Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy railway

Deedsie

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IE 222

Deedsie wrote: »

I have no affiliation to the North Tipperary Rail Partnership. I found the below and thought some here might find it interesting.

Submission made by North Tipperary Community Rail Partnership to the Tipperary draft development plan on the 16th of November 2020

The NTCRP ask that you look at the following recommendations from our Partnership. These are well researched, specific and succinct.

Specific recommendations re the Limerick- Ballybrophy line:

Short Term (by May 2021)

• To revise the existing journey time to reduce journey times by getting line speeds reviewed by the district engineer, Andrew Wilson; bringing it down to a consistent 1 hr 50 minutes. This would reflect the current investment in CWR (Continuous Welded Rail) and other improvements on the line. • To review all existing speed restrictions to increase the line’s overall line speed to 60 mph (not 50 mph) • To review the existing timetable to reflect shorter journey times and ◦ Bring forward the 1005 Ballybrophy - Limerick to 0905 ◦ Defer the departure of the 1655 to at least 1705/10 (taking into account the shorter journey time) • Introduce a middle of the day return service from Limerick to Ballybrophy • To align Limerick-Ballybrophy services to connect with Limerick-Limerick Junction service, opening up more journey possibilities via Limerick to Dublin and Cork • The reintroduction of a later-evening Nenagh commuter service  • The appointment of a dedicated regional rail manger, with responsibility for the delivery of upgrades on the line.


Medium Term (by December 2023)

• Complete the full re-lay of the line with CWR • The automation and re-controlling of all 11 manually operated crossing to Mallow signalling centre  • A rolling programme to be funded to reduce the amount of user-worked crossings on the line and allow line speeds to be increased   • The provision of modern electronic signalling to replace the existing semaphore signalling on the line • The provision of a passing loop at Nenagh to allow the introduction of a 2 hourly service on the line. • The provision of an Annacotty Park and Ride Station, in conjunction with the proposed M7 Park and Ride by the Newport round about. • A journey time of 1 hr 40 minutes • Introduction of smart ticketing and live passenger information • The co-ordination of local link bus services with rail services.

Long Term (post-2023)

• Introduction of a two-hourly service with an hourly peak service to Nenagh • Continual upgrade of line speeds to deliver a minimum 1hr 30 min journey time  • Re-signalling of Ballybrophy to allow the operation of direct passenger services from the branch to the main line

Finally, the NTRCP ask that a specific plan for an enhanced and improved public transport infrastructure re our regional railways be addressed within the final current draft of the Tipperary County Development Plan 2022- 2028 as a distinct topic, with a particular emphasis on outlining the role of rail and our regional lines as a potential key solution to future county transport needs - and we ask that it addresses the North Tipperary Limerick- Ballybrophy line in particular, in substantial terms, in the final draft. 

Regards, 
On behalf of the North Tipperary Community Rail Partnership

A P&R wouldn't be much use to anyone with only 4 trains eachway. Even beyond their 2023 scope an hourly peak service isn't going to attract many in. Surely any P&R would be better suited to a location on the Ballysimon Rd (N24) & M7 junction. This allows a greater number of trains to serve such a station.

If 16:55 isn't suitable for commuters I can't see 17:05 been any better.

What added benefit does advancing the return morning service to 9.05am bring.

I think the line should striving to move away from connections rather than trying to introduce more by linking up with the Jct services. The line is already ran on a connection based service rather a than local and direct service.

Deedsie

IE 222 wrote: »

A P&R wouldn't be much use to anyone with out 4 trains eachway. Even beyond their 2023 scope an hourly peak service isn't going to attract many in. Surely any P&R would be better suited to a location on the Ballysimon Rd (N24) & M7 junction. This allows a greater number of trains to serve such a station.

If 16:55 isn't suitable for commuters I can't see 17:05 been any better.

What added benefit does advancing the return morning service to 9.05am bring.

I think the line should striving to move away from connections rather than trying to introduce more by linking up with the Jct services. The line is already ran on a connection based service rather a than local and direct service.

In my view the longer term goals should not be rigid at this point.

If the short term and medium term goals are implemented the new passengers using the service will be able give an indication of what the longer term goals should be after using the service for a period of time.

What would work best for the communities along the line, for the midwest region and for the national network? Etc

Deedsie

Been thinking about ways to advertise the service a bit more. It might sound small fry but there is no sign outside the train station in Nenagh.

There is a fairly battered orange Iarnrod Éireann sign.

Maybe a large sign at the main entrances of the stations along the line. Nenagh Train Station, Cloughjordan Train Station . It might give the local communities a sense of ownership of the line. Might appreciate it a bit more.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

It's the same on the poorly serviced Waterford-Lmk Junc line.

Stations are in a state of neglect, little to no signage. You get the sense they are 'disconnected' from the towns and villages they serve, as such.

A damn shame.

Deedsie

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

It's the same on the poorly serviced Waterford-Lmk Junc line.

Stations are in a state of neglect, little to no signage. You get the sense they are 'disconnected' from the towns and villages they serve, as such.

A damn shame.

Drove by the Nenagh Train Station earlier. Only people it serves at the moment is boy racers.

Economics101

A relevant true story from the Waterford-Limerick Junction line. Friend of mine was staying at a hotel in Clonmel (a colleague had driven him there). He wanted to return to Dublin by train and asked the receptionist about train times to Dublin and the location of the station. Receprionist was unaware there was any train service at Clonmel but had information about the buses ok.

Del.Monte

Economics101 wrote: »

A relevant true story from the Waterford-Limerick Junction line. Friend of mine was staying at a hotel in Clonmel (a colleague had driven him there). He wanted to return to Dublin by train and asked the receptionist about train times to Dublin and the location of the station. Receprionist was unaware there was any train service at Clonmel but had information about the buses ok.

Par for the course, here in Enniscorthy the hotels, tourist office etc. all have timetable leaflets for Bus Eireann and Wexford Bus - nothing for the railway. When you do find the station there are usually no timetables there either but a handy pile of cards for the Samaritans - the irony is lost on CIE management. Nothing will ever change at a company which has been the play thing of engineers for decades rather than driven by its Traffic Dept.

Deedsie

Received the following response from Senator Pippa Hackett. Not hugely encouraging.

Further to your email, I was in contact with the Department of Transport, who advised as follows;

 

Regarding the line speed review, Iarnród Éireann has explained that the number of level crossings on this line prevents any increases in speeds. NTA representatives attended a meeting of Nenagh Municipal District on 18 February, at which representatives of North Tipperary Community Rail Partnership (NTCRP) presented the case for improved infrastructure and additional services for the Ballybrophy rail line. While the NTCRP requested that the Ballybrophy line be included in Iarnród Éireann’s submission to the Limerick Shannon Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy, Iarnród Éireann has stated that the LSMATS is a plan to review existing services and that its scope does not extend to Nenagh. Iarnród Éireann (IÉ) held a meeting with the NTCRP on March 9 in relation to the Ballybrophy line. IÉ stated that its priority at this time was the restoration of services to pre-COVID-19 levels. Iarnród Éireann has also advised the Department of Transport in relation to the planned temporary closure of the Ballybrophy line that it will complete four additional miles of relaying over an eight-week period and will then hand back the track for services on June 14th, as opposed to the previous proposed date of July 18. The company is also proposing a shorter shutdown in week 26 to relocate the turnout and traps in Roscrea and to move the signal. While IÉ intends to conduct a survey of passengers before implementing any further changes to services, it is discussing changing the morning connection from the 9am Dublin-Cork service to the 8am service on that route.

 

I trust this addresses the issues raised in your email and I thank you again for contacting Senator Hackett.

Best wishes,

Rosie Palmer

 

Secretarial Assistant to Senator Pippa Hackett, Minister of State for Land Use and Biodiversity

Green Party | Comhaontas Glas 

IE 222

Deedsie wrote: »

In my view the longer term goals should not be rigid at this point.

If the short term and medium term goals are implemented the new passengers using the service will be able give an indication of what the longer term goals should be after using the service for a period of time.

What would work best for the communities along the line, for the midwest region and for the national network? Etc

Examples I've given are all short to mid term goals. Flexing current timetables and adding stations should be in the long term. Adding more connections is only add more restrictions on flexibility of local service as they'll need to meet the connections.

Deedsie

IE 222 wrote: »

Examples I've given are all short to mid term goals. Flexing current timetables and adding stations should be in the long term. Adding more connections is only add more restrictions on flexibility of local service as they'll need to meet the connections.

Ya I can see your point. It is hard to know really what the right approach would be.

I have pretty much driven the length of the line over the last few weeks at this stage. From Birdhill to Borris in Ossory.

A few things ive observed from the road.

The setting of the line runs through some absolutely beautiful countryside.

Planning in Ireland has a shamefully poor record.

The amount of agricultural crossings and little bye roads on a section of the national rail network in 2021 is absolutely ridiculous. The railway engineers from the 1850's did a fine job on this line. Its a shame it was let go the way it has.

The stations along the line have very little signage.

I took a good few pics that I doubt many people are interested in but I will put them up over the weekend.

Deedsie

Hope I am not stepping on The_Wanderers toes...

I Took a picture of this machine just North East of Ballygibbon bridge. I think its a ballast machine. Looked very impressive watching it operate

Deedsie

Deedsie wrote: »

Images taken today from Middlewalk-Glenahilty bridge. Dont know the local name for this bridge but the townlands either side of the bridge are Middlewalk and Glenahilty.

I took follow up photos here today. Not much has changed since last weekend.

Previous post:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117358801&postcount=425

Deedsie

Deedsie wrote: »

Images taken today from Kylenaheskeragh Bridge. Seem to be preparing for a bit of activity here. Lots of rails stacked and some machinery in a large yard/open area just beside the track as can be seen in the images.

The track along here seems to be the old jointed track with the wooden sleepers. Someone else might confirm.

Just an update South West from Kylenheskeragh towards Nenagh. The image quality of the pictures I put up last week made it difficult to see but I zoomed in a bit this week so you might be able see where the CWR relay works are stopping. Maybe 100 metres from the bridge.

You can see Sliabh Ciamalta (Keeper Hill) standing proud in the background. Picture doesnt do it justice.

Original post 426

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=117358924&postcount=426

IE 222

Deedsie wrote: »

Ya I can see your point. It is hard to know really what the right approach would be.

I have pretty much driven the length of the line over the last few weeks at this stage. From Birdhill to Borris in Ossory.

A few things ive observed from the road.

The setting of the line runs through some absolutely beautiful countryside.

Planning in Ireland has a shamefully poor record.

The amount of agricultural crossings and little bye roads on a section of the national rail network in 2021 is absolutely ridiculous. The railway engineers from the 1850's did a fine job on this line. Its a shame it was let go the way it has.

The stations along the line have very little signage.

I took a good few pics that I doubt many people are interested in but I will put them up over the weekend.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the farm crossings. These are usually well sighted and the level of risk is extremely low. As farmers are usually the only user of such crossings it's a lot easier for IE to manage and keep these in line. Keeping gates shut is also within the interests of farmers with livestock. There is many examples of farm crossings along rail lines with much higher line speeds. The Westport line has 10-15 crossings in a relatively short section just outside Athlone with a line speed of 70mph. There is also plenty of private user crossings along the line again they pose little risk and aren't worth the financial cost of upgrading.

Deedsie

IE 222 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too concerned about the farm crossings. These are usually well sighted and the level of risk is extremely low. As farmers are usually the only user of such crossings it's a lot easier for IE to manage and keep these in line. Keeping gates shut is also within the interests of farmers with livestock. There is many examples of farm crossings along rail lines with much higher line speeds. The Westport line has 10-15 crossings in a relatively short section just outside Athlone with a line speed of 70mph. There is also plenty of private user crossings along the line again they pose little risk and aren't worth the financial cost of upgrading.

That makes sense. Surely no farmer would be wreckless enough with those accomodation crossings in case Irish rail got fed up with the gates being repeatedly left open and decided to remove the access from that farmer. Dont know if they have rights of way or what the story is. There are a lot of them though along the line.

What I think would be a useful exercise would be to identify the problem crossings of which I am sure there are many. The user operated crossings, the manual operated crossings, crossings with particularly poor sightlines etc etc

Irish rail seem to be moving the goal posts a lot here in relation to speed restrictions. For years the issue according the Irish rail was the condition of the track. The line has now been upgraded to CWR for most of the line between Birdhill and Cloughjordan stations. (Cappadine to Kylenheskeragh)

The line is straight as a dart for most of that section. Surely if vegetation is controlled and sightlines are improved the speed limits on that section should be vastly increased?

If Irish rail continue to shift the goal posts it very much looks like their only goal is to repress this line and not give it a chance to be a relatively successful commuter service.

The condition of the track from (Kylenaheskeragh) South West of Cloughjordan to Roscrea does look very outdated now. That section needs to be relayed. Ill start uploading the pics today.

IE 222

Deedsie wrote: »

That makes sense. Surely no farmer would be wreckless enough with those accomodation crossings in case Irish rail got fed up with the gates being repeatedly left open and decided to remove the access from that farmer. Dont know if they have rights of way or what the story is. There are a lot of them though along the line.

What I think would be a useful exercise would be to identify the problem crossings of which I am sure there are many. The user operated crossings, the manual operated crossings, crossings with particularly poor sightlines etc etc

Irish rail seem to be moving the goal posts a lot here in relation to speed restrictions. For years the issue according the Irish rail was the condition of the track. The line has now been upgraded to CWR for most of the line between Birdhill and Cloughjordan stations. (Cappadine to Kylenheskeragh)

The line is straight as a dart for most of that section. Surely if vegetation is controlled and sightlines are improved the speed limits on that section should be vastly increased?

If Irish rail continue to shift the goal posts it very much looks like their only goal is to repress this line and not give it a chance to be a relatively successful commuter service.

The condition of the track from (Kylenaheskeragh) South West of Cloughjordan to Roscrea does look very outdated now. That section needs to be relayed. Ill start uploading the pics today.

Its six of one and a half dozen of the other really. Poor track quality was the issue. If the line can't sustain a high speed then there is no point going to the expense of upgrading crossings to accommodate higher track speeds. It's only now they've began upgrading large sections of the line the crossings are becoming the issue.

They should focus on upgrading the manual crossings and simplify and reduce signalling blocks between Birdhill and Ballybrophy. There's only a handful of them and getting line speeds up to 70mph for the best part of that section are well within the realms of reality once the relay is complete.

Deedsie

Townsfields Railway bridge just outside Cloughjordan on the Nenagh side of Cloughjordan Train station.

This is the first bridge after Kylenahasgeragh where the current CWR relay works are ending. The line deteriorates all the way from here to Roscrea. As I have said a few times it is like stepping back in time comparing the new CWR with the older sections.

The quality of the images is not great. I cant upload the original pictures a they are too big. So I have to upload screenshots.

Deedsie

Cloughjordan Railway Station Bridge. Easy to see the train station looking West. Similar to Nenagh, very little signage around the station.

Townfields and Cloughjordanpark are the townlands either side of the bridge.

Deedsie

Islandwood Railway bridge, Co. Tipperary

This is the start of a long rural stretch of track between Cloughjordan and Roscrea that crosses the Tipperary/Offaly border a few times.

All bridge pics to date have been in Co. Tipperary. Next one is in Co. Offaly.

tabbey

IE 222 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too concerned about the farm crossings. These are usually well sighted and the level of risk is extremely low. As farmers are usually the only user of such crossings it's a lot easier for IE to manage and keep these in line. Keeping gates shut is also within the interests of farmers with livestock. There is many examples of farm crossings along rail lines with much higher line speeds. The Westport line has 10-15 crossings in a relatively short section just outside Athlone with a line speed of 70mph. There is also plenty of private user crossings along the line again they pose little risk and aren't worth the financial cost of upgrading.

In fact these farm crossings are abused. Where the farmer has livestock beside a crossing, he keeps the gates closed to protect his assets, not out of a sense of duty. Otherwise many farmers flout the rules.
The Westport line is probably the most notorious line in the country for level crossing accidents, both on main roads, such as at Bellacagher, and the most outrageous abuse by a farmer in 1989.
In the latter incident, 24 September 1989, a farmer living two or three miles east of Claremorris, had the audacity to drive his cattle along the mainline from one crossing to another. It was a Sunday, busy with Knock specials, of which he must have been aware, as they had been running for many decades.
The train of nine Cravens coaches and two generator heating vans, hauled by two locos, was largely derailed when it hit the herd of cattle.
Nobody was killed but among the four or five hundred passengers, there were many injuries and subsequent claims for compensation. The court found the farmer 70% responsible, Irish Rail 30% . Under the law, when one defendant had no money, the other had to pay the full amount. Therefore the company and thus the taxpayer, were obliged to pay for the stupidity of the farmer. In most places, the farmer would have been penalised in some way, but this guy seems to have got away scot free.

Deedsie

Aghnagross - Corraclevin Railway Bridge, Co. Offaly.

Again the townlands either side of the bridge. Very rural area.

Deedsie

Clonlisk Railway Bridge, Co.Offaly

tabbey

Deedsie wrote: »

Clonlisk Railway Bridge, Co.Offaly

On both sides of clonlisk there are a number of crossings, presumably user worked, they are all minor cul de sacs.
As you get nearer the town of Roscrea, there are more bridges, but don't worry, you have done enough.

Deedsie

tabbey wrote: »

On both sides of clonlisk there are a number of crossings, presumably user worked, they are all minor cul de sacs.
As you get nearer the town of Roscrea, there are more bridges, but don't worry, you have done enough.

Oh there are more pics to come. Once I start I have to stay going. There were a few bridges I couldnt get pics of, on the Nenagh side of Birdhill near a campervan business. Ballygibbon bridge and outside Roscrea on the old N7. Too dangerous to pull in.

I accidentally turned down one of the cul de sacs somewhere near Clonlisk. I am unsure if it was manual or user crossing but there seemed to be a prefab cabin beside it. Prob serving a couple of houses. Was opened to the road, rail line was locked.

Deedsie

These are two bridges that are very close together within this townland. These are the last two bridges on the line within Co. Offaly

Bridge 1 is the the bridge to the West closer to Cloughjordan

Bridge 2 is the bridge to the East closer to Roscrea

Deedsie

The line is now back in Co. Tipperary. Quite near the Roscrea rugby club for anyone familiar with the area.

Be curious to hear what people think of the condition of the line here. To me it looks really poor.

Although very straight etc

Del.Monte

Pretty rough looking there and the sleepers look like they are only fit for a garden centre.

Deedsie

The company is also proposing a shorter shutdown in week 26 to relocate the turnout and traps in Roscrea and to move the signal.

Just going back to this. Could anyone explain what this entails? Presume it is being done for a good reason.

Deedsie

Del.Monte wrote: »

Pretty rough looking there and the sleepers look like they are only fit for a garden centre.

A few of the sleepers closer to the bridge are not square against the rail either.

A lot of vegetation shooting up betweem the sleepers too and the verge is starting to encroach in towards the track.

And that sludgey stuff on the right smelled like slurry or something like that.