DPF and EGR valves advise

Curry Addict

I have my first diesel car now only 3 weeks so i have no experience of these modern diesel engines. I am having issues with the DPF in my car and need some advise.


The DPF can be removed and car remapped.
If i got this done will it fail NCT? google tells me its a visual test only. so if the DPF inside is hollowed out....
Does this not get picked up in the NCT emissions test?



while i am asking, i might as well ask the same about the egr valve
it can also be removed and mapped out. Is this legal? Is this checked in the NCT?

George Dalton

Make?
Model?
Year?
Engine?

Whocare

There plenty of companies that will map it out dpf and egr as it stands now it Will pass nct but that could change next month or 10 years time or never no one know

MetzgerMeister

I thought the issue of missing/gutted DPFs was currently an NCT fail? A blanked EGR will cause higher emissions too won't it?

The Bishop Basher

You will pass the NCT with a gutted DPF no problem.

Also with a blanked EGR.

As said above, this may change at some point but even when it does change it will only be brought in for later models.

zilog_jones

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I thought the issue of missing/gutted DPFs was currently an NCT fail?

Well they can only inspect it from the outside, so it depends whether it's obvious or not.

A blanked EGR will cause higher emissions too won't it?

Disabling the EGR valve will increase NOx levels by orders of magnitude.

NOx emissions are damaging to lungs and are attributed to thousands of deaths in Europe. But no, it's not tested in the NCT. Which one of those is more important is up to you

MetzgerMeister

zilog_jones wrote: »

Well they can only inspect it from the outside, so it depends whether it's obvious or not.

They check it by knocking and listening for a hollow sound as far as I know.

The Bishop Basher

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

They check it by knocking and listening for a hollow sound as far as I know.

They don’t.

NomadicGray

Its not tested for and people have been saying for years they'll be bringing it in, but they havnt.
There are options out there to have your dpf reconditioned though.

But what you do next depends on how you're driving the thing.

Curry Addict

George Dalton wrote: »

Make?
Model?
Year?
Engine?

sorry didnt think it was important.


Make? BMW
Model? E60
Year? November 2009
Engine? N47

Lewis_Benson

1. What problems are occurring?
2. Why gut the DPF? You can have them cleaned.

Curry Addict

thanks for all the info. its nice and clear and will help me make decisions. I have had the DPF removed and cleaned in preference to delete but it hasn't sorted my problem of high exhaust back pressure hence why i want to establish my options.

yesterday i had jerky motion in the low gears followed shortly by loss of turbo power. This morning the turbo not kicking in, followed by the small thin exhaust tube to the Map sensor blowing off due to excess exhaust pressure.

I had the exact same symptoms 2 weeks ago. Brought the car to a garage who determined the DPF was blocked. So it was removed, cleaned and reinstalled. Unfortunately my problem has now returned. So i brought the car back to the garage this morning. Waiting now to hear my options.

Anyone experience similar?

Lewis_Benson

Nothing to do with the DPF I would think, something else amiss there.

bazz26

Bring it to a BMW specialist. It sounds like the garage you brought it to are just guessing imo.

Lucifer

The DPF blocking is usually a symptom rather than a cause. It if a filter designed to catch soot. If an engine is not running correctly it can produce too much which can cause the DPF to block.

Other things need to be checked like EGR stuck open, bad injector, burst turbo hose, failed turbo, throttle valve etc etc

Also DPF pressure and temperature sensors need to be checked, if they are not working it can also cause it to not regenerate and clear itself out.

Whocare

Lucifer wrote: »

The DPF blocking is usually a symptom rather than a cause. It if a filter designed to catch soot. If an engine is not running correctly it can produce too much which can cause the DPF to block.

Other things need to be checked like EGR stuck open, bad injector, burst turbo hose, failed turbo, throttle valve etc etc

Also DPF pressure and temperature sensors need to be checked, if they are not working it can also cause it to not regenerate and clear itself out.

But isn't that the problem with dpf let face when diesel car get old high mileage they all smoke at bit .but now with dpf there getting blocked before you just keep driving bit of black smoke made no difference

Curry Addict

bazz26 wrote: »

Bring it to a BMW specialist. It sounds like the garage you brought it to are just guessing imo.

what makes you think that, what is your comment based on? i expect they had read codes, troubleshooted the issue and found the DPF was substantially blocked. Its fairly simple technology so why would a BMW specialist be needed?

The car has 112,000miles on it so the dpf was likely to have needed a proper clean.

Curry Addict

Lucifer wrote: »

The DPF blocking is usually a symptom rather than a cause. It if a filter designed to catch soot. If an engine is not running correctly it can produce too much which can cause the DPF to block.

Other things need to be checked like EGR stuck open, bad injector, burst turbo hose, failed turbo, throttle valve etc etc

Also DPF pressure and temperature sensors need to be checked, if they are not working it can also cause it to not regenerate and clear itself out.

i have to assume they completed these checks as they are relatively simple to perform for a competent mechanic. The car has 112,000miles on it so the dpf was likely to have needed a proper clean.

Lets see what they come back to me with.

Lewis_Benson

Whocare wrote: »

But isn't that the problem with dpf let face when diesel car get old high mileage they all smoke at bit .but now with dpf there getting blocked before you just keep driving bit of black smoke made no difference

What?

bazz26

Curry Addict wrote: »

thanks for all the info. its nice and clear and will help me make decisions. I have had the DPF removed and cleaned in preference to delete but it hasn't sorted my problem of high exhaust back pressure hence why i want to establish my options.

yesterday i had jerky motion in the low gears followed shortly by loss of turbo power. This morning the turbo not kicking in, followed by the small thin exhaust tube to the Map sensor blowing off due to excess exhaust pressure.

I had the exact same symptoms 2 weeks ago. Brought the car to a garage who determined the DPF was blocked. So it was removed, cleaned and reinstalled. Unfortunately my problem has now returned. So i brought the car back to the garage this morning. Waiting now to hear my options.

Anyone experience similar?

Curry Addict wrote: »

what makes you think that, what is your comment based on? i expect they had read codes, troubleshooted the issue and found the DPF was substantially blocked. Its fairly simple technology so why would a BMW specialist be needed?

The car has 112,000miles on it so the dpf was likely to have needed a proper clean.

I'm going by what you said highlighted above. You stated that the garage determined the DPF needed cleaning which they did but the problem came back 2 weeks later. I would not expect a DPF to get blocked again 2 weeks later after being cleaned out.

Also you state you expect the codes were read, that's not the same as knowing for sure. It's very possible that the garage has generic diagnostic software that may not be able to read or misdiagnose BMW specific fault codes, hence the suggestion of bringing it to a BMW specialist who would be more familiar with these cars. I also don't get the comment about the technology being fairly simple, given the issue is back it would seem it's not so simple as it hasn't been fixed yet. At some stage you may have to decide what to do if the current garage cannot fix the issue.

CoBo55

Lucifer wrote: »

The DPF blocking is usually a symptom rather than a cause. It if a filter designed to catch soot. If an engine is not running correctly it can produce too much which can cause the DPF to block.

Other things need to be checked like EGR stuck open, bad injector, burst turbo hose, failed turbo, throttle valve etc etc

Also DPF pressure and temperature sensors need to be checked, if they are not working it can also cause it to not regenerate and clear itself out.

Please read and heed this post it's spot on.

Curry Addict

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm going by what you said highlighted above. You stated that the garage determined the DPF needed cleaning which they did but the problem came back 2 weeks later. I would not expect a DPF to get blocked again 2 weeks later after being cleaned out.

Also you state you expect the codes were read, that's not the same as knowing for sure. It's very possible that the garage has generic diagnostic software that may not be able to read or misdiagnose BMW specific fault codes, hence the suggestion of bringing it to a BMW specialist who would be more familiar with these cars. I also don't get the comment about the technology being fairly simple, given the issue is back it would seem it's not so simple as it hasn't been fixed yet. At some stage you may have to decide what to do if the current garage cannot fix the issue.

I have faith, its a super busy garage with a good rep. I dive past regularly and always some BMWs lined up outside. These cars are so common this garage is working on them daily. BMW diagnostic software is available free on the net.



Granted, they did not nail it first time but its highly likely the dpf would stand out as a problem at this mileage and well due a proper clean. So i can forgive the misdiagnosis.



I just got the car back. They found the exhaust sensor was faulty so replaced it and did a regen. Its running great again so fingers crossed it wont come back. The charge was minimal so i respect the integrity.



Its entirely possible you could be right and they are incompetent but lets give them the benefit of the doubt first

Curry Addict

CoBo55 wrote: »

Please read and heed this post it's spot on.

yes agreed he is spot on. The DPF had 112,000miles on it and AFAIK they are designed to last 120,000 so its understandable it stood out as an issue and cleaning it a good call. I expect they checked the named items but if the dpf is in **** it needed to be addressed. Its subjective without all the info but he is absolutely right



The DPF blocked may have caused the exhaust sensor to fail subsequently. Lets hope its all sorted now.


Thanks everyone for helping me understand. I ordered a cable to hook up my laptop with INPA so i can get a much better overview of whats going on.

CoBo55

Curry Addict wrote: »

yes agreed he is spot on. The DPF had 112,000miles on it and AFAIK they are designed to last 120,000 so its understandable it stood out as an issue and cleaning it a good call. I expect they checked the named items but if the dpf is in **** it needed to be addressed. Its subjective without all the info but he is absolutely right



The DPF blocked may have caused the exhaust sensor to fail subsequently. Lets hope its all sorted now.


Thanks everyone for helping me understand. I ordered a cable to hook up my laptop with INPA so i can get a much better overview of whats going on.

I'd say it was the other way around, the faulty pressure sensor wasn't letting regen take place, hopefully you're sorted now.

Curry Addict

CoBo55 wrote: »

I'd say it was the other way around, the faulty pressure sensor wasn't letting regen take place, hopefully you're sorted now.

that does make more sense i agree

bazz26

Curry Addict wrote: »

I have faith, its a super busy garage with a good rep. I dive past regularly and always some BMWs lined up outside. These cars are so common this garage is working on them daily. BMW diagnostic software is available free on the net.



Granted, they did not nail it first time but its highly likely the dpf would stand out as a problem at this mileage and well due a proper clean. So i can forgive the misdiagnosis.



I just got the car back. They found the exhaust sensor was faulty so replaced it and did a regen. Its running great again so fingers crossed it wont come back. The charge was minimal so i respect the integrity.



Its entirely possible you could be right and they are incompetent but lets give them the benefit of the doubt first

I'm not dissing the garage in question, it's never easy diagnosing a problem and can take a few attempts. I'm just pointing out that sometimes the best and cheapest route in the long term is by going to specialists who know the cars inside out and see these problems all the time. Unfortunately there are chancers out there who will just guess at the customers expense.

As for the free or cheap BMW software being available on the net, I've played around with the likes of Carly but I'm a pure amateur, even so it really is a case of you get what you pay for. Specialists really wouldn't be spending big money on licensed software and tools if they could get them free off the internet.

Anyway hopefully it's sorted now, fingers crossed and good luck.

zilog_jones

bazz26 wrote: »

As for the free or cheap BMW software being available on the net, I've played around with the likes of Carly but I'm a pure amateur, even so it really is a case of you get what you pay for. Specialists really wouldn't be spending big money on licensed software and tools if they could get them free off the internet.

Yes, specialists that are running legitimate business wouldn't be using pirated software. The OP's talking about INPA, that's BMW's own diagnostics software, it shouldn't normally be free