RTÉ to cease DAB broadcasting

ford fiesta

Why cant RTE keep the Digital services on web, smartphone and saorview, and get rid of the "DAB" platform...if that is the reason it is so expensive?

L1011

Kite flying. Just like with Lyric, they know Gold is popular.

Get enough people pissed off about potential cuts and a licence fee increase will go down a bit easier. It is 11 years, albeit 11 quite fraught years financially, since the last hike.

KReid

Rte have been pushing the fact that the license fee hasn't been raised in 11 years. They've also lost nearly half their commercial revenue in those 11 years, no organisation should be allowed to sit around and make such losses. After these changes have started to take effect and Rte provides a clearer road map of how they plan to operate as a Media Organisation in the 21st century, then there should be a review into the license fee, covering all kinds of media and consumption methods. They should be careful though, Rte feel entitled to that money, they need to understand that any changes to the license fee could see that money shared with independent broadcasters.


On the DAB factor. We're a fairly small country, FM works perfectly fine, the future is more so on Web. DAB should be pulled for the time being, work out a national plan for it and then brought back if its necessary, but honestly it's nothing compared to what Web based streaming would offer.

AwaitYourReply

lertsnim wrote: »

I use the iPlayer regularly and never have I had to input licence details. I'm only ever asked if I have a licence or not.

Ok, I need to look all this once again as I found myself being asked for TV Licence details when I checked some time ago and this was not always the case. I had heard in the British media that the BBC were stopping unauthorised access by stopping those who did not have a UK TV Licence.

rogue-entity

Zird wrote: »

These cuts are actually very sensible, Dab is a waste of time now as it's 15 years too late.

With an attitude like that, we might as well still be broadcasting Analogue PAL on VHF and listening to AM radio.

Tenshot wrote: »

Very sad to hear DAB is going; I got a DAB radio when I upgraded my car last year and I've been listening to it almost exclusively ever since.

The sound quality is very noticeably better than FM, and I really enjoyed the additional stations (Gold, Extra, +1). I'd love to know exactly how much they will save by shutting it down.

That makes two of us, when you grow up in an area that's painfully under-served it made a breath of fresh air on commutes to Dublin and the like, elsewhere it was bluetooth + phone. Sad fact is the commercial stations by and large don't serve my interests, the licencing regime doesn't allow anyone else to get into the market and RTE were the only ones that could do DAB

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

It's the independent sector's fault that DAB hasn't so far been a success here, as the BAI have had their finger up their ar$e about it, as the IBI stations have indicated their distaste for any competition that other services would bring.

Its the truth, but how many people care enough to complain about it?

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

It's a retrograde step by RTE to close it, although maybe 2rn might now offer the muxes for rental to other companies.

If they do though, no doubt the cost would be too high for independent ops, and it'd be Communicorp and Newsgroup who'd run them.

Agreed but I don't see 2RN renting the equipment to anyone, either it will be scrapped or sit there forgotten about because noone else can enter the market without the BAI's blessing and we know that won't happen.

I also suspect you're correct on it being priced too high for anyone to get in on it, which is a shame because a DAB transmitter doesn't cost substantially more than an FM transmitter, and isn't any more expensive to run than a Digital TV transmitter either.

webwayz wrote: »

2RN should be the sole manager of DAB and DTT, and have additional services.

That's exactly the opposite of what should happen, that's how they ended up in the absurd situation in the UK where one private company operates the transmission gear and the price that was charged to any station wishing to go on DAB was eye-watering

Zird wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me the reaction that every story, regardless of what is, about RTE gets on boards. we are not the only country to abandon DAB, Finland, Singapore, Hong Kong & Canada have done the same. Dab is a busted flush in this country, it has been clear since 2008 that it was never going to be rolled out any further when the independent stations abandoned it. It was always unfair that RTE were spending licence payers money on something that only licence payers based in 3 cities could use, add in the fact that your average Joe posts here wondering why they can't get BBC radio 2 on dab on South kerry, this is a long overdue sensible thing for RTE to do but of course people still complain.

People still complain, not just because a transmission system that carries stations they want to listen to is being closed down, but because the digital stations themselves are also closing so you can't just tell someone to stream it on their phone.

Radio is more than just a non-stop jukebox, for that folks have alternatives; Radio is a human medium, the presenter and the content are what make good radio and why I tune in to stations like Radio 1Extra and will sorely miss it - I am damn well going to complain about having that taken away from me due to myopic thinking on the part of RTE.

If they want to save some cash, shut down that waste of bandwidth that is 2FM and stop wasting taxpayers money competing with the iRadios, Spins and Beats.

Lovenova

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well it shouldn't be up to RTE to run DAB but as they do it's weird that they'll look to save a small amount here while leaving 2FM untouched (bar a few salaries cut) and keeping all the orchestras. Though I suppose the answer here is that DAB has no "friends" the orchestras do

Don’t think RTÉ ever wanted to run but were cajoled into it . Population wise DAB reaches about 50% in Ireland . It’s services are also available on line

lengon

It's the multiplex operators who fix the charges and for example London has three so there is competition:all told London has around 100 stations and many other areas around 60 and added to the mix in the near future will be many more low cost small scale multiplexes providing hundreds more stations. So while the system is by no means perfect it does seem to work.

Ursus Horribilis

Even if DAB ever worked properly here, I doubt we'd ever have had anywhere near that number of stations. Even with the smaller population.

rogue-entity

rogue-entity wrote: »

With an attitude like that, we might as well still be broadcasting Analogue PAL on VHF and listening to AM radio.

Don't be that harsh on analogue PAL, because the current standard definition picture on Saorview is actually of a worse quality.

AwaitYourReply

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't be that harsh on analogue PAL, because the current standard definition picture on Saorview is actually of a worse quality.

I would have to share your viewpoint.
I find the high definition picture on channels on SkyHD digital satellite platform has deteriorated over time as carriers try to squeeze more channels on to transponders to save on cost but the quality is not as clear & crisp as we were led to believe all those years ago. The same will probably happen with Ultra High Definition (UHD) 4K in the years ahead.

In fact, the HD reception on my RTÉ One and RTÉ 2 is a far superior picture via Saorview as opposed to Sky HD in my experience.

RabbleRouser2k

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

I would have to share your viewpoint.
I find the high definition picture on channels on SkyHD digital satellite platform has deteriorated over time as carriers try to squeeze more channels on to transponders to save on cost but the quality is not as clear & crisp as we were led to believe all those years ago. The same will probably happen with Ultra High Definition (UHD) 4K in the years ahead.

In fact, the HD reception on my RTÉ One and RTÉ 2 is a far superior picture via Saorview as opposed to Sky HD in my experience.

I've noticed the audio mix on some channels is horrendous. You sit there having to constantly adjust the volume to hear the dialogue, then the explosions or vehicle noises are like 'BAM!!!!' .

Just ridiculous sound mixing-and I'm not the only one who noticed. When Catch 22 was shown on Channel 4, the first episode had a number of people complaining that they had their tv's at almost top volume, and still couldn't hear things.

radioguru02

Look, bottom line is, DAB will never take off over here. As end of the road stated in an earlier post, there’s still life in FM radio here. That will probably fall into decline eventually as well, if and when everyone starts to stream everything
My 53-year-old father hasn’t touched the house radio since Alexa joined the family - my parents even use it to listen to WLR, which is available to them on our traditional radios!
All that said best of luck to FreeDAB, always turn it on when I can pick it up.

end of the road

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Look, bottom line is, DAB will never take off over here.

source?

pirateradiohed wrote: »

As end of the road stated in an earlier post, there’s still life in FM radio here. That will probably fall into decline eventually as well, if and when everyone starts to stream everything

it is already falling into decline, terrestrial radio listening is slowly but surely going down.

Zird

end of the road wrote: »

source?

Cop yourself on End of the road, The independent stations don't want it and now RTE are closing down their limited network, I'm afraid a few anoraks listening to a few pirate multiplexes set up by other anoraks doesn't count as something taking off.

end of the road

Zird wrote: »

Cop yourself on End of the road, The independent stations don't want it and now RTE are closing down their limited network, I'm afraid a few anoraks listening to a few pirate multiplexes set up by other anoraks doesn't count as something taking off.

cop yourself on zird.
if you want to be taken seriously, you are going to need to do way way better then some little rant about anoraks listening to pirate multiplexes, for which there is no evidence to show that only anoraks are listening or the opposite.
you have a thing it seems for making digs at anoraks, who are not the ones making the claims about the definite future of any platform and who would actually agree that the listeners come before any interest in the medium of radio, regardless of what happens.
there are even non-anoraks such as myself who haven't listened to terrestrial radio for years and who won't be back, who are stating that absolutely dab or any similar terrestrial platform should simply have a legal framework in place for operation and then let the market decide, and if it takes off great, if itdoesn't so be it.
i couldn't care a less as to whether dab takes off as it won't effect me either way personally, but i do care that any platform is unable to operate legally, just to potentially protect existing interests.

rogue-entity

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't be that harsh on analogue PAL, because the current standard definition picture on Saorview is actually of a worse quality.

I have to agree with you on that, and I put the blame squarely on TPTB that disincentivise the broadcasting in HD on DTT and the licencing regime almost guarantees that the spectrum won't be used by anyone so no competition.

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Look, bottom line is, DAB will never take off over here.

Even with that being the case, my anger is directed not so much at RTE shutting down a transmission service but their shutting down of not just one but two good services that I listen to and I can't see there being substantial savings in doing either.

Surely shutting down 252 would save more money than shutting down the three DAB muxes nevermind the pennies saved in closing largely automated radio services.

You can bet I'm angry about this decision.

And I'd buy and run the damn multiplex myself if I thought I had a snowballs chance in acquiring the equipment.

Zird

rogue-entity wrote: »

I have to agree with you on that, and I put the blame squarely on TPTB that disincentivise the broadcasting in HD on DTT and the licencing regime almost guarantees that the spectrum won't be used by anyone so no competition.

Even with that being the case, my anger is directed not so much at RTE shutting down a transmission service but their shutting down of not just one but two good services that I listen to and I can't see there being substantial savings in doing either.

Surely shutting down 252 would save more money than shutting down the three DAB muxes nevermind the pennies saved in closing largely automated radio services.

You can bet I'm angry about this decision.

And I'd buy and run the damn multiplex myself if I thought I had a snowballs chance in acquiring the equipment.

The 252 dabate has been done to death, RTE wanted to close it down years ago but politicians went absolutely mental.

rogue-entity

Zird wrote: »

The 252 dabate has been done to death, RTE wanted to close it down years ago but politicians went absolutely mental.

Then maybe those politicians should pay the bill for the running cost, just a thought.

radioguru02

end of the road wrote: »

cop yourself on zird.
if you want to be taken seriously, you are going to need to do way way better then some little rant about anoraks listening to pirate multiplexes, for which there is no evidence to show that only anoraks are listening or the opposite.
you have a thing it seems for making digs at anoraks, who are not the ones making the claims about the definite future of any platform and who would actually agree that the listeners come before any interest in the medium of radio, regardless of what happens.
there are even non-anoraks such as myself who haven't listened to terrestrial radio for years and who won't be back, who are stating that absolutely dab or any similar terrestrial platform should simply have a legal framework in place for operation and then let the market decide, and if it takes off great, if itdoesn't so be it.
i couldn't care a less as to whether dab takes off as it won't effect me either way personally, but i do care that any platform is unable to operate legally, just to potentially protect existing interests.

Look, it is what it is end of the road. I’m an anorak, but I know the ordinary joe soap who listens to radio, bar a few exceptions, couldn’t care less about DAB. Unfortunately though, I don’t have a source that provides sufficient evidence to back this up, so you’ll probably deem it irrelevant and/or invalid

Former Former

rogue-entity wrote: »

And I'd buy and run the damn multiplex myself if I thought I had a snowballs chance in acquiring the equipment.

Run the multiplex with... What stations?

RTÉ have bailed. The independents have no interest.

When you take out the discussion about what should have happened years ago, what are you left with? If we only focus on what will happen, or will probably happen, there's only one answer.

Rightly or wrongly, DAB is finished in Ireland. There's no way back unless an EU directive mandates it, which is very unlikely.

"My broadcaster don't dab, we just Frequency Modulate."

Jonathan1990

As a person from the UK where DAB is doing very well and more stations keep coming I feel disappointed for Ireland that DAB is switching off. Wonder what will happen to DAB radios or wheather Ireland will get the British DAB stations in some parts of Ireland. I know Ireland is the second country after Canada to have a DAB switch off. Then there's Norway that's become DAB only. Also wondering why DAB's so successful in other countries but not Ireland and Canada.

lengon

Jonathan1990 wrote: »

As a person from the UK where DAB is doing very well and more stations keep coming I feel disappointed for Ireland that DAB is switching off. Wonder what will happen to DAB radios or wheather Ireland will get the British DAB stations in some parts of Ireland. I know Ireland is the second country after Canada to have a DAB switch off. Then there's Norway that's become DAB only. Also wondering why DAB's so successful in other countries but not Ireland and Canada.

No, several other countries have abandoned DAB, Finland, Singapore, Hong Kong for example but I think it's a pity that Ireland is going the same way. Certainly Ofcom in the UK have made mistakes but one of the good things they did was to get the independents on board by granting an extension of their FM licences if they went on DAB. The BAI should have done the same.

end of the road

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Look, it is what it is end of the road. I’m an anorak, but I know the ordinary joe soap who listens to radio, bar a few exceptions, couldn’t care less about DAB. Unfortunately though, I don’t have a source that provides sufficient evidence to back this up, so you’ll probably deem it irrelevant and/or invalid

correct it is irrelevant and invalid, so i'm finishing this line of discussion here so we can move on further and not drag down the thread.

radioguru02

Former Former wrote: »

Run the multiplex with... What stations?

RTÉ have bailed. The independents have no interest.

When you take out the discussion about what should have happened years ago, what are you left with? If we only focus on what will happen, or will probably happen, there's only one answer.

Rightly or wrongly, DAB is finished in Ireland. There's no way back unless an EU directive mandates it, which is very unlikely.

There are independent stations interested, hence the need for the likes of FreeDAB

Infoanon

pirateradiohed wrote: »

There are independent stations interested, hence the need for the likes of FreeDAB

The legal independents have no interest (despite noises from certain quarters chasing publicity )

drjhen

So with more and more new models of cars having dab receivers I think that it is not a model dead just yet,maybe with the advent of 5g it will become so but at the moment apart from fm radio it is the most accessible form of radio broadcasting for most people and we should embrace the choices it can give the general public,the bai need to wake up out of their slumber and start to promote the dab network,it will need some investment to make it properly work nationwide but as with all investments you need to sow to reap,and it is important to bring all stakeholders with you on this journey and that needs leadership so for example today fm yes we will renew your licence but you must broadcast on the dab network within a certain period of time to fulfill the conditions of the licence but as an incentive we will also allow you to broadcast 2 more stations on the dab network,hopefully the bai will realise that to stand still will just mean that more and more people will just go online to listen to their music so when we hear of all the concern about public service broadcasting is it not important that we offer an alternative to the public and have some local and relevant choices for the public,and on a side note with 2xm closing I hope that Freedab will offer an indie alternative in the near future,it is needed and I have to say I applaud their efforts in pushing the agenda,well done and keep up the good work.

Zird

I don't get why people keep using the old chestnut about car radios having DAB???? Every single car on the road in Ireland today has an AM (Medium wave) tuner but people don't use/think about that either.

drjhen

Agreed but the audio quality is neither there or possible,with dab and fm the quality is so much better but of course the strength of signal comes into play and that is why I mention investment in the dab network and by the way most new cars do not have an am/mw receiver, point is that if we want to have some form of public broadcasting in the future we need to evolve and adapt and now is the time because it becomes twice as hard to attract people back when you lose them,anyway just my view on the current situation,hopefully it opens a debate and I mean this when I say if you are genuine about the future of broadcasting your opinion matters now more than ever do we hand it over to the lottery of the internet or can we offer a choice that people can choose and not the current situation of blandness on commercial radio.

end of the road

Zird wrote: »

I don't get why people keep using the old chestnut about car radios having DAB????
Every single car on the road in Ireland today has an AM (Medium wave) tuner but people don't use/think about that either.

people have no obligation to be thinking about every single platform that exists just because they have an opinion on one to be fair.
we can't spend our lives thinking about every single possible thing that may be similar to something we happen to be discussing with someone at a particular time, otherwise we would never be able to get anything done.

rogue-entity

Jonathan1990 wrote: »

Also wondering why DAB's so successful in other countries but not Ireland and Canada.

Different licencing models that enabled or killed it depending on the circumstances.

Former Former wrote: »

Run the multiplex with... What stations?

Though I said it more as an expression of exasperation because I'm unhappy about the situation, irked at the lack of alternatives and disappointed that I'm stuck with feck-all on FM.

However:
Regular stations that are not otherwise available in the area the multiplex would be operating?
Stations forced to broadcast online-only, but have an opportunity to broadcast to a less tech-savvy audience?

Jonathan1990 wrote: »

Rightly or wrongly, DAB is finished in Ireland. There's no way back unless an EU directive mandates it, which is very unlikely.

Which raises the questions, are you satisfied with the content available only on FM? Do you listen to the radio anymore? Are you a jukeboxer or do you stream foreign stations and pray you have acceptable mobile coverage?

Former Former

The car radio argument will likewise cease to matter as Android Auto and Apple Car Play become more and more common and all the reasons why internet radio is better will apply in your car too.

radioguru02

rogue-entity wrote: »

Different licencing models that enabled or killed it depending on the circumstances.


Though I said it more as an expression of exasperation because I'm unhappy about the situation, irked at the lack of alternatives and disappointed that I'm stuck with feck-all on FM.

However:
Regular stations that are not otherwise available in the area the multiplex would be operating?
Stations forced to broadcast online-only, but have an opportunity to broadcast to a less tech-savvy audience?


Which raises the questions, are you satisfied with the content available only on FM? Do you listen to the radio anymore? Are you a jukeboxer or do you stream foreign stations and pray you have acceptable mobile coverage?

OK, this is interesting. Absolutely, what do we want? That’s what it all boils down to at the end of the day? I’m a student. Typically enough most of what I listen to I stream. Neither FM or DAB are a neccesity in my daily life, although I am a bit of an anorak.
I have all the choice I need on the net. Would I like to see a larger and more varied list of stations displayed in the car? Yes I would. But I don’t think DAB is the answer.

radioguru02

Former Former wrote: »

The car radio argument will likewise cease to matter as Android Auto and Apple Car Play become more and more common and all the reasons why internet radio is better will apply in your car too.

100%

More Music

pirateradiohed wrote: »

Look, bottom line is, DAB will never take off over here.

source?



it is already falling into decline, terrestrial radio listening is slowly but surely going down.

True. So why force stations to re-invest heavily in a medium with declining listenership. FM coverage is for the most part quite good as is the audio quality.

No, I’m not against choice, keeping the closed shop for the current operators or new technology obviously but it’s too late for DAB here.

Internet based technology is the way forward.

More Music

Jonathan1990 wrote: »

Then there's Norway that's become DAB only......

Incorrect.

2 years ago the national stations in Norway switched to DAB. Local stations still remain on FM throughout the entire country.

Spanish Eyes

Could someone tell me why DAB is so necessary these days?

Surely all stations around the world on Tunein and the likes can be accessed on phones now?

Just wondered what DAB has that radio apps do not have now, since Wi Fi is necessary for DAB anyway. Hope I am making sense here.

radioguru02

More Music wrote: »

True. So why force stations to re-invest heavily in a medium with declining listenership. FM coverage is for the most part quite good as is the audio quality.

No, I’m not against choice, keeping the closed shop for the current operators or new technology obviously but it’s too late for DAB here.

Internet based technology is the way forward.

Nail on head

rogue-entity

Former Former wrote: »

The car radio argument will likewise cease to matter as Android Auto and Apple Car Play become more and more common and all the reasons why internet radio is better will apply in your car too.

As things stand at the moment, I would respectfully disagree that "internet radio is better" regardless of where you're listening to it, because it does not scale.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Could someone tell me why DAB is so necessary these days?

For the same reason that Satellite and Terrestrial broadcasting is necessary - it scales with a fixed cost for the broadcaster irrespective of the amount of listeners.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Surely all stations around the world on Tunein and the likes can be accessed on phones now?

Assuming the stations don't apply geoblocking (very common with US, and some European stations), then yes you can but there's a cap on the maximum number of listeners. The only ways it can scale means that ISPs become the content gatekeepers in the same manner that multiplex or transponder operators are or someone has some deep pockets.

Broadcasting is simply the most efficient way to reach a wide number of potential listeners, FM is cheap and inexpensive but you're limited to what stations you can receive while DAB in theory allows you to listen to a wider selection.

DAB broadcasting here is dead but I fear that FM will follow and we may well come to regret it.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just wondered what DAB has that radio apps do not have now, since Wi Fi is necessary for DAB anyway. Hope I am making sense here.

DAB doesn't require WiFi it's the radio version of Saorview.

odyssey06

I found it convenient that I could pickup the DAB channels through a Saorview TV or through UPC\Virgin Media TV.
I'm sure I can find alternatives but it was handy. And my alternative stations will not be any of the reduced RTE offerings as they currently stand.

plodder

rogue-entity wrote: »

As things stand at the moment, I would respectfully disagree that "internet radio is better" regardless of where you're listening to it, because it does not scale.


For the same reason that Satellite and Terrestrial broadcasting is necessary - it scales with a fixed cost for the broadcaster irrespective of the amount of listeners.

Multicast IP will eventually fix that problem, I believe.

The BBC has done some good research in this area, but quite a lot of work is needed to develop all the required technical standards, particularly on the client side.

Long term, I wonder, if it's the case we are abandoning DAB, could the frequency spectrum be allocated to mobile ISPs on preferential terms if they agree to support this type of multicast service.

Zird

This is a bit random but something I've noticed is people in Ireland when talking about DAB radio always say the word Dab, as in a dab of lipstick but in the UK everyone says the letters Dee A Bee

Former Former

rogue-entity wrote: »

As things stand at the moment, I would respectfully disagree that "internet radio is better" regardless of where you're listening to it, because it does not scale.

That's a fair point. However, by the time any DAB network is up and running in Ireland, the bandwidth and speed of mobile networks here will be many multiples of what it is now.

I'm really going to miss the digital channels particularly Gold and Radio 1 Extra.Hope there is a backlash like the one in the UK when the BBC were going to shut down BBC 6 Music!

JDxtra

Zird wrote: »

This is a bit random but something I've noticed is people in Ireland when talking about DAB radio always say the word Dab, as in a dab of lipstick but in the UK everyone says the letters Dee A Bee

That's because we're not used to it!

tv3tg4

DAB should have been nationwide and open to commercial broadcasters.

It is a disgrace RTE shutting it down.

Typical RTE

JDxtra

tv3tg4 wrote: »

DAB should have been nationwide and open to commercial broadcasters.

It is a disgrace RTE shutting it down.

Typical RTE

Commercial broadcasters had no interest in the platform - so when things got tight, it left RTE with no other option other than to say they will pull it. They rightly should not fund it on their own. Their needs to be proper government direction on the platform and the future of FM - not endless and pointless "trials".

tv3tg4

JDxtra wrote: »

Commercial broadcasters had no interest in the platform - so when things got tight, it left RTE with no other option other than to say they will pull it. They rightly should not fund it on their own. Their needs to be proper government direction on the platform and the future of FM - not endless and pointless "trials".

I agree. Complete lack of leadership on part of the government on this.

Ready4Boarding

Una Mullally today chides RTE for backing DAB instead of podcasting, as though they are alternatives. According to her, it would seem, RTE's current fortunes can be attributed partly to its failure to properly podcast.

Former Former

tv3tg4 wrote: »

DAB should have been nationwide and open to commercial broadcasters.

It is a disgrace RTE shutting it down.

Typical RTE

As pointed out, it wasn't RTE's job to build a national network and they had no legal power to either put commercial broadcasters on the air or prevent them from doing so. They kept going with DAB long after everyone else had given up.

Typical of the very badly informed people who are always critical of RTÉ yet are the ones most in desperate need of RTE's services.