General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

sid waddell

Leroy42 wrote: »

Not that is much better, but it was not Hancock but one of his aides or helpers that was punched.

Either way, that is totally uncalled for and disgraceful behaviour

Yet when Tory MP Mark Field assaulted a woman at a dinner in London last summer, right-wingers were queueing up to praise him.

ArmaniJeanss

WALES ONLY before anyone gets too excited.

YouGov.

LAB: 40% (+2)
CON: 37% (+5)
PLC: 10% (-1)
LDM: 6% (-3)
BXP: 5% (-3)
GRN: 1% (=)

Probably the highest the Tories have polled in Wales in a couple of generations. Would see them win 6 or 7 extra seats.

Leroy42

sid waddell wrote: »

Yet when Tory MP Mark Field assaulted a woman at a dinner in London last summer, right-wingers were queueing up to praise him.

Doesn't make it right though (and I know that is not what you are suggesting).

As another poster said, this will now lead the news, rather than the fact that this is the reality of the NHS in the UK today.

quokula

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Agreed, another case of Labour managing to turn a potentially positive story into a negative I fear.

Labour turning a positive story into a negative or Laura Kuenssberg trying to change the narrative as usual?

McGiver

sid waddell wrote: »

Polling is literally a weighting game. If you make incorrect assumptions in your framework, you'll have a bad poll. We won't know who has been getting their weighting right and who has been getting it wrong until Thursday night.

Survation's poll with a 14 point Tory lead from last night seems all over the place to me. It's possible thee Tories could be 14 ahead, but the figures in the poll itself are bizarre.

It has the Tories ahead of Labour in London, and the combined Labour-Lib Dem vote in London at just 42.7%, even if it does have 10% undecided. That seems ludicrous to me.

It has Labour ahead of the Tories in Scotland and less than 1% behind the SNP. I also have a very hard time believing that.

If, like me, you want Labour to win (or the Tories to not get a majority) and are clutching at straws, there's a guy here who has a good track record who has a thread which sets out why the real Tory lead may be as low as 2.6%. He called 2017 correctly including predicting Labour would win Canterbury at odds of 25/1. I'm not convinced he's right this time though.

https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1203719501881188354

This shows it all. I see a trend of Labour narrowing the gap slightly.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/dec/08/election-polls-uk-2019-latest-opinion-poll-tracker-tories-labour

sid waddell

Leroy42 wrote: »

Not that is much better, but it was not Hancock but one of his aides or helpers that was punched.

Either way, that is totally uncalled for and disgraceful behaviour

Have we considered that this could be fake news, yet another "dead cat"?

I wouldn't put it past the Tories at all, I'd strongly suspect it to be honest.

Given that Laura Kuennsberg is basically a mouthpiece for "Conservative sources", it all seems a bit convenient - and eyewitness reports are strangely absent.

Kuennsberg tweets "not entirely clear what happened". Yeah, you bet it's not, which is why the BBC Political Editor and every other "pol corr" is jumping all over it, the whole thing is just a soap opera to them.

quokula

sid waddell wrote: »

Have we considered that this could be fake news, yet another "dead cat"?

I wouldn't put it past the Tories at all, I'd strongly suspect it to be honest.

Given that Laura Kuennsberg is basically a mouthpiece for "Conservative sources", it all seems a bit convenient - and eyewitness reports are strangely absent.

Kuennsberg tweets "not entirely clear what happened". Yeah, you bet it's not, which is why the BBC Political Editor and every other "pol corr" is jumping all over it, the whole thing is just a soap opera to them.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1204086533202026496

Looks like a completely made up story from the Tories, disproven by video from the scene, regurgitated uncritically by the BBC's political editor.

Leroy42

quokula wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1204086533202026496

Looks like a completely made up story from the Tories, disproven by video from the scene, regurgitated uncritically by the BBC's political editor.

It that is true, ie that the story is false, then LK really needs to be fired.

Professor Moriarty

sid waddell wrote: »

Polling is literally a weighting game. If you make incorrect assumptions in your framework, you'll have a bad poll. We won't know who has been getting their weighting right and who has been getting it wrong until Thursday night.

Survation's poll with a 14 point Tory lead from last night seems all over the place to me. It's possible thee Tories could be 14 ahead, but the figures in the poll itself are bizarre.

It has the Tories ahead of Labour in London, and the combined Labour-Lib Dem vote in London at just 42.7%, even if it does have 10% undecided. That seems ludicrous to me.

It has Labour ahead of the Tories in Scotland and less than 1% behind the SNP. I also have a very hard time believing that.

If, like me, you want Labour to win (or the Tories to not get a majority) and are clutching at straws, there's a guy here who has a good track record who has a thread which sets out why the real Tory lead may be as low as 2.6%. He called 2017 correctly including predicting Labour would win Canterbury at odds of 25/1. I'm not convinced he's right this time though.

https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1203719501881188354

A glimmer of hope.

sid waddell

Leroy42 wrote: »

It that is true, ie that the story is false, then LK really needs to be fired.

Even in the event that it did turn out to be true, reporting what is basically hearsay and gossip in the full knowledge that it is such, as she tacitly admits in one of her tweets, is terrible journalism. And it's not just Kuennsberg doing this, it's the whole media.

Obviously she gets highlighted more because she's the Political Editor of the BBC. You sort of expect it from the The Sun and the Mail and Daily Express, reprehensible as it is.

quokula

Laura K backtracking now that the lie's been proven. Just think, if the protesters hadn't been carrying cameras, that story could conceivably have been leading on BBC news tonight. With representatives of both sides present for balance of course.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1204091376884948992

sid waddell

Here's what happened.

Completely fake story.

An activist was pointing into the air for emphasis while talking after Hancock's car had left.

A man, presumably the advisor, walks into the man's outstretched hand from behind.

No punch.

It's at 0:36.


https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1204092683591004163

Leroy42

She really isn't backtracking. The video is 100% clear. There was no punch, no harm, nothing. But instead of calling out her source which clearly lied to her she says that it was a 'pretty grim encounter'. Really one guy on a bike shouting!

And then saying that even a small amount of protestors can make a lot of noise! How about saying that 1 or 2 Tory PR spinners can completely make up a story to try to deflect from the reality.

Shameful from LK.

Joe_ Public

What actually is kuennsbergs game? Is she really that biased or incompetent or just plain lazy or even all three. Is she trying to provoke the bbc into sacking her because that logically seems to be where this has to go. I mean i say logically....

Just nobody surely can make it so obvious and expect to get away with it.

sid waddell

The point is, the deliberate lie by the Tories has distracted from the story they wanted to distract from - the four year old boy with pneumonia having to lie on a pile of coats on the floor at the hospital in Leeds because there weren't even trolleys available.

Infini

Leroy42 wrote: »

It that is true, ie that the story is false, then LK really needs to be fired.

To be fair at this point she's not really a journalist at this point but a government shill acting purely to pump out propaganda for Boris and co. She can hardly be considered credible considering the way she's abandoned actual facts for the Tory Rumormill.

Joe_ Public

sid waddell wrote: »

The point is, the deliberate lie by the Tories has distracted from the story they wanted to distract from - the four year old boy with pneumonia having to lie on a pile of coats on the floor at the hospital in Leeds because there weren't even trolleys available.

Yes this is it again. If the story of the tories concocting a fake news story about a labour activist assaulting matt hancock drives the news agenda tonight, that'll be job done as far as their concerned. Amazing how quickly the machine can crank into action, with the help of the usual media enablers.

sid waddell

If Kuennsberg, Peston etc. have any intent on making amends they should name the "sources" that told them the lie.

No chance of that of course.

All these tweets repeating the lie are just remaining up on Twitter and there is no apology from any of these "journalists".

They don't care.

Strazdas

sid waddell wrote: »

The point is, the deliberate lie by the Tories has distracted from the story they wanted to distract from - the four year old boy with pneumonia having to lie on a pile of coats on the floor at the hospital in Leeds because there weren't even trolleys available.

In fairness, the BBC led on the young boy story in their election coverage this evening and didn't mention the Hancock assault.

gooch2k9

Strazdas wrote: »

In fairness, the BBC led on the young boy story in their election coverage this evening and didn't mention the Hancock assault.

Their live feed was the first place I saw the video disproving the lie.

sid waddell

sid waddell wrote: »

Here's what happened.

Completely fake story.

An activist was pointing into the air for emphasis while talking after Hancock's car had left.

A man, presumably the advisor, walks into the man's outstretched hand from behind.

No punch.

It's at 0:36.

Disgraceful behaviour.

"You are not welcome in this country" - what sort of foul language is that!?

Labour activists have shot themselves in the foot here. We don't want this sort of divisive politics in the UK.

Joe_ Public

Peston at least apologised. Said he was told the lie by "senior" tories. If i was him I'd be angry enough to name and shame them. We've had this recently with no.10 "sources", these fools are learning nothing.

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

In fairness, the BBC led on the young boy story in their election coverage this evening and didn't mention the Hancock assault.

Thats good to know. Though to be fair, I'm not inclined to go overboard with praise for merely doing their job.

Melanchthon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Disgraceful behaviour.

"You are not welcome in this country" - what sort of foul language is that!?

Labour activists have shot themselves in the foot here. We don't want this sort of divisive politics in the UK.

They should have sent Sajid or Patel if they knew there was going to be that style of heckling, optics would have been much better for the Tories

Harry Palmr

@bbclaurak will I think pay a price after this election, everyone is now on her case and being seen to be on her case. The head of news, who has the advantage of being a woman, will probably find a way of moving her sideways without it creating a sustained fuss.

Channel 4 News will be worth watching I think.

hotmail.com

Rather than bias, I feel it's a rush to get information out that might be considered dramatic/sensational.

Being high profile on social media is now very much part of the job for a journalist and it leads to these mistakes.

Professor Moriarty

Harry Palmr wrote: »

@bbclaurak will I think pay a price after this election, everyone is now on her case and being seen to be on her case. The head of news, who has the advantage of being a woman, will probably find a way of moving her sideways without it creating a sustained fuss.

Channel 4 News will be worth watching I think.

Laura might indeed pay a price. Johnson today revealed that he intends to review the BBC's licence fee with a view to abolishing it.

Leroy42

hotmail.com wrote: »

Rather than bias, I feel it's a rush to get information out that might be considered dramatic/sensational.

Being high profile on social media is now very much part of the job for a journalist and it leads to these mistakes.

At least in the case of LK, it always appears to be a rush to the get Tory positive spin out first.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

Disgraceful behaviour.

"You are not welcome in this country" - what sort of foul language is that!?

Labour activists have shot themselves in the foot here. We don't want this sort of divisive politics in the UK.

Well according your standards pretty much anything goes, maybe he said it in jest, or its just a way of speaking. Sure if we check a video of anyone enough times they are bound to have said something similar.

So lying is fine, cause everyone does it. Saying something that gets a citizen more prison time in Iran is fine because Johnson doesn't do detail. Trying to steal a reporters phone because you don't want to answer the question about a child lying on coats is grand. But having a rant at a minister that has overseen the worst NHS record ever is shooting themselves in the foot?

Give over!

liamtech

Deleted User wrote: »

Disgraceful behaviour.

"You are not welcome in this country" - what sort of foul language is that!?

Labour activists have shot themselves in the foot here. We don't want this sort of divisive politics in the UK.

Sorry Eskimo please forgive me - perhaps i have this wrong - could you clarify please?

Boris Johnson; Refers to Black people as Pickaninnies with Watermelon Smiles, Gay People as Tank Top Bumboys, and Muslim women as Letterboxes

Eskimohunts Verdict; A colorful use of the english language which you find engaging, provocative, humorous and shows witt

Labour Supporter; Shouts that the Torys are not welcome, on a day when a picture of a child on a hospital floor is going viral

Eskimohunt; is outraged by this 'foul language', and an example of 'Divisive politics'

POT CALLING KETTLE?

Are you actually serious? Are you capable of balance at all?