M18/N18 Ennis to Shannon/Limerick - Numerous RTAs

AlfaZen

There have been a number of crashes on this stretch of the M18 in the last few months (4 alone in the past week). I think it is a combination of road design and driver behavior is causing the issues.

At every junction between J11 Dromoland and Junction 4 Caherdavin there seems to be issues.

J11 - Dromoland: Heavy traffic merging onto motorway. Road is already busy and traffic in left lane has now room to move right. Traffic coming onto motorway has difficult merge. Traffic from Left lane moves right into overtaking lane traveling much slower and causes emergency breaking.

J10 - New Market-on-Fergus: This junction at this time of year facing directly into the rising sun between 8am and 9am. This with volume of traffic make driving difficult.

J9 - Shannon: Traffic leaving Left for Shannon faces long queuing. Sometimes this starts 1-2km before the exit. Some drivers do not enter queue and force merge late. Sometimes they slow drastically or even stop in the left lane trying to merge.

J7 - Sixmilebridge: Traffic merging onto motorway often driving very slow. Forcing those in Left lane to brake hard when unable to move right due to traffic.

J5 - Cratloe: Heavy traffic merging slowly. No room to move right.

J4 - Caherdavin: Known GoSafe van location. Many drivers slam on brakes when the see the van even if they are driving below the limit.

Add to this the drivers with no lights, eating breakfast, doing make-up/hair while driving and unless this stretch is properly policed there is going to be a serious accident.

trellheim

sub in M50 for M18 welcome to the party

Henry Ford III

It's mainly down to poor driving. I travel that stretch very regularly and lane hogging toward Ennis is a regular p.i.t.a.

p.s. I still see plenty of cars on the motorway sporting L plates or the dreaded N/L combination.

Boradriver

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's mainly down to poor driving. I travel that stretch very regularly and lane hogging toward Ennis is a regular p.i.t.a.

p.s. I still see plenty of cars on the motorway sporting L plates or the dreaded N/L combination.

I'd agree with this. Nowhere else in the country have I seen such bad lane manners. People hogging the fast lane, overtaking a slower car, who then speeds up to 140+ because they can't handle being overtaken. Crazy stuff on that road, every day.

Henry Ford III

Boradriver wrote: »

I'd agree with this. Nowhere else in the country have I seen such bad lane manners. People hogging the fast lane, overtaking a slower car, who then speeds up to 140+ because they can't handle being overtaken. Crazy stuff on that road, every day.

The M50 is a lot worse I reckon. Lane discipline is a joke. The M7 heading towards Dublin from Kildare onwards is pretty bad too.

shannonman81

One of the accidents was a drunk driver coming from the airport hot the roundabout too fast and went airborne.
That is just simply down to the driver.
The other incidents I don't know enough about to comment on but there does seem to be an issue.


They recently changed the layout of the drumline "roundabout" and it had made it very confusing and I'm surprised there hasn't been a bad accident there.

HorrorScope

One thing I can't understand about that road is why the M18 doesn't extend to and from the tolls, the road is well capable of being motorway limits the whole way in and out.

coylemj

There was a time when you had to merge into the fast lane on that road, I think if you were coming from Shannon and were joining the road from Ennis to Limerick.

colm_mcm

HorrorScope wrote: »

One thing I can't understand about that road is why the M18 doesn't extend to and from the tolls, the road is well capable of being motorway limits the whole way in and out.

Lots of houses that front onto the road, plus too many exits close together.

Gary Owen

colm_mcm wrote: »

Lots of houses that front onto the road, plus too many exits close together.

And a busy pub .
I was coming in from Ennis earlier and I passed 2 tractors, one of them drawing a trailer .

HorrorScope

Gary Owen wrote: »

And a busy pub .
I was coming in from Ennis earlier and I passed 2 tractors, one of them drawing a trailer .

On the M18? You should have rang the Gardai to report it. I've started doing that when I encounter them on the M7 & M20 now, they shouldn't be on there in the first place and they certainly should not be travelling sub 50kph if they have to use it.

HorrorScope

HorrorScope wrote: »

On the M18? You should have rang the Gardai to report it. I've started doing that when I encounter them on the M7 & M20 now, they shouldn't be on there in the first place and they certainly should not be travelling sub 50kph if they have to use it.

Once the tractor is capable of 50kmh they are perfectly entitled to use the motorway and rightly so. It you can’t see a tractor up ahead with beacons etc and move to the overtaking lane you shouldn’t be on the road in the first place.

It’s a lot easier and safer for a tractor with large/wide loads etc to use the motorway than the narrow alternatives, it’s also a lot faster

HorrorScope

Kaylin Fat Trait wrote: »

Once the tractor is capable of 50kmh they are perfectly entitled to use the motorway and rightly so. It you can’t see a tractor up ahead with beacons etc and move to the overtaking lane you shouldn’t be on the road in the first place.

It’s a lot easier and safer for a tractor with large/wide loads etc to use the motorway than the narrow alternatives, it’s also a lot faster

One of the only countries in Europe that allows that apparently. For all the bleating about road safety here, allowing vehicles only capable of 50kph on to a 120kph road is a disaster waiting to happen. It's not even a case of being able to see them - case in point when you have heavy traffic in left lane that meets slow balls and his trailer, while the right lane is flying by at 120. Que people slamming on the breaks from a speed of 120 just so Joe McSlow**** can drive his tractor. Nonsense and dangerous nonsense at that.

Something for Shane Ross to look at maybe if he ever takes his head out of his arsehole.

Clareman

I travel this road daily and the last few weeks have been terrible, I had an extremely close 1 myself when someone in the outside lane decided to smack on the breaks for no apparant reason.

For me it's an extremely busy road with a lot of busy ramps leading into it and people don't know how to drive on it, most evenings going back into Ennis there will be a line of traffic in the outside lane all going around 100 when there's about half the number of cars on the inside lane.

By the way, the main reason as fair as I know that it's not a motorway the whole way to Limerick is because of the lack of an alternative national route from Shannon to Limerick rather than all the houses on it.

nthclare

There's a really bad sun spot there between Dromoland and Drumline.

From 8:15 onwards all you see is a tailback of red lights, I sometimes just drive through Newmarket on Fergus onto Drumline and come out at minister's cross.

Hail caused a huge collision there a few years ago

martingriff

HorrorScope wrote: »

One thing I can't understand about that road is why the M18 doesn't extend to and from the tolls, the road is well capable of being motorway limits the whole way in and out.

From Shannon cross it cant be classed as a motorway due to houses, the pub and I think the number of roads off it

Edit already explained

AlfaZen

Gary Owen wrote: »

And a busy pub .
I was coming in from Ennis earlier and I passed 2 tractors, one of them drawing a trailer .

Saw a tractor this morning on the road towing a low-loader. I'm not saying he caused this mornings crash but the overtaking lane this morning came to a complete stop at the Dromoland Junction. Tractor was doing no more than 40kph.

AlfaZen

Kaylin Fat Trait wrote: »

Once the tractor is capable of 50kmh they are perfectly entitled to use the motorway and rightly so. It you can’t see a tractor up ahead with beacons etc and move to the overtaking lane you shouldn’t be on the road in the first place.

It’s a lot easier and safer for a tractor with large/wide loads etc to use the motorway than the narrow alternatives, it’s also a lot faster

I 100% disagree with you here. A tractor may be capable of doing 50kph free of a trailer but even at 50kph the speed difference between it and a car doing 120kph means a car will come up on it very quickly. As you know our motorway network is full of bends and dips/hills - you might always have early sight of the tractor. If the slowing car then moves out to overtake it may force others into having to quickly brake.
They should not under any circumstances be on Motorways in my opinion and the law needs to be updated.

AlfaZen

HorrorScope wrote: »

One of the only countries in Europe that allows that apparently. For all the bleating about road safety here, allowing vehicles only capable of 50kph on to a 120kph road is a disaster waiting to happen. It's not even a case of being able to see them - case in point when you have heavy traffic in left lane that meets slow balls and his trailer, while the right lane is flying by at 120. Que people slamming on the breaks from a speed of 120 just so Joe McSlow**** can drive his tractor. Nonsense and dangerous nonsense at that.

Something for Shane Ross to look at maybe if he ever takes his head out of his arsehole.

here, here!!

un5byh7sqpd2x0

shannonman81 wrote: »

They recently changed the layout of the drumline "roundabout" and it had made it very confusing and I'm surprised there hasn't been a bad accident there.

The N18 / N19 junction? Praise the lord that they did, it used to be horrendous coming from Limerick in the mornings... They could do with some of those red pole things to section off the lane for Shannon, there's no need for a Yield at the top of the left lane.

Clareman

AlfaZen wrote: »

I 100% disagree with you here. A tractor may be capable of doing 50kph free of a trailer but even at 50kph the speed difference between it and a car doing 120kph means a car will come up on it very quickly. As you know our motorway network is full of bends and dips/hills - you might always have early sight of the tractor. If the slowing car then moves out to overtake it may force others into having to quickly brake.
They should not under any circumstances be on Motorways in my opinion and the law needs to be updated.

Tractors are normally on the N18, I can't ever recall seeing 1 of the M18

Clareman

Cataleya Straight Rugby wrote: »

The N18 / N19 junction? Praise the lord that they did, it used to be horrendous coming from Limerick in the mornings... They could do with some of those red pole things to section off the lane for Shannon, there's no need for a Yield at the top of the left lane.

I'd be normally going the opposite direction and the tailback on the Limerick side was just waiting for an accident to happen, the small change they made has made a huge difference but now there's a small tailback on the Ennis side but nothing compared to what used to be on the other side.

Cookiemunster

Clareman wrote: »

By the way, the main reason as fair as I know that it's not a motorway the whole way to Limerick is because of the lack of an alternative national route from Shannon to Limerick rather than all the houses on it.

That's incorrect. While an alternative route is needed, private entrances and non grade separated junctions are not allowed on a motorway. The houses at Setrights most definitely would not be allowed on any motorway.

AlfaZen

Clareman wrote: »

Tractors are normally on the N18, I can't ever recall seeing 1 of the M18

There was one on there this morning Clareman. I overtook him just before the M18 becomes the N18.

bazz26

The N18 section from Limerick to Shannon was originally a single lane road that was upgrade to dual carriage way and bypasses in sections since the 1980s. The private entrances and numerous junctions were there on the N18 well before the M18 motorway from Shannon to Ennis and Galway was built to link up with it. It was obviously cheaper at the time to link the M18 to the existing 17km of N18 dual carriage way than plan, buy land and build a new motorway route to run parallel with it. Of course since then the Limerick tunnel and M7 have linked up with it too so having a 17km section of non motorway that realistically cannot be upgrade, joining two motorway corridors is bit of a problem.

air

Access to the 9 houses at Setrights could be easily diverted to the rear and Setrights junction itself closed without major inconvenience to anyone.

I don't think many of the other unnecessary access points along the N stretch would be massively difficult or expensive to eliminate in the grand scheme of things.
Extension of access routes to join existing ones would be all that would be necessary generally.

flazio

Is there an alternative direct route from Shannon to Limerick for vehicles or drivers who cannot or don't want to use a motorway? The R458 runs through towns as far as Bunratty as far as I'm aware but other than that it's just bog roads.

martingriff

air wrote: »

Access to the 9 houses at Setrights could be easily diverted to the rear and Setrights junction itself closed without major inconvenience to anyone.

I don't think many of the other unnecessary access points along the N stretch would be massively difficult or expensive to eliminate in the grand scheme of things.
Extension of access routes to join existing ones would be all that would be necessary generally.

So who will pay for the roads out for the houses around Setrights and if you close that juntion then how do the people of the house get out easily without a detour I also recall other houses on that road and other junctions. It's 100 speed limit it is not a massive drop and yes I do use that road all the time

Gary Owen

flazio wrote: »

Is there an alternative direct route from Shannon to Limerick for vehicles or drivers who cannot or don't want to use a motorway? The R458 runs through towns as far as Bunratty as far as I'm aware but other than that it's just bog roads.

You could go by Sixmilebridge and Cratloe , not bog roads but a few low bridges

bazz26

flazio wrote: »

Is there an alternative direct route from Shannon to Limerick for vehicles or drivers who cannot or don't want to use a motorway? The R458 runs through towns as far as Bunratty as far as I'm aware but other than that it's just bog roads.

The M18 motorway only starts just north of Shannon so traffic to and from Limerick from Shannon would still be using a national classed dual carriage way (N18) so there would be no legal restrictions to using it. The alternative routes would be local roads with tight bends and some low narrow railway bridges. I wouldn't be in a hurry to take that route.

Henry Ford III

To miss the Shannon to Ennis motorway section is pretty easy. The road is good.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

air wrote: »

Access to the 9 houses at Setrights could be easily diverted to the rear and Setrights junction itself closed without major inconvenience to anyone.

10 houses. What about all the other houses with entrances directly into the N18 without another road to the rear?

pajoguy

Not sure but the design standards for a motorway are not achievable here given its current alignment regardless of the house entrances. There are a few curves on that section where forward visibilty is below motorway standards.
Also not sure about current traffic figures but during the boom it was the busiest dual carriageway in the country outside of Dublin.

air

Cataleya Straight Rugby wrote: »

10 houses. What about all the other houses with entrances directly into the N18 without another road to the rear?

Hardly a major feat of engineering required.


Looking along the whole route there's not a huge amount of houses or entrances and nothing that looks massively expensive in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not suggesting that it be done but to suggest that a few private entrances are an insurmountable obstacle to the upgrade of a national motorway route is quite frankly ridiculous.

flazio

pajoguy wrote: »

Not sure but the design standards for a motorway are not achievable here given its current alignment regardless of the house entrances. There are a few curves on that section where forward visibilty is below motorway standards.
Also not sure about current traffic figures but during the boom it was the busiest dual carriageway in the country outside of Dublin.

Plus, as pointed out to me above, there is no really feasible alternative route for vehicles that can't use the motorway should the road from Shannon to Limerick be upgraded. The only way it could happen is to build a new route and leave the existing N18 as an R road.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

air wrote: »

Hardly a major feat of engineering required.

I'm not referring to those 10 houses, I'm referring to all the others.

Here, for example is a small selection.

air

The 3 houses and the farm you've circled to the South already have an alternative route to the N18 via that farm as it stands. This could be upgraded or shortened as necessary.

The 3 to the North could be easily linked into the pseudo housing estate above the Easternmost house.
Like I said already, I'm not suggesting any of this but it would be trivial and low cost to achieve in comparison with routine costs for having houses CPO'd and demolished for new motorway routes.

There are actually very few entrances overall along the full stretch to Shannon that couldn't be easily extinguished with alternative arrangements being made for access.

martingriff

air wrote: »

The 3 houses and the farm you've circled to the South already have an alternative route to the N18 via that farm as it stands. This could be upgraded or shortened as necessary.

The 3 to the North could be easily linked into the pseudo housing estate above the Easternmost house.
Like I said already, I'm not suggesting any of this but it would be trivial and low cost to achieve in comparison with routine costs for having houses CPO'd and demolished for new motorway routes.

There are actually very few entrances overall along the full stretch to Shannon that couldn't be easily extinguished with alternative arrangements being made for access.

You might show the road they can take through the farm and why should the farm allow people through its property.

Who will pay the people who own the land to connect those houses in the north.

Also why does there need to be either an upgrade to 120 KM because this is what you want not a motorway.

air

I'm out of the discussion, take a look at Google maps yourself and the route is clearly visible.
The farm owner would be paid via a CPO process to facilitate access as is completely normal.

I'm only making the point that the small number of private entrances onto the stretch are a problem that could be easily and cheaply rectified should there ever be a desire to do so.
Rerouting a few driveways and building a few access roads is not a big deal.

Zubeneschamali

air wrote: »

I'm only making the point that the small number of private entrances onto the stretch are a problem that could be easily and cheaply rectified should there ever be a desire to do so.

When the M6 motorway was connected to the Athlone Bypass (a dual carriageway from the 80s-90s), they upgraded the dual carriageway a bit, but they left it at 100 km and did not designate it a motorway.

Various reasons were give (too many junctions, no alternative bridge for tractors except the old one in the town etc), but in fact I think the real reason was that local politicians did not want to hand over control of the road.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

air wrote: »

I'm out of the discussion, take a look at Google maps yourself and the route is clearly visible.
The farm owner would be paid via a CPO process to facilitate access as is completely normal.

I'm only making the point that the small number of private entrances onto the stretch are a problem that could be easily and cheaply rectified should there ever be a desire to do so.
Rerouting a few driveways and building a few access roads is not a big deal.

And what about the house currently being built that front onto the N18?

air

Cataleya Straight Rugby wrote: »

And what about the house currently being built that front onto the N18?

Look it's news to nobody that our planning system is broken, I'm not sure what your point is overall.
If a decision is made to build a motorway or upgrade an existing stretch to motorway them solutions will be found, up to and including demolishing houses.
Plenty were demolished for the Ennis bypass and every other motorway built thus far.

If the council are dumb enough to grant planning for additional one off houses on national routes then we all pay the price ultimately.

martingriff

air wrote: »

Look it's news to nobody that our planning system is broken, I'm not sure what your point is overall.
If a decision is made to build a motorway or upgrade an existing stretch to motorway then solutions will be found, up to and including demolishing houses.
Plenty were demolished for the Ennis bypass and every other motorway built thus far.

If the council are dumb enough to grant planning for additional one off houses on national routes then we all pay the price ultimately.

Plenty of lived in houses were demolished please show the evidence

martingriff

air wrote: »

I'm out of the discussion, take a look at Google maps yourself and the route is clearly visible.
The farm owner would be paid via a CPO process to facilitate access as is completely normal.

I'm only making the point that the small number of private entrances onto the stretch are a problem that could be easily and cheaply rectified should there ever be a desire to do so.
Rerouting a few driveways and building a few access roads is not a big deal.

I see why your out there is no road after that farm and no its not normal to allow cars go through someone one farmyard

shannonman81

If changing the road to a motorway was financially viable it would have been done when all the other work was done.
In portdrine alone you must have seven or eight houses that open straight into the road, plus setrights.

Anyway I don't think that stretch of road is the cause of the recent accidents, I do think it is a gold mine for speeding fines though.

martingriff

shannonman81 wrote: »

If changing the road to a motorway was financially viable it would have been done when all the other work was done.
In portdrine alone you must have seven or eight houses that open straight into the road, plus setrights.

Anyway I don't think that stretch of road is the cause of the recent accidents, I do think it is a gold mine for speeding fines though.

Also you may close that cross at setright but it is right on the road anyway

colm_mcm

I travel that stretch of road every day and have no desire for it to become a motorway.

air

martingriff wrote: »

Plenty of lived in houses were demolished please show the evidence

Why don't you do your own homework?
Go onto the OSI website, view the path of the bypass and then enable the 1995 layer to see what was there before it. There appears to have been 4-5 demolished which is a small number in the grand scheme of things.

There was a new house built at the Dromoland exit to replace one that was demolished as far as I'm aware and I'm sure that similar was done for the others or appropriate compensation paid. There are no doubt reports on the scheme available which detail this.

This is all totally off topic in any case.
The fact remains that if it's judged financially viable to convert the section to motorway at some stage, it will be done.

Alternative access routes can be created through acquisition of small amounts of land.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

There is zero reason for it to be upgraded to motorway, that's everyone's point.

air

Cataleya Straight Rugby wrote: »

There is zero reason for it to be upgraded to motorway, that's everyone's point.

And I agree at present, only countering the argument that it would be somehow impossible to do it.

Zubeneschamali

air wrote: »

The fact remains that if it's judged financially viable to convert the section to motorway at some stage, it will be done.

Take a look at the Galway bypass plans - one of the issues is that all possible routes involve demolishing people's homes. This is one reason why our Motorways cost 8 million per km.

And of course this stretch in Limerick should be a Motorway, as should the Naas dual carriageway and the Athlone bypass. Proper motorways are enormously safer, and one of the reasons road deaths are at record low levels these days is because so many journeys are on motorways.

So these bits and bobs of 70s-80s dualler that break up our intercity motorways should eventually be upgraded.

But of course that is lower priority than finishing the network, so next up is Cork-Limerick.