Passive aggressive bullying

Dotty polly

Hi all, hoping for some advice. Is it possible to ask to be moved from my current office to another one to get away from a colleague that is bullying me? Would there be a reason this would be refused?
I've already had an informal meeting with management over issues with my colleague but I have no intention of making a formal complaint & going further with this. We are no longer on speaking terms & I know that won't change.

vixdname

Theres nothing stopping you asking to be moved, it will totally depend on if theres a suitable position in another dept \ location within the company.
It will also depend on how serious management consider the bullying claim, if they know you wont make a formal complaint they may well just take a "wait and see" approach and hope its a storm in a tea cup affair.
If on the otherhand the bullying escalates and nothing is done, you can have a case of the company not adhereing to bullying policies.

Strumms

can I ask you OP why you don’t want to make a formal complaint ? The behavior you are describing is horrible and needs addressing. The only way to achieve this is by using the correct and formal channels and letting an investigation take its course. By not doing this you are simply enabling the behavior to continue.

If an investigation takes place and there isn’t enough evidence to discipline the culprit, they will still have their card marked by their manager and that ‘should’ be a significant deterrent to them..

The only way to deter a bully is to fight back. A long time ago I was in a similar situation, chose to keep my head down and for that I paid the price..

As much as possible try and keep any and all work communication with the culprit on email. When documented it’s log of evidence. If they prefer to ‘talk’ make a stand that you wish to keep it to email.

If they choose to ignore your emails that’s straight away EVIDENCE of bullying AND being unprofessional , if and when they reply everything needs to be in polite and professional terms.

Email is a ‘log’ that will either hang them or help possibly to change behavior.

IF the individual wishes to enter into a conversation as way of a reply...’ ohhh listen I’m a bit swamped here, can you just reply to the email and then we’ll have a chat, thanks”.

They won’t like all of a sudden, you changing the terms of engagement, they won’t like all of a sudden having to watch their words and manners with care....

all of the above with a smile, calm demeanor...

It will drive them bat shît crazy, they all of a sudden are on the back foot, not you.

drunkmonkey

Have another word on the quite with your manager and ask them what's the easiest way to get them moved away from you out of eyesight? Don't go down the hard road unless you need to.
They should accommodate you.

mvl

Just wanted to make a note with some info on bullying in work - https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Bullying_at_Work/
Also - have you tried asking first to be assigned to different tasks/project than this person, so there is nothing to talk about ? Wonder if it might be easier to organize this than moving office.

skallywag

What is the nature of the bullying? Can you give some details?

antimatterx

Does Bullying actually go on in workplaces?

Where I work, bullying another staff member would not be tolerated, and that's from your colleagues, never mind upper management and HR.

Wanderer2010

antimatterx wrote: »

Does Bullying actually go on in workplaces?

.

Wow, are you for real?

high_king

antimatterx wrote: »

Does Bullying actually go on in workplaces?

Where I work, bullying another staff member would not be tolerated, and that's from your colleagues, never mind upper management and HR.

lol

Strumms

antimatterx wrote: »

Does Bullying actually go on in workplaces?

Where I work, bullying another staff member would not be tolerated, and that's from your colleagues, never mind upper management and HR.

Yes it does, the reason it flourishes is because often the people who ought to be standing up for their colleagues are often prepared to do it in private, WhatsApp, canteen, the pub but when it comes to more then talking and sympathizing actions of note IN the workplace and a voice of solidarity is absent....excuses I’ve found....

- ‘Well I’m up for promotion myself I can’t be seen to....’

- ‘We have pay negotiations coming up, I’m not rocking the boat, I have 2 kids, mortgage etc...’

- ‘look that shift change I put in for, I need it so she can go back to work, not rocking the boat.’



When I was looking for backup in my situation I found this shît, all back patting and slagging off managers over a sandwich but prepared to do fûck all in any meaningful way when it counted. The ‘but I have kids’ brigade being the fûcking worst.

When they themselves needed something I was of course tapped to help out.

mvl

Besides, there are cases when a "bully" is not even aware of being perceived as hurtful or offensive, because their brain is wired differently.

Strumms

mvl wrote: »

Besides, there are cases when a "bully" is not even aware of being perceived as hurtful or offensive, because their brain is wired differently.

They are aware I think, but the way their brain is wired means they just don’t care. It doesn’t register as a problem. They could have grown up in a home or social environment where a ‘survival of the fittest’ type mentality was encouraged and an aggressive nature, ruthless personality was encouraged too. I’ve seen and worked with this type, it takes a while to get their game but when you do, never so much as give them an inch. You can’t afford to...

I’ve had one try their damnedest to nick my shift which was socially preferentially to theirs by ways of them getting a medical cert to say they could no longer work nights due to insomnia, depression etc.... I knew a family member of theirs who confirmed it was all BS and just an attempt to get off nights, they did manage to eventually all be it not at my expense. After that they had the neck to try and get me from a Mon - Fri roster to Tue-Sat which I’d done for years and hated.... excuse... “well I have to take the kids to sport, art etc... this is supposed to be a family oriented company, Strumms doesn’t have kids”.

That too didn’t fly but it was up in the air for a while... that’s bullying too, bullying can be with actions as much as with words. We are conditioned to think bulling is something done by means of aggression, physical or verbal.. but not so prevalent in work scenarios it’s often done by ways of lying, undermining, devious, truculent behavior.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

They are aware I think, but the way their brain is wired means they just don’t care. It doesn’t register as a problem. They could have grown up in a home or social environment where a ‘survival of the fittest’ type mentality was encouraged and an aggressive nature, ruthless personality was encouraged too. I’ve seen and worked with this type, it takes a while to get their game but when you do, never so much as give them an inch. You can’t afford to...

I’ve had one try their damnedest to nick my shift which was socially preferentially to theirs by ways of them getting a medical cert to say they could no longer work nights due to insomnia, depression etc.... I knew a family member of theirs who confirmed it was all BS and just an attempt to get off nights, they did manage to eventually all be it not at my expense. After that they had the neck to try and get me from a Mon - Fri roster to Tue-Sat which I’d done for years and hated.... excuse... “well I have to take the kids to sport, art etc... this is supposed to be a family oriented company, Strumms doesn’t have kids”.

That too didn’t fly but it was up in the air for a while... that’s bullying too, bullying can be with actions as much as with words. We are conditioned to think bulling is something done by means of aggression, physical or verbal.. but not so prevalent in work scenarios it’s often done by ways of lying, undermining, devious, truculent behavior.

Someone trying to change from a night shift to day, and who possibly has a medical reason for doing so is not bullying. And thinking that you are the focus of that switch suggests you may have a persecution complex. This really does a disservice to people who genuinely suffer bullying, when frivolous claims like this are made, you suffered no loss of dignity by this.

Op, if you are looking for opinions on what the company’s response should be, it might be worth giving an indication of the nature and severity of the bullying. Recent court rulings have raised the bar on what constitutes bullying in the workplace.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Someone trying to change from a night shift to day, and who possibly has a medical reason for doing so is not bullying. And thinking that you are the focus of that switch suggests you may have a persecution complex. This really does a disservice to people who genuinely suffer bullying, when frivolous claims like this are made, you suffered no loss of dignity by this.

Op, if you are looking for opinions on what the company’s response should be, it might be worth giving an indication of the nature and severity of the bullying. Recent court rulings have raised the bar on what constitutes bullying in the workplace.

seeking change, 100% ok, where and when a vacancy exists... actually actively targeting and trying to get someone fûcked off their shift having arranged every facet of my life around it, that’s bullying. Lying about medical issues, family problems the same. I suffered no loss of dignity correct because I stood up for myself,in the office, canteen, managers office you HAVE to.

In the aftermath this individual blanked me in the canteen, in company transport when we are sat beside each other... that’s bullying pure and simple, no complex, just calling it as it it. Be it me or whomever.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

seeking change, 100% ok, where and when a vacancy exists... actually actively targeting and trying to get someone fûcked off their shift having arranged every facet of my life around it, that’s bullying. Lying about medical issues, family problems the same. I suffered no loss of dignity correct because I stood up for myself,in the office, canteen, managers office you HAVE to.

In the aftermath this individual blanked me in the canteen, in company transport when we are sat beside each other... that’s bullying pure and simple, no complex, just calling it as it it. Be it me or whomever.

It really isn’t, you suffered no loss of dignity, if a GP has diagnosed and certified a medical problem, you are in no position to contradict that. One co worker who doesn’t even work on your shift not talking to you is not bullying, you are derailing another thread.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

It really isn’t, you suffered no loss of dignity, if a GP has diagnosed and certified a medical problem, you are in no position to contradict that. One co worker who doesn’t even work on your shift not talking to you is not bullying, you are derailing another thread.

Not at all, it’s a discussion forum.. people are entitled to relate their own experiences as part of it. If you believe it’s derailed, report it.

high_king

mvl wrote: »

Besides, there are cases when a "bully" is not even aware of being perceived as hurtful or offensive, because their brain is wired differently.

lol

TheW1zard

Start a **** list. Log any interactions. Have in back pocket for when the time comes.
Id tackle it head on. Speaking from experience

Strumms

TheW1zard wrote: »

Start a **** list. Log any interactions. Have in back pocket for when the time comes.
Id tackle it head on. Speaking from experience

This is great advice. For when a situation where an investigation might arise, having a diary next to your desk is good, an example again of a sort of note that can be jotted down..

Mon 11/11

14.10

Xxxx approached me again * describe situation and what is said both ways as verbatim as possible *

Mrs OBumble

TheW1zard wrote: »

Start a **** list. Log any interactions. Have in back pocket for when the time comes.
Id tackle it head on. Speaking from experience

The OP has already told us they are not on speaking terms, so I don't think there will be many interactions!

The OP is also declining to use the formal process to resolve this, and is asking us if they can ask their manager a simple question. So I'm guessing they are as passive-aggressive as the so-called bully.

rock22

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

...The OP is also declining to use the formal process to resolve this, and is asking us if they can ask their manager a simple question. So I'm guessing they are as passive-aggressive as the so-called bully.

How do you jump to that conclusion? It is neither accurate nor likely to be helpful to the OP.

OP, there is nothing stopping you approaching your manager and asking for a transfer, if that is what you want.
However, as there is no formal complaint, they may feel they have no reason to comply with your request.

high_king

rock22 wrote: »

How do you jump to that conclusion? It is neither accurate nor likely to be helpful to the OP.

Victim blaming wanna be nazi's love the work problems forum

antix80

Make a formal complaint. It will be cathartic if nothing else and management will take you seriously instead of trying to brush it under the carpet.

crossman47

Lets be honest here. What some people perceive as bullying, their manager may well see as getting them to do their job properly. Have you seen the item about a young journalist in the States who said she was being bullied because her boss corrected her "unique" spelling?

Mrs OBumble

rock22 wrote: »

How do you jump to that conclusion? It is neither accurate nor likely to be helpful to the OP.

Hardly a jump: The OP is moaning about the problem, but won't raise a formal complaint. They are even doubtful about asking the managera simple question.
Classic passive-aggressive behaviour.

high_king

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Hardly a jump: The OP is moaning about the problem, but won't raise a formal complaint. They are even doubtful about asking the managera simple question.
Classic passive-aggressive behaviour.

Utter rubbish. Employees have the choice to go down the formal route or not. Many considerate employees try to make it easier on all parties, including the employer / manager by initially giving them the benefit of the doubt, and trying a non formal, less confrontational and disruptive route. There's nothing wrong with that, and a decent experienced manager will appreciate their discretion. However, the inexperienced / incompetent / scumbag managers have usually no appreciation or understanding of that, and the full hard on, full force formal route, including engaging a solicitor is the only fitting way to deal with these types.

gozunda

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Hardly a jump: The OP is moaning about the problem, but won't raise a formal complaint. They are even doubtful about asking the managera simple question. Classic passive-aggressive behaviour.

Thats hardly helpful tbh. In way too many organisations raising a formal complaint achieves less than anything positive - too often because of crap HR policies. The OP is seeking to find a workable solution. It's not rocket science.

mvl

gozunda wrote: »

Thats hardly helpful tbh. In way too many organisations raising a formal complaint achieves less than anything positive - too often because of crap HR policies. The OP is seeking to find a workable solution. It's not rocket science.

Well, it doesn't sound as simple to me: I find really confusing what was stated in OP: "We are no longer on speaking terms & I know that won't change."
So having looked at Health and Safety Authority guidelines for how to resolve bullying at work, description of what an informal process can mean below (copy from link):
<< The first step in any informal resolution of a complaint should be to get the facts of the complaint, the specific issues complained of, when they occurred and to judge whether or not they fall within the definition of bullying,and thereafter to establish whether or not they are representative of the events complained of.Generally, the employer or the person heading up the organisation is advised not to try personally to informally resolve the complaint but should instead refer the dispute for resolution to another senior manager, or such other person as may be agreed. This is to prevent any bias or perceived bias on the part of the employer,should the issue be referred to him/her at a later stage in the process. In small and micro organisations, where internal structures are limited, if the complaint is made by or against a senior person within the organisation, it may be necessary to use the expertise of an independent professional body to access mediation or conciliation. Such bodies may include the Mediation Services of the Labour Relations Commission.>>

gozunda

mvl wrote: »

Well, it doesn't sound as simple to me: I find really confusing what was stated in OP: "We are no longer on speaking terms & I know that won't change."
So having looked at Health and Safety Authority guidelines for how to resolve bullying at work, description of what an informal process can mean below (copy from link):
<< The first step in any informal resolution of a complaint should be to get the facts of the complaint, the specific issues complained of, when they occurred and to judge whether or not they fall within the definition of bullying,and thereafter to establish whether or not they are representative of the events complained of.Generally, the employer or the person heading up the organisation is advised not to try personally to informally resolve the complaint but should instead refer the dispute for resolution to another senior manager, or such other person as may be agreed. This is to prevent any bias or perceived bias on the part of the employer,should the issue be referred to him/her at a later stage in the process. In small and micro organisations, where internal structures are limited, if the complaint is made by or against a senior person within the organisation, it may be necessary to use the expertise of an independent professional body to access mediation or conciliation. Such bodies may include the Mediation Services of the Labour Relations Commission.>>

The wife has worked in this area and is under no illusion that many companies only pay lip service to the Health and Safety Authority guidelines on how to resolve bullying at work and it's often about as much use as chocolate teapot.

high_king

gozunda wrote: »

The theory as you've copied there is dandy. Unfortunately most companies only pay lip service to the Health and Safety Authority guidelines on how to resolve bullying at work and it's often about as much use as chocolate teapot...

Good management will follow similar recommendations and smooth out the situation for all parties . . unfortunately, it's usually due to bad management the situation arose in the first place, and that type of management is unlikely to follow good practice or treat all parties equally, so a bad situation usually becomes worse.

Mrs OBumble

high_king wrote: »

Utter rubbish. Employees have the choice to go down the formal route or not. Many considerate employees try to make it easier on all parties, including the employer / manager by initially giving them the benefit of the doubt, and trying a non formal, less confrontational and disruptive route. There's nothing wrong with that, and a decent experienced manager will appreciate their discretion. However, the inexperienced / incompetent / scumbag managers have usually no appreciation or understanding of that, and the full hard on, full force formal route, including engaging a solicitor is the only fitting way to deal with these types.

Absolutely.

But the OP tells us that s/he ha ALREADY done this and it didn't work.

Refusing to go down the formal route after the inform route has failed is classic passive-aggressive behaviour.