's too much to enjoy to lie in bed half the morning. However, when I get up I can hop in my new car any morning, nip to town for a coffee and a decent lunch. I have all the leisure you seem to waste and all the resources to enjoy it in comfort. I don't think I'd swap for your supposed lifestyle just for the foregoing of a few years doing a well paid job that I enjoyed immensely. Working doesn't have to be a chore and it doesn't take up all your life either.

Amen.

Id love the idea of a month or two off work to sit on my hole playing the PlayStation, but by god I'd be bored after a week. Like, what do ya even do?

Fingerbang2

Twister2 wrote: »

seems a lot of assho1es work in IT

Nah just people are jealous of IT having a good wage and in a secure line of work which is booming.

Each to their own really

Airyfairy12

They live cheaply and cut corners were they can. They spend every bit of change they have, buy inexpensive, reduced, shop brand food. They buy clothes, curtains, bed sheets and house items from second hand shops and cheap outlets. Buy allot of necessities from Deals and euro shops. They will go without out luxuries or things that arent absolutely needed, wont regularly go on nights out, wont go out for lunch or dinner unless its somewhere inexpensive.
There are benefits available for people but mostly reserved for people who earn under 20,000 a year and working part time so if someone is working full time or part time with hours spread out over the entire week, theyre not entitled to social welfare payments regardless of their income as they can only claim for days they dont work.
People who earn 30,000 and work full time are entitled to nothing.

Youre better off in this country if you dont work and live off the state as you will have everything paid for and a free house, better again if you have kids.

Padre_Pio

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Youre better off in this country if you dont work and live off the state as you will have everything paid for and a free house, better again if you have kids.

That's really not true.

For a certain period, that period when people hit their 30's and have huge expenses like weddings, mortgage, and young children and the massive outlays that come with them, then yes I agree with you, it's f*cking miserable working your ass off and having nothing to show for it.

But either side of that period and especially when children get a bit older, you're much better off financially if you're employed.

CIP4

I think what comes into it for many people is as their Salaries rise so does their spending habits / outgoings so in many cases as you earn more you don't save more or have more money left you just end up spending more. Which does factor into the question asked. I earn 30k a year gradually go up to 50k which my spending goes up with it and then wonder how could anyone survive on 30k. Well they easily could if they are use to only earning 30k. Lifestyle creep is the term often used for the above.

As mentioned though where you live comes into it also as cost of living varies so much county to county.

twowheelsonly

mydingaling2 wrote: »

Would you like any more confirmation on IT and how it is booming? And always will be?

Your lack of knowledge on it is quite outstanding.

Are you jealous of people earning massive wages in IT? And in stable work for life?

Asahi, Fords, Dunlops, Gateaux, Semperit, Irish Press, Packard Electric, Jacobs. That's what I can think of off the top of my head. All 'Jobs For Life' that have shut down and / or moved out in my lifetime.
You could say the same of the Banks, County Councils/Corporation and the Civil Service. Jobs For Life with a handy pension. Not any more I'm afraid.

Don't cod yourself into thinking that you're in some sort of bulletproof industry. High wages and operating overheads are what has forced numerous companies to move their bases abroad. As it is my laptop and work servers can, for the most part, be serviced and maintained from anywhere in the world so only a minimal physical presence is needed on the ground. It's an industry that has massive potential to swallow itself.


Back to the OP...It's a question I actually often ask myself as well. I'm fairly well settled and well paid and find things tight enough at times. I have no clue how people on less than 30k manage to survive, in particular in Dublin.

Padre_Pio

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Asahi, Fords, Dunlops, Gateaux, Semperit, Irish Press, Packard Electric, Jacobs. That's what I can think of off the top of my head. All 'Jobs For Life' that have shut down and / or moved out in my lifetime.
You could say the same of the Banks, County Councils/Corporation and the Civil Service. Jobs For Life with a handy pension. Not any more I'm afraid.

Don't cod yourself into thinking that you're in some sort of bulletproof industry. High wages and operating overheads are what has forced numerous companies to move their bases abroad. As it is my laptop and work servers can, for the most part, be serviced and maintained from anywhere in the world so only a minimal physical presence is needed on the ground. It's an industry that has massive potential to swallow itself.


Back to the OP...It's a question I actually often ask myself as well. I'm fairly well settled and well paid and find things tight enough at times. I have no clue how people on less than 30k manage to survive, in particular in Dublin.

There no such thing as a job for life any more, in any industry.
Bank work used to be jobs for life, now most admin tasks have been automated.
No money in farming any more.
Wages in the public service are fairly sh*te.
Trades used to be jobs for life, then thousands had to leave the country or work for meagre wages during the recession.

The best we can all do is make hay while the sun shines and keep the CV up to date if things go tits up.

BDI

Can the smartest kids in botswana do your job with the correct school system?
That’s basically the limit to your smugness. They could probably come over here and learn mechanical engineering or do an apprenticeship and over ten years show a boss that they can be trusted to run a job worth a few million.

Or

They could get a computer degree and do your job from their house, which can be achieved.

What’s a good wage in Botswana

Geuze

CIP4 wrote: »

I think what comes into it for many people is as their Salaries rise so does their spending habits / outgoings so in many cases as you earn more you don't save more or have more money left you just end up spending more. Which does factor into the question asked. I earn 30k a year gradually go up to 50k which my spending goes up with it and then wonder how could anyone survive on 30k. Well they easily could if they are use to only earning 30k. Lifestyle creep is the term often used for the above.

Yes.

I thought this wouldn't happen to me, but it has.

Moved from 56/57k to 70k in two years, but not feeling it / seeing it.

Of course, the approx 60% MTR I face doesn't help.

(40% tax + 4% PRSI + 4.5% USC + 16.5% pension conts)

anewme

mydingaling2 wrote: »

1600 jobs and so many variations in IT. Do you think all IT jobs are the same and everyone is a programmer?

Theres:
Programming( c, c++, Java, PHP to name a few)
Databases
Hardware
Networking
Security
Windows server administration
Liniux administraton
VMware engineer
Cloud computing engineer
Data centre engineer
Desktop support
SCCM Enginner
Help desk roles

Along with many many more areas. Not everyone is cut out to a programmer where the highest wages are.

People end up in the area that they like best and do certs in their spare time to upskill. Really your embarrassing yourself.

BDI wrote: »

You’re

BDI wrote: »

It took you 20 years to earn a liveable wage from it and you are giving me advice?
In the 90s programmers were getting way more than they get now adjusting for inflation, in the 2030s they will be getting way less than they do now.

With a small bit of overtime I earn what lads are pretending to earn here. I could do a few nixers each week if I really wanted to boost my earning. Why are you giving me a pro life tip? If you had of got any public sector job 20 years ago you would probably be on what people pretend to earn here.

Had of?

Glass Houses and all that.

BDI

Geuze wrote: »

Yes.

I thought this wouldn't happen to me, but it has.

Moved from 56/57k to 70k in two years, but not feeling it / seeing it.

Of course, the approx 60% MTR I face doesn't help.

(40% tax + 4% PRSI + 4.5% USC + 16.5% pension conts)

Congratulations you made it to the level where you realise that after a certain amount you are just taking more money from the boss but not seeing any of it.
Most people however don’t care they want to brag to their friends about how many k they are on.

Padre_Pio

BDI wrote: »

Congratulations you made it to the level where you realise that after a certain amount you are just taking more money from the boss but not seeing any of it.
Most people however don’t care they want to brag to their friends about how many k they are on.

He's still taking home an extra 500 a month easy. If he was actually struggling to pay bills then the extra would be noticed.

The sentiment is that when you have disposable income you spend it. I brought the parents out for dinner recently and dropped 200 euro for 3 of us and didn't think twice. At the end of the month i wonder why I don't have loads of money left too.

But sure it's there to be spent, especially on my family.

nthclare

Biodiversity is one of the up and coming sexy jobs, horticulturalist and ecologist's will make a come back soon enough..

They're just sitting it out for now, watch this space

BDI

Padre_Pio wrote: »

He's still taking home an extra 500 a month easy. If he was actually struggling to pay bills then the extra would be noticed.

The sentiment is that when you have disposable income you spend it. I brought the parents out for dinner recently and dropped 200 euro for 3 of us and didn't think twice. At the end of the month i wonder why I don't have loads of money left too.

But sure it's there to be spent, especially on my family.

5 scaldy hundred a month?
His missus would eat that up getting her legs waxed.

I suppose you have to have it to understand it.

Lads I work with have lunch in tinfoil when they are broke and lunch in centra when they are loaded.

major bill

Twister2 wrote: »

seems a lot of assho1es work in IT

I work in IT and I will back this statement! Programmers for the most part are insufferable *****