Degree from IT or University, is there a difference?

Mango Joe

megaten wrote: »

How many realistically move on from Helpdesk into actual technical roles though? Many people I know or know of with IT degree's either stayed in call centre style situations, or moved on to stuff like sales or project management.

Career progression doesn't happen magically 'to' people with certain degrees.

Equally employers won't tour call centres handing out managerial roles to people who didn't even put a hand up for them.

The people who get on in life are the ones that work hard towards achieving the requisite goals towards ensuring their own success.

Or in Ireland (but not isolated to here obviously) its often the ones with well-placed family members.

2011

Salthillprom wrote: »

ITs usually produce technicians (even though they might complete the engineering degree course, it won't be a level 9, which is what a university will now offer for a 5 year degree plus masters course).

Complete bollox.

I am a senior engineer, I have been working for one of the largest engineering consultancies in Ireland for over 10 years. At least 50% of staff including senior management have degrees from an IT. I know many in other consultancies (DPS, M+W, Jacobs etc.) and it is the same.

I’m not going to knock universities, or say that ITs are better. I will say is that it is down to the individual, what experience they have and what they can deliver. I don’t even know where most of my colleagues graduated, it’s simply not relevant. When doing a degree in engineering you learn from first principles. When working as an engineer you learn that things are done very differently in the real world. Once a competent engineer has 5 or more years experience under their belts the course they graduated from is irrelevant. The real learning happens post graduation.

Padre_Pio

Salthillprom wrote: »

Rubbish.
You have to be a Chartered Engineer to be an Assigned Certifier! Engineers Ireland and being a CEng is of crucial importance.

I work with dozens of mech and elec engineers in Ireland. None bothered getting chartered.

I've never seen the point myself. Better off getting a master's in a related discipline.

Re: University vs IT. Ive been to two colleges and two ITs in my time. ITs are more practical as many have mentioned, but there's not much difference.

It doesn't matter when you're job hunting. Far more important are decent grades and IMO being able to show an interest and passion.

I interviewed grads before and theres no difference between 90% of them. Same courses, same projects, same grades, same groups.
Give me a CV where someone shows they do hobby projects outside of college and I'll hire that person all day long.

baby and crumble

To everyone pooh-poohing 'wishy washy' arts degrees, tell me how would you get on in life without

teachers
historians
researchers for the documentaries and tv shows you like
musicians
psychologists
social workers
social researchers
policy makers

and the myriad other roles that are filled with arts graduates for whom their degree is what got them their job, and taught them what they need to know?

The absolute WORST thing a parent can do is push their kids into a career they don't like or have zero aptitude for. At best they'll finish their degree and hop into a job they hate, at worst they'll drop out, or worse. I did an arts degree and followed it up with a relevant postgrad. I'm now happily in an excellent job that I love. If my parents had tried to push me towards a STEM career I'd probably hate my life.

Raconteuse

In this country, when it comes to non academic disciplines, it hardly matters.

ITs tend to foster a better work ethic too.

Church on Tuesday

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

If your kids aren’t smart enough to get the points to do a proper degree in a university then I’d suggest you and your child get over this bizarre fascination with them going to 3rd level.

Having them pricking around for a couple of years doing a useless arts degree is a waste of money. So is doing some diploma in Tractor Maintenance and Blockchain in some shambolic IT in Dundalk or Tralee.

Or worse still.... a PLC.

The absolute horror of it my old boy.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

2011 wrote: »

I graduated from an engineering degree in DIT (Dublin Institute of Technology) which is now called TUD (Technical University of Dublin) and nothing changed for me :pac:

It’s only a name.

I don’t think anyone would think less of someone from MIT than from a university.

What’s more important is the syllabus, the qualification itself, the reputation of the institution and the accreditation.

Well, MIT is very prestigious. So of course they wouldn’t.

2011

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, MIT is very prestigious. So of course they wouldn’t.

Exactly.
You have just made my point i.e. there are far more important factors than whether someone graduates from an IT or a university.

TimeToShine

2011 wrote: »

Complete bollox.

I am a senior engineer, I have been working for one of the largest engineering consultancies in Ireland for over 10 years. At least 50% of staff including senior management have degrees from an IT. I know many in other consultancies (DPS, M+W, Jacobs etc.) and it is the same.

I’m not going to knock universities, or say that ITs are better. I will say is that it is down to the individual, what experience they have and what they can deliver. I don’t even know where most of my colleagues graduated, it’s simply not relevant. When doing a degree in engineering you learn from first principles. When working as an engineer you learn that things are done very differently in the real world. Once a competent engineer has 5 or more years experience under their belts the course they graduated from is irrelevant. The real learning happens post graduation.

I disagree with this to be honest, you may be correct but at board and higher up level most of these companies are dominated by UCD and Trinity graduates or MBAs from prestigious universities abroad. Over here in the UK where I'm currently based you wouldn't stand a chance with the top consultancies unless you've a degree from one of these two universities or a red brick. Bain, BCG, McKinsey etc all wouldn't touch IT graduates with a barge pole, nor would any of the banks or big oil/gas majors. Straight into the bin.

I don't disagree that you can do very well without attending a university but telling someone bright and academic that there's no difference between a top university and the local IT is both untrue and completely unfair on them.

Wildly Boaring

granturismo wrote: »

This is spot on. Some if not all Universities offer a 5th year add on to graduate with a masters which gives chartered engineer status. Check if the IoTs have this 5th year.

The 5th year means you can apply for chartership once you have the necessary experience.
It does not give chartered status.

JohnnyFlash

MIT is a university.

Ficheall

joe40 wrote: »

Thanks for all the people that gave informed and helpful responses but the above post is incredible.

He absolutely has a point about the bizarre fascination with going to third-level.

The third-level social experience can be invaluable, so I wouldn't put that too far down your list of reasons for choosing one over the other, but the actual knowledge gained in a third-level course is certainly not all it's "cracked up to be".
I did my degree in NUIG, and remembered sweet eff all of it after my degree - mostly an exercise in exceedingly-short-term memorisation. A waste of four years as far as actually learning anything went.



I'd sooner hire a decent IT graduate with a couple of months' experience than a university graduate with none.


I think a series of short-term internships in varying roles would be more beneficial educationwise than four years of speculative theory aimed at something you quite likely won't end up enjoying anyway. I'm 32 and still don't know what I want to do, (except that it's something I'm not qualified for) 17 year old me didn't have a hope of making the right call

Mr.Fantastic

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Obviously, a university degree from Trinity or UCD would be the most sought after degrees in the country. After that you’d be looking to NUIG or UCC.

I don’t anyone really rates UL or Maynooth too highly. But they’d both be considered superior to DCU.

I’m sure IT graduates do well for themselves but I don’t think anyone who’s gone through Trinity, UCD, UCC, or NUIG really feels on the same level to the tech schools.

Now, having said that, an IT degree is far superior to any of the “wishy-washy” Arts degrees from the top universities.

I find comments about wishy-washy arts degree infantile to be honest.

I have three qualifications two in humanities one bachelors and one masters and one in computer science.

All three had their own challenges, and required a different train of thought.

If everyone was made study a technical discipline the world would be a very very dull place.

Trigger Happy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MIT is a university.

Some people think the LSE is just a school.

Mrs OBumble

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Or worse still.... a PLC.

The absolute horror of it my old boy.

PLC's are a waste of space.

If the kids cannot get into a real course that they WANT to do, then advise to look for an apprenticeship.

I've never met a poor plumber.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

2011 wrote: »

Exactly.
You have just made my point i.e. there are far more important factors than whether someone graduates from an IT or a university.

MIT is a university. You’re being a bit disingenuous lumping in MIT with Irish ITs. For the sciences, it’s Ivy League-level prestigious. I think that’s why RTCs changed their names to ITs here in Ireland, to catch some of the name recognition of that institution.

partyguinness

"CIT is the place to be
If you can't get into
UCC
UCC
UCC"

2011

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

MIT is a university. You’re being a bit disingenuous lumping in MIT with Irish ITs. For the sciences, it’s Ivy League-level prestigious. I think that’s why RTCs changed their names to ITs here in Ireland, to catch some of the name recognition of that institution.

.....and now what was DIT is a university.

Snow Garden

My brother has a large Accountancy practice and trained/worked in one of the Big 6 in the 90s. He graduated with a Commerce degree from UCG. A lot of trainee accountants have passed through his practice down the years. He always said that Business degree graduates from the ITs were better educated and harder workers than the BComms coming from UCD/UCC/UCG etc.

Church on Tuesday

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

PLC's are a waste of space.

If the kids cannot get into a real course that they WANT to do, then advise to look for an apprenticeship.

I've never met a poor plumber.

I did a PLC and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Learned a lot from it too and I have University degrees.

Any kind of education is not a waste of time.

Padre_Pio

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

MIT is a university.

MIT is a research institute. They have as many post grads as undergrads. CIT has more students. Less worried about providing a foundational education than getting research done and papers published.

Kudos to them, but they're not an educational facility in the traditional sense any more.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

2011 wrote: »

.....and now what was DIT is a university.

You’re completely missing my point. No Irish IT or even Irish university comes close to MIT for pedigree.

partyguinness

Lads, anyone who thinks MIT and the ITs are comparable are on mad delusional drugs.

They are not even in the same galaxy let alone planet.

LirW

baby and crumble wrote: »

To everyone pooh-poohing 'wishy washy' arts degrees, tell me how would you get on in life without

teachers
historians
researchers for the documentaries and tv shows you like
musicians
psychologists
social workers
social researchers
policy makers

and the myriad other roles that are filled with arts graduates for whom their degree is what got them their job, and taught them what they need to know?

The absolute WORST thing a parent can do is push their kids into a career they don't like or have zero aptitude for. At best they'll finish their degree and hop into a job they hate, at worst they'll drop out, or worse. I did an arts degree and followed it up with a relevant postgrad. I'm now happily in an excellent job that I love. If my parents had tried to push me towards a STEM career I'd probably hate my life.

My mother has a Master in Art History and she went on to work in architectural preservation and years later opened a restoration business with my step dad who is a trained restorer.
I have a sister who has a degree in Pedagogy (they're probably the most looked down on in her university) and she trains now to become a Psychotherapist while working in an adult counseling center.

I detest this whole thing "but the gender studies degree haha blabla". An arts degree can open doors to career paths that aren't straight forward to get into and while they often require further study there are plenty of roles out there that look for people with very intellectual and philosophical skill sets.
As you said not everyone has the aptitude to be a lawyer, a doctor or a pharmaceutical researcher. I completely agree with it and I also know first hand how difficult it is for very creative people to find their path because it's often more about fulfilment than monetary success and it's a very difficult line to walk.
I'm aware not every history graduate can become a researcher, but does every IT graduate end up working in code or every business graduate has a suit dress code desk job?

I made a few pretty bad educational decisions in my life and that with a pinch of bad luck and now I decided to go back to college and do something that combines my creative aptitude with something that can be monetized. I would be useless in STEM, I have no interest in working in law. I'd say it's much much harder for people with a creative streak in life to find foot because the value of Arts and anything related to is is much much less than science and society completely backs it up.

lawred2

partyguinness wrote: »

Lads, anyone who thinks MIT and the ITs are comparable are on mad delusional drugs.

They are not even in the same galaxy let alone planet.

the only thing in common is the name

they don't compare on any level - in Ireland IT is a branding exercise. MIT is an institute of technology in the true meaning of the words.

2011

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You’re completely missing my point. No Irish IT or even Irish university comes close to MIT for pedigree.

....and you are missing my points which are:
1) MIT has is an IT and it has not impacted negatively on its reputation.
2) What was DIT is now a university and it has not changed anything.
3) It is what a graduate does in the years post graduation that really counts. This is where they really learn.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

2011 wrote: »

....and you are missing my points which are:
1) MIT has is an IT and it has impacted negatively on its reputation.
2) What was DIT is now a university and it has not changed anything.
3) It is what a graduate does in the years post graduation that really counts. This is where they really learn.

What?

2011

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

What?

Edit: My bad!!! Typo, I should have said “has not”.
My fault for trying to respond in an iPhone. I will correct.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

2011 wrote: »

What diss you think MIT stood for? Check the link:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology

What are you talking about? Of course I know what it stands for. The ‘What?’ is in relation to one of your points that made no sense.

Tom Dunne

2011 wrote: »

....and you are missing my points which are:
1)MIT has is an IT and it has impacted negatively on its reputation.

Edit: Saw your edit.

http://news.mit.edu/2019/qs-ranks-mit-world-no-1-university-0618

2011 wrote: »

2) What was DIT is now a university and it has not changed anything.

DIT was a university in all but name. It exceeded many measures for many years. So it could be argued that the change in status has acknowledged all the good work over the previous years.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

2011 wrote: »

....and you are missing my points which are:
1) MIT has is an IT and it has not impacted negatively on its reputation.
2) What was DIT is now a university and it has not changed anything.
3) It is what a graduate does in the years post graduation that really counts. This is where they really learn.

Of course it flipping hasn’t. It’s fucking MIT. Sadly, DIT or AIT or WIT won’t resonate the same way.

EmmetSpiceland

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I wasn’t aware that graduates of Bess only ended up with mere a BA. Seems like a waste now, I’ve only seen BESS or BBS on paper. What does O’Leary use? I’m guessing if it’s a BA he just leaves it out.

Didn’t know that about Denis, just assumed he’d bought his degree from Dublin Business School or one of the other private ones who wait for the cheque to clear before printing your qualification.

Yep BESS is BA in most cases.

I suspect O'Leary doesn't have to talk about his degree much anymore.

You seem to think having an arts degree would be something to be ashamed of? I have no idea why. Loads of incredibly successful people have arts degrees, the idea that you learn nothing useful studying history (just to give one example) is completely absurd.

2011

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Of course it flipping hasn’t.

That’s my point.

Sadly, DIT or AIT or WIT won’t resonate the same way.

....true and you can add Trinity, UCD and all of the universities in Ireland to that list too.

Ficheall

LirW wrote: »

I detest this whole thing "but the gender studies degree haha blabla". An arts degree can open doors to career paths that aren't straight forward to get into and while they often require further study there are plenty of roles out there that look for people with very intellectual and philosophical skill sets.

I've no problem with most Arts degrees, but this nonsense bothers me - Arts students aren't more intellectual than anyone else. (The oft-cited "critical thinking" is even worse - any computer programmer, for example, will apply "critical thinking" in their everyday tasks, and have their ideas tested. Partaking in boardsie discussions (and indeed most discussions...) requires critical thinking.)
And wth is a "philosophical skill set"? Is that a euphemism, or is it something one trains for by pontificating in a cafe until the wee hours while studying one's navel?

2011

TimeToShine wrote: »

I disagree with this to be honest, you may be correct but at board and higher up level most of these companies are dominated by UCD and Trinity graduates or MBAs from prestigious universities abroad.

You disagree with me but I may be correct?

Yes, I concede that board level things may be different. However an MBA is not where someone starts. They start with a primary degree. Once they do an MBA following many years experience where they did their primary degree becomes less relevant.

Over here in the UK where I'm currently based you wouldn't stand a chance with the top consultancies unless you've a degree from one of these two universities or a red brick. Bain, BCG, McKinsey etc all wouldn't touch IT graduates with a barge pole, nor would any of the banks or big oil/gas majors. Straight into the bin.

I can’t comment about the UK. The OP is clearly based in Ireland. In the ROI demand is outstripping supply. People are hired and paid based on their ability, not by name dropping. Engineering consultancies over here want people that deliver, everything else takes a back seat.

I don't disagree that you can do very well without attending a university but telling someone bright and academic that there's no difference between a top university and the local IT is both untrue and completely unfair on them.

It depends on the area of study the IT in question and the university in question. You need to take my post in context. I was responding to a post that essentially said that ITs produced technicians and universities produced engineers.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

2011 wrote: »

That’s my point.



....true and you can add Trinity, UCD and all of the universities in Ireland to that list too.

Yes, as I already said. So it was a daft example. It’s naive to think that because MIT on your CV won’t hold you back from being hired by some firms and will probably greatly increase your chances of interview that the same holds of an Irish IT.

Ficheall

Ficheall wrote: »

And wth is a "philosophical skill set"? Is that a euphemism, or is it something one trains for by pontificating in a cafe until the wee hours while studying one's navel?

Generally speaking it's a skillset relating to knowledge and learning.

Is this true? If A is true, does that mean B must be true? What is the nature of evidence? Why should I believe some forms of evidence and not others? Is this argument valid, or not valid? Why? How do I use the facts at my disposal to solve this specific problem? How do I clearly articulate my argument and conclusions?

These are all skills that are a) extremely valuable and b) in short supply nowadays.

You don't have to study philosophy to have them of course, but it isn't a bad place to start. Same is true of a lot of other arts subjects, particularly history.

LirW

Ficheall wrote: »

I've no problem with most Arts degrees, but this nonsense bothers me - Arts students aren't more intellectual than anyone else. (The oft-cited "critical thinking" is even worse - any computer programmer, for example, will apply "critical thinking" in their everyday tasks, and have their ideas tested. Partaking in boardsie discussions (and indeed most discussions...) requires critical thinking.)
And wth is a "philosophical skill set"? Is that a euphemism, or is it something one trains for by pontificating in a cafe until the wee hours while studying one's navel?

Funnily enough, cafes used to be a valid place for intellectuals to exchange and write, this was exactly the way you imagine it and some pretty big names like Sigmund Freud were into it.
But that completely aside, my point is:
We all have different cognitive abilities and process the world differently.
Great scientists and researchers often have very logical thinking and reasoning, make sense of numerical material and follow certain processes that require exactly these abilities. You can only learn this to a certain point.
Divergent thinking is often something convergent minds struggle to understand and the other way around.

And this is pretty much what it is about. "Creative thinking" is a different way of problem solving than "logical thinking". One uses facts, one uses imagination and people tend to have stronger aptitudes in just one of them.
Art degrees require a lot of divergent thinking because you'll come across a lot of problems that can't be solved logically and the process of solving issues this way are fundamentally different than logical ones.
Turn it around and take a field that is heavily fact based, they require a good logical ability.

It doesn't mean that one is superior to the other and also doesn't mean that scientists can't have creative hobbies.

RacoonQueen

If I'm hiring IT graduates I don't care where their qualifications come from, I barely pay attention to it. If it is a new or recent grad I will look at the subjects they covered in their degree and I will look at the title or whatever information they provided on final year project and see if there is anything relevant to the job they are applying for.
They'd be better placed learning how to do their CVs and cover letters/job application well and learning not to just blanket apply for every job they find (it's obvious when they've done that).

Ficheall

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is this true? If A is true, does that mean B must be true? What is the nature of evidence? Why should I believe some forms of evidence and not others? Is this argument valid, or not valid? Why? How do I use the facts at my disposal to solve this specific problem? How do I clearly articulate my argument and conclusions?

These are all skills that are a) extremely valuable and b) in short supply nowadays.

You don't have to study philosophy to have them of course, but it isn't a bad place to start. Same is true of a lot of other arts subjects, particularly history.

All basic tenets of scientific study, surely..

The Rape of Lucretia

Psychedelic Hedgehog wrote: »

I can echo the experiences of RTC grads having more hands on experience. Four of us with IT degrees from an RTC landed at the same company years ago and it was commented on by management how quickly we hit the ground running compared to grads from other universities.

(puts down own trumpet)

Which is great if its a hands on job and for people who want to do that kind of work. A lot of jobs, and to a great extent, the higher paying ones, are not hands on, and in that case, university degree grads are more likely the better candidates.

Have your children expressed any preference OP?

There are lots of reasons to pick one place over another.
Proximity, cost, social network, name, subject choice, class size, entry requirements, extra curricular activities, how many busses they'd have to take or whatever.

Career prospects and advantages in life would be big ones but hard to put a euro value on.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have your children expressed any preference OP?

There are lots of reasons to pick one place over another.
Proximity, cost, social network, name, subject choice, class size, entry requirements, extra curricular activities, how many busses they'd have to take or whatever.

Career prospects and advantages in life would be big ones but hard to put a euro value on.

Few years away from decision making yet. The eldest is in TY and is academically very strong. Excellent Junior cert and good work ethic. Definite ideas in mind and to be honest I don't think the IT is on her radar.
The younger lad is less sure of what he would like to but still young. This query grew out of a conversation I had with family in relation to the the local IT ( the LYIT) and University. There are plenty of individual cases where people have done quite well with IT education, I was interested in the experiences of a wider sample.
You're right there are a lot of factors to take into account and ultimately it won't be my decision.

BrianD3

In terms of science degrees, just a couple of points that may conflict with each other. I've come across employers in the pharma and chemical industry who were not keen to employ either TCD grads (degree regarded as not practical enough) or grads from most ITs (degree regarded as not of a high enough standard). The preference was for graduates from UL, DCU and DIT.

Re: the standard of degree - the likes of LYIT has low points for most courses. Although CAO points requirements are due to supply and demand, they often give a general indication of the ability of people doing the course. It's widely known that there are high failure rates in the ITs in courses with low points. It's not too much of a stretch to think that courses may have to be "dumbed down" so that there are some students remaining to graduate at the end of 4 years.

The education system is flawed in any case - I've come across science grads (even those with "practical" degrees) who had great difficulty with basic lab techniques such as serial dilutions. Some of these were doing PhDs, using the techniques in the lab regularly, demonstrating to undergrads and were still having difficulty.

Also, and again in general, high calibre people tend to excel at whatever they do and learn quickly. A TCD Arts graduate who scored 500 points in their LC may make a better scientist after a short period of on the job training than someone with a science degree from an IT who got 200 points in their LC.

Completely unrelated to the standard of degree, I think that people should aim to attend an institution in a city (and stay in that city) rather than attend one in a town like Letterkenny, Athlone or Carlow. Go somewhere where there is a large number of students from all over the country living away from home, a large population of non students, women, lots to do etc. Go to LYIT and I'd imagine that you'll get lots of students from surrounding counties who are there to get a degree as cheaply as possible and live at home while doing so and treating it as an extension of school. It's approx 20 years since I was an undergrad and I find that people of my age who lived away from home and attended universities in cities seem to be more nostalgic about their student days, have had more memorable experiences and made better friends than those who attended their local IT.

Feisar

RacoonQueen wrote: »

If I'm hiring IT graduates I don't care where their qualifications come from, I barely pay attention to it. If it is a new or recent grad I will look at the subjects they covered in their degree and I will look at the title or whatever information they provided on final year project and see if there is anything relevant to the job they are applying for.
They'd be better placed learning how to do their CVs and cover letters/job application well and learning not to just blanket apply for every job they find (it's obvious when they've done that).

At the ripe old age of 35 I’ve only ever applied properly for one job, researched the company and tailored my cv to suit and also my interview agenda. I got the job.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Tom Dunne wrote: »

From an academic perspective, there is no difference - a Level 8 honours degree is a Level 8 honours degree, irrespective of where it came from. That's mostly what employers are concerned with.

In theory, that's true.

In practice, institutional prestige comes into play. Many people would value a degree from Trinity College more than a degree from Sligo IT.

Also, a "level 8 degree" means nothing outside of Ireland. Employers in other countries are likely to look at how highly ranked an institution is internationally, and that's where the top universities will stand their graduates in better stead.

Padre_Pio

Feisar wrote: »

At the ripe old age of 35 I’ve only ever applied properly for one job, researched the company and tailored my cv to suit and also my interview agenda. I got the job.

And that folks is why ultimately the question irrelevant. If you're good at your course, have a passion for what you do, and like getting challenged, you should have no problem getting a job, regardless of where you studied.

I'm in the same boat. Only ever applied for my first job. My subsequent 3 were by referrals and reputation. No one cares that I got my degree from an IT.

LirW

Everlee Long Vignette wrote: »

In theory, that's true.

In practice, institutional prestige comes into play. Many people would value a degree from Trinity College more than a degree from Sligo IT.

Also, a "level 8 degree" means nothing outside of Ireland. Employers in other countries are likely to look at how highly ranked an institution is internationally, and that's where the top universities will stand their graduates in better stead.

In a few other EU countries Level 8 doesn't exist. There's only one Bachelor's degree (180 ects) and you go straight into the master after it if you wish. No honours degree.
Funnily enough would my sister with her 180 point degree move here, her degree would be accredited as Honours (which requires 240 ects).
So it's not as uniform and straight forward, even if it should be.

nkl12xtw5goz70

2011 wrote: »

1) MIT has is an IT and it has not impacted negatively on its reputation.

Despite its name, MIT is a university. In the USA, Irish ITs would be community colleges.

Captain Havoc

I'm in my fifth year studying part-time for an arts degree from the Open University.