Pension and job sharing

pandoraj09

Looking for some advice please. I've 29 years full time service done in my school and a year elsewhere from when I started teaching. I'm worn out and burnt out. I'm fed up with teaching and all the extra stuff we now have to do etc etc. I'm looking to retire on the 33/55 basis. My question is if I job share for the next 3/4 years, are those years counted as 4 years service? I know for pension purposes they will be half years but will the Dept count them as "full" years going towards my 33 years of service? Apologies if I'm not explaining it correctly. Hopefully someone will know what I'm trying to ask. I'm getting professional advice next week but just thought someone here might know. Many thanks for any input. I Can't see the answer on the ASTI website.

the14thwarrior

I have no clue but i always thought when you retire, the money you get is the money you have contributed to your pension for the years you have been working.
since you have not been working that long, I think the word "retire" is not the right word you are looking for.

and if you are burned out at 29..... from teaching.... god bless us all

pandoraj09

and if you are burned out at 29..... from teaching.... god bless us all

Its comments like this that remind me why i don't post on this more often! I'm not 29. I'm 55. I've been teaching for 30 years. I'm looking for some advice about retiring not unhelpful remarks from posters who didn't even read my post properly.

dingding

OP, Just some general comments regarding a public sector pension.

Your final pensionable salary is based on your service in your case assuming each year was a full year 29/80ths if you were to retire at 60.

If you work 4 years at 50% of your hours this would count as 2 years service then you would have 31/80

Also if you retire and do other work for the public secctor then your pension will be deducted from your salary, it is not really worth working in the public sector after you retire.

The other point to factor in is that your salary is acturally reduced by very approx 5% for every year under 60. So if you were to retire at say 55 with 29 years, a very rough calculation would be your pension would be 29/80ths less approx 25% for the acturial reduction. Unless you retire on ill helath grounds where you can get up to 7 (I think) added years and no acturial reduction, there is a big hit going before 60.

However if you look at your salary after 60. You are paying the various pension deductions, possibly union dues etc.... The hit may not ne that much. In my case I am working for less than 25% of my salary once I reach 60 when deductions, the cost of working (comuting, parking, foor etc..) are taken into account. I would consider the years between 60 and 65 the years that you are still healthy etc.. and have the lump sum which in my case will clear the mortgage and have a few bob for traveling etc... The big advantage also is that you can travel off peak and mid week, a further saving.


There are a lot of factors to consider. I hope you found this helpful and there are others here more conversant with the teaching schemes specifically.

ALso if you had AVC's at any point this is someting else to consider. There is also something called a last minute AVC which allows you to inrease the tax efficiency of any lump sums on retirement


From the pension authority website glossery of terms
2. The term "abatement" is also used to describe a reduction in the pension of a public servant who becomes re-employed in the public service after his/her pension has commenced - he/she cannot receive more than the equivalent of a full-time salary from both sources combined.

https://www.pensionsauthority.ie/en/LifeCycle/Glossary/?index=A

This would also cover interviewing, correcting, board payments wtc.... And I think you would be re-employed at the entry point which would be not much more than your pension.

the14thwarrior

apologies i didn't read the post properly. !!!
after 29 years teaching you would be burnt out.
i have no further comment cos i don't know anything about the benefits but be sure to get good info so you don't get screwed from missing a year or two

dingding

OP to calculate your net pay I find this good as there is an explicit category for public servant.

https://taxcalc.ie/budget-2019/

You know what your take home pay is now and it should match the calculator, then run it with your expected retirement salary but not as a public sector this will reduce all the pension levys etc.

The hit might not be as much as you think.

Millem

pandoraj09 wrote: »

Looking for some advice please. I've 29 years full time service done in my school and a year elsewhere from when I started teaching. I'm worn out and burnt out. I'm fed up with teaching and all the extra stuff we now have to do etc etc. I'm looking to retire on the 33/55 basis. My question is if I job share for the next 3/4 years, are those years counted as 4 years service? I know for pension purposes they will be half years but will the Dept count them as "full" years going towards my 33 years of service? Apologies if I'm not explaining it correctly. Hopefully someone will know what I'm trying to ask. I'm getting professional advice next week but just thought someone here might know. Many thanks for any input. I Can't see the answer on the ASTI website.

From my understanding a year job sharing counts as half a year worked for your pension. You also only get half the sick leave entitlements so 46 days at full pay (full pay of job sharing wage) and 45 days at half pay (half of your job sharing wage).
It acts as a full year for increments though.

If you can go in 4 years I think I would just try and keep going.....6 more Mondays and all that!!

dingding

Millem wrote: »

From my understanding a year job sharing counts as half a year worked for your pension. You also only get half the sick leave entitlements so 46 days at full pay (full pay of job sharing wage) and 45 days at half pay (half of your job sharing wage).
It acts as a full year for increments though.

If you can go in 4 years I think I would just try and keep going.....6 more Mondays and all that!!

Good advice, you are really taking a hit to go before 60 and not working for much net after 60

rainbowtrout

The first option is that you stay on for another 3 years to go on the 33/55 rule. If you go on job share it will only count for half a year of service for each calendar year.

Could you do another 6 years on half hours?

Another option available to you is Cost Neutral Early Retirement.

https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Retirement-Pensions/Teaching-Staff/Cost-Neutral-Early-Retirement/

https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Circular_18_2017_CNER.pdf

https://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/finance/2005/10.pdf

It allows a person to retire from the age of 50 onwards (55 for new entrants) from the civil/public service without having hit the magic number for automatic retirement and you get a pension immediately but the pension is reduced on a sliding scale. i.e. if you go at 50 you will be getting a pension for far longer so it would be reduced a lot more.

https://www.tui.ie/_fileupload/When%20should%20I%20retire.pdf


Point 3 on the TUI Circular above is what you are looking for. As you started teaching pre-95 you are entitled to retire at 60. You can avail of CNER any time from 50 onwards. According to the scale you would get 77.8% of the pension due to you now if you retire at 55 and 90.7% of the lump sum. If you finish out this academic year and retire next August (presuming you have another birthday by then, then the percentages rise to 81.6% and 92.4% respectively.

If you work out what your pension is currently worth and get 77% of it, can you afford to live on that? Obviously if you are going to get professional advic e next week they can do the detailed calculations.

My back of an envelope calculations are as follows:

Making the following assumptions;

Point 25 on pay scale 64302
Hons Dip 1236
Hons Degree 4918

Total salary 70456

You haven't mentioned having a post so I didn't include one. Adjust as necessary

Pension calculation:

70456 x 30/80 = 26421 if you were allowed retire right now with 30 years service

26421 x 3 = Lump sum 79263


Reduce pension to 77.8% for CNER = 26421 x 77.8% = 20,555

Reduce lump sum to 90.4% for CNER = 79263 x 90.4% = 71,653


Figures might be a little bit out, but probably not that far off. Can you live on 20k a year? Do you have another source of income? Do you have husband/wife so a second income is coming in? Are you considering getting another job (not in teaching to supplement pension).


All things to consider if you want to go now.

Millem

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The first option is that you stay on for another 3 years to go on the 33/55 rule. If you go on job share it will only count for half a year of service for each calendar year.

Could you do another 6 years on half hours?

Another option available to you is Cost Neutral Early Retirement.

https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Retirement-Pensions/Teaching-Staff/Cost-Neutral-Early-Retirement/

https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Circular_18_2017_CNER.pdf

https://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/finance/2005/10.pdf

It allows a person to retire from the age of 50 onwards (55 for new entrants) from the civil/public service without having hit the magic number for automatic retirement and you get a pension immediately but the pension is reduced on a sliding scale. i.e. if you go at 50 you will be getting a pension for far longer so it would be reduced a lot more.

https://www.tui.ie/_fileupload/When%20should%20I%20retire.pdf


Point 3 on the TUI Circular above is what you are looking for. As you started teaching pre-95 you are entitled to retire at 60. You can avail of CNER any time from 50 onwards. According to the scale you would get 77.8% of the pension due to you now if you retire at 55 and 90.7% of the lump sum. If you finish out this academic year and retire next August (presuming you have another birthday by then, then the percentages rise to 81.6% and 92.4% respectively.

If you work out what your pension is currently worth and get 77% of it, can you afford to live on that? Obviously if you are going to get professional advic e next week they can do the detailed calculations.

My back of an envelope calculations are as follows:

Making the following assumptions;

Point 25 on pay scale 64302
Hons Dip 1236
Hons Degree 4918

Total salary 70456

You haven't mentioned having a post so I didn't include one. Adjust as necessary

Pension calculation:

70456 x 30/80 = 26421 if you were allowed retire right now with 30 years service

26421 x 3 = Lump sum 79263


Reduce pension to 77.8% for CNER = 26421 x 77.8% = 20,555

Reduce lump sum to 90.4% for CNER = 79263 x 90.4% = 71,653


Figures might be a little bit out, but probably not that far off. Can you live on 20k a year? Do you have another source of income? Do you have husband/wife so a second income is coming in? Are you considering getting another job (not in teaching to supplement pension).


All things to consider if you want to go now.

Would the OP be entitled to the supplementary pension?

dingding

https://www.zurich.ie/pensions-retirement/faqs/how-many-prsi-contributions-do-i-need-for-pension/

This is harder to get, essentially the OP will need to pay PRSI before they reach 56 and pay them for 10 years. There are various ways of getting PRSI credits, details in the link above. It used to be easier years ago but it has got a lot harder.

rainbowtrout

Millem wrote: »

Would the OP be entitled to the supplementary pension?

The OP is pre-95 so pays D rate PRSI. Not entirely sure how the supplementary pension works in that case, but she doesn't have the years done yet to get her pension, so her options are work longer (3 years full time, or 6 years on job share) if she wants to get to 33 years, or go down the CNER route.

Of course there is also Notional Service Purchase, which would be expensive to buy back three years at this age of the OP's career, and I presume if the OP had a huge chunk of money to throw at NSP, it would have been mentioned already.

spurious

Real world figures.
I went Cost neutral at the end of 2013. Just short of 28 years service by the time you added bits and pieces and took away others. Finished up as Assistant Principal.
16 k pension.
I supplement it with exam work and an AirBnB room. We manage. I was lucky the house was paid off and I have no dependants.

I wouldn't go back if they paid me twice what I had been making. Only so much abuse one person can take. I don't know how my colleagues in similar schools stick it.

acequion

OP, I'm in the same boat. I need to do 3 or 4 more years but like you I'm quite worn out and burnt out so it's not looking like I'll manage 4. Like you, I've considered the job sharing as I'm not really ready to retire from the workforce and a lighter pace might do the trick. But as someone else on this thread pointed out, with so few years to do it's probably best to get them over with. I'll not get out with the full whack of years as I went in late, nor do I have a post to boost the pay, but I am buying back 10 years notional service and doing AVCs.

My advice to you is to get all the advice out there before you make a decision. We could [hopefully] live many, many years after retirement so the key is to make the best preparation we can.

celbridge74

The DES Pension booklet states that for the purpose of the 55/35 rule 'a job-sharing year may be counted as a full year'. It won't give you credit for a full year in the amount received but won't delay your retirement.

https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Retirement-Pensions/FAQ-for-Teachers-in-Primary-Schools.pdf

Best of luck!

Icsics

acequion wrote: »

OP, I'm in the same boat. I need to do 3 or 4 more years but like you I'm quite worn out and burnt out so it's not looking like I'll manage 4. Like you, I've considered the job sharing as I'm not really ready to retire from the workforce and a lighter pace might do the trick. But as someone else on this thread pointed out, with so few years to do it's probably best to get them over with. I'll not get out with the full whack of years as I went in late, nor do I have a post to boost the pay, but I am buying back 10 years notional service and doing AVCs.

My advice to you is to get all the advice out there before you make a decision. We could [hopefully] live many, many years after retirement so the key is to make the best preparation we can.

Can I ask you Acequion how to go about buying notional service?

acequion

Icsics wrote: »

Can I ask you Acequion how to go about buying notional service?

As you're buying back directly from the Dept they're the ones to guide through the whole thing. So ring the Dept, tell them you want advice on notional service, whether you're primary or secondary and they'll transfer you to whoever you need to talk to.

Now I did all mine 10 years ago and I really don't know if the process is still the same. But I found the people I was talking to extremely helpful and patient. They will send you out the form which you may need help with. I got an accountant friend to help me. It does take time to work out how many years you can afford to buy back and the exact cost etc. I opted to buy 10 but not sure if they still allow buying so many. It is expensive but remember that you get back nearly half in tax relief and like all bills you just budget for it and get used to it. I opted to pay my 10 years between the ages of 50-65 and I regret that I didn't do it from 50-60, though more expensive. But as it's a contract you can't go back and change it, unlike AVCs.

But deffo worth looking into and I'm really glad I'm doing it.

Icsics

Thanks Acequion, something I need to look into