RTÉ to cease DAB broadcasting

SimonMaher

Former Former wrote: »

I believe people would apply for licences, yes. I don't think I've ever said no one would apply.

The point is that a multiplex is a tiny, tiny fraction of what is required to make DAB viable.

This is good! Thanks for your answer, appreciated.

So, I reckon that it's safe to assume that people will apply for DAB Mux licences so presumably they think it's a viable proposition. Next step then is to come up with a price that is reasonable for the MUX operator and a carriage cost figure that broadcasters will be able to justify.

Now, viability means very different things to very different people. For a large radio group, DAB is likely to be about brand extensions, new brands etc and is likely to be more an advertising and publicity tool than an actual stand-alone profit making venture.

That viability is entirely different then to viability for a broadcaster like 8Radio (just for example!) who are looking to be on as many platforms as possible in order to build hours listened, station awareness etc. Even then though, would 8Radio be relying on DAB for their revenue corn? I would venture (with some insight!) that the answer is no. It's all about getting the business model right.

So, if it could work for the Multiplex operator, if it could work for the big radio groups and it could work for the small broadcasters (depending on getting the model right) then "viability" is suddenly a very different beast.

Simon
8Radio.com

rogue-entity

lengon wrote: »

So what is it about Ireland that it can't do what so many other countries can?

Although your point is in the context of the thread topic, I believe the phenomenon is not unique to this topic but can be observed across other sectors of 'the Irish way of doing things' including and not limited to our position on ID cards (to use an example).

There seems to be, from my observation, a combination of 'vested interest', intransigence, Not-Invented-Here syndrome and a bizarre desire to follow England. It frequently appears that if another country, particularly one of comparable size and population density develops an idea, system or process that would be worthy of consideration and potentially implementing - we either completely ignore it or we ignore all the mistakes they made and implement it from scratch, badly.

Bringing this back to DAB - the UK model, as I recall, was a combination of the BBC's public-services MUX and tendered licences for one or two commercial operators. I do not know if this was similar to the screwing that mobile phone operators get for spectrum or just profiteering but some time after I recall a conversation about a price charged to broadcast on a DAB MUX in NI - a figure to the tune of £1,500 per month.

Former Former wrote: »

The other issue is that other DAB networks predate the absolute behemoth that is mobile internet. If these other countries were starting from scratch in 2020, would they still go with DAB?

Short answer is Yes with an if, long answer is No with a but.

If there's not sufficient space left on the FM band to add additional services they may have no option but to switch to DAB to operate a cost-effective broadcast service. If they have sufficient space and a closed market like ours, then they may decline to do so but accept that this will force alternative services to stream online with all of the limitations that come with that.

Take an online service, suppose you want to reach 1 million listeners - there's no means to do that cheaply and without either significant capital expense and ongoing operational expense on your part - or - paying someone else even more money to do that for you. To reach 1 million people and lets say we'll use HE-AAC at 48kbit/sec, you'd need ~48Gbit if I add another 20% to allow for uplink and overheads that's ~58Gbit which is quite a lot. A single DAB transmitter at a good site in a city area would cover the same number of listeners and cost significantly less to run.

Multicasting is an interesting idea, but then your broadcaster has two choices: Remain small and operate their own streaming servers, or pay each ISP to broadcast on their potential or existing platforms.

In short, Internet Radio is a dead end. I suspect the only reason it works at all today is that it has very few listeners.

SimonMaher wrote: »

Former Former, do you honestly believe that if DAB Multiplex Licences covering the major urban areas were offered in the morning that nobody would apply?

Former raised the point so that's why I'm asking him directly but the same question also goes to the other (generally newly registered) users who have been posting about it in the absolutist way that only the internet allows

Simon
8Radio.com

If the means to acquire a licence to operate a DAB mux were available, and not at an obscene price, I would be on it in a heartbeat.

Ursus Horribilis

If DAB can be funded privately, I don't see a problem. If it has to come out of the public coffers, to the detriment of broadband or something like that, absolutely not.

Paul Pott

National radio carriage on saorview could be done for under 50 grand a year but none of the independent stations have touched that either whereas in the UK all the independent stations are on Freeview.

Infoanon

H

Paul Pott wrote: »

National radio carriage on saorview could be done for under 50 grand a year but none of the independent stations have touched that either whereas in the UK all the independent stations are on Freeview.

There is a big difference between the penatration of free view and Saorview ,additionally- afaik stations have tried to get access but only Radio Maria has got carriage.

Short term protectionism instead of long term planning and realities

Former Former

Paul Pott wrote: »

National radio carriage on saorview could be done for under 50 grand a year but none of the independent stations have touched that either whereas in the UK all the independent stations are on Freeview.

How many people even know that Saorview carries radio, let alone use it for that purpose?

That 50k would be very poor value for money.

end of the road

Former Former wrote: »

How many people even know that Saorview carries radio, let alone use it for that purpose?

That 50k would be very poor value for money.

and even then it probably would be a lot more then 50k for carriage.

Franko87

rogue-entity wrote: »

Although your point is in the context of the thread topic, I believe the phenomenon is not unique to this topic but can be observed across other sectors of 'the Irish way of doing things' including and not limited to our position on ID cards (to use an example).

There seems to be, from my observation, a combination of 'vested interest', intransigence, Not-Invented-Here syndrome and a bizarre desire to follow England. It frequently appears that if another country, particularly one of comparable size and population density develops an idea, system or process that would be worthy of consideration and potentially implementing - we either completely ignore it or we ignore all the mistakes they made and implement it from scratch, badly.

Bringing this back to DAB - the UK model, as I recall, was a combination of the BBC's public-services MUX and tendered licences for one or two commercial operators. I do not know if this was similar to the screwing that mobile phone operators get for spectrum or just profiteering but some time after I recall a conversation about a price charged to broadcast on a DAB MUX in NI - a figure to the tune of £1,500 per month.


Short answer is Yes with an if, long answer is No with a but.

If there's not sufficient space left on the FM band to add additional services they may have no option but to switch to DAB to operate a cost-effective broadcast service. If they have sufficient space and a closed market like ours, then they may decline to do so but accept that this will force alternative services to stream online with all of the limitations that come with that.

Take an online service, suppose you want to reach 1 million listeners - there's no means to do that cheaply and without either significant capital expense and ongoing operational expense on your part - or - paying someone else even more money to do that for you. To reach 1 million people and lets say we'll use HE-AAC at 48kbit/sec, you'd need ~48Gbit if I add another 20% to allow for uplink and overheads that's ~58Gbit which is quite a lot. A single DAB transmitter at a good site in a city area would cover the same number of listeners and cost significantly less to run.

Multicasting is an interesting idea, but then your broadcaster has two choices: Remain small and operate their own streaming servers, or pay each ISP to broadcast on their potential or existing platforms.

In short, Internet Radio is a dead end. I suspect the only reason it works at all today is that it has very few listeners.


If the means to acquire a licence to operate a DAB mux were available, and not at an obscene price, I would be on it in a heartbeat.

the big issue here regarding dab is from the mux operator .licencing .firstly com-reg have no permanent licence available only test and trial meaning 1 year maybe 2 max and that is it your done there is a history regarding dab going back as far as 08 i think .total broadcast setup the first mux .and got 2 years from it . then there was eirdab who got a year. the point her is until com-reg re visit the licencing DAB there will be Little or no services on dab . .which is a issue .how do you convert the public to something the is not there. FreeDAB is trying to provide a service because of the issues with licencing . and to be honest if com-reg did entertain FreeDAB in regards licensing you can be sure thay are stations out there carrying section 71 licences who would gladly come on board

ford fiesta

Former Former wrote: »

How many people even know that Saorview carries radio, let alone use it for that purpose?

That 50k would be very poor value for money.

RTE digital radio stations are also carried on the other tv packages such as Eir and Virgin Media

Here's hoping the decision will be reversed and keep the RTE digital stations

Ally Dick

Thick question - would this affect podcasts of RTE shows on Spotify?

end of the road

Ally Dick wrote: »

Thick question - would this affect podcasts of RTE shows on Spotify?

no .
very very different beasts altogether.