General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

Strazdas

CelticRambler wrote: »

My entirely skewed sampling of family-and-friends voters in the UK (all Remainers) indicates that they'll all be adopting the anyone-but-Boris tactic. The Canterbury crowd had a round-dinner-table discussion on the subject to agree that everyone would vote Labour regardless of natural LibDem Green-ish inclinations.

I'd like to think that similar consideration was being given to the matter across the country ... but then you hear an interview with disenchanted Leavers moaning "we voted Leave, I don't understand why we haven't left yet!" and you realise that some voters' intellectual capacity doesn't quite stretch to concepts like democracy and parliamentary process.

There are millions of such people but the hope would be that they are a vocal minority and have been overstated and given too much prominence by the media.

If Johnson was to lose tonight, their precious Brexit is dead in the water (The Sun's headline today practically admits as much).

joe40

CelticRambler wrote: »

My entirely skewed sampling of family-and-friends voters in the UK (all Remainers) indicates that they'll all be adopting the anyone-but-Boris tactic. The Canterbury crowd had a round-dinner-table discussion on the subject to agree that everyone would vote Labour regardless of natural LibDem Green-ish inclinations.

I'd like to think that similar consideration was being given to the matter across the country ... but then you hear an interview with disenchanted Leavers moaning "we voted Leave, I don't understand why we haven't left yet!" and you realise that some voters' intellectual capacity doesn't quite stretch to concepts like democracy and parliamentary process.

I watched a video from the Guardian, where the reporter was travelling around Northern England towns, interviewing people to get a feel for public opinion. Unless the video was heavily edited the level of disenfranchment and disengagement was staggering.
Working class/poor people willing to vote conservative purely on the "get Brexit done" slogan.

Total denial about how complex and difficult the Brexit process is, just simplistic notions of we voted leave why aren't we out yet?

Shelga

joe40 wrote: »

I watched a video from the Guardian, where the reporter was travelling around Northern England towns, interviewing people to get a feel for public opinion. Unless the video was heavily edited the level of disenfranchment and disengagement was staggering.
Working class/poor people willing to vote conservative purely on the "get Brexit done" slogan.

Total denial about how complex and difficult the Brexit process is, just simplistic notions of we voted leave why aren't we out yet?

Hopefully these people just don't vote.

beggars_bush

joe40 wrote: »

I watched a video from the Guardian, where the reporter was travelling around Northern England towns, interviewing people to get a feel for public opinion. Unless the video was heavily edited the level of disenfranchment and disengagement was staggering.
Working class/poor people willing to vote conservative purely on the "get Brexit done" slogan.

Total denial about how complex and difficult the Brexit process is, just simplistic notions of we voted leave why aren't we out yet?

you'd just wonder what conversations are they having at the dinner tables about the country and the way things are going for them?

or are they just plonked in front of the tv eating microwaved ready meals and swiping right or left on their phones?

beggars_bush

beggars_bush wrote: »

in any rational democracy the Leave vote would be a matter for parliament to then decide on, based on the best deal available for the country.

that's not the way UK politics has gone though. Thanks mainly to Teresa May and the Tory party

you mean a vote in Parliament to invoke article 50?

Like this one?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38833883

ancapailldorcha

Serious posts only please. Some posts have been deleted.

Shelga

https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/12/11/the-last-days-of-hope

Interesting article from Ian Dunt, telling it like it is. This election really will be the one that decides what kind of country the UK is- even in 2017 the picture was less clear, and Brexit was still not due to happen for nearly 2 years.

Now, the urgency of the decision can't be denied. Are they a country that swallows lie after lie after lie, unquestioningly? Are they a country that doesn't care about devastating Tory cuts that have destroyed their social fabric? Are they a country who truly does not care about the fate of poorer people?

I'm ashamed to say, looking back, that I voted Tory in 2015. However, I was in the safest of safe Labour seats so I knew my vote would likely go in the bin. And I am so much more engaged with politics now, and my views have completely changed. I just mention it as I'm an example of a floating voter, who wouldn't touch them with a barge pole now, or ever again.

My basic line of thinking back then was- "they're not that bad, I don't really like Ed Miliband, and the country seems to be doing ok." The Conservative Party of 2019, however, is so much more sinister and has taken such a swing to the hard right, I honestly don't know how anyone with any decency could vote for them now.

Obviously, I now see that Miliband would have been one hundred times preferable to Cameron. Maybe I fell for some of the lies of the UK media at the time, I wasn't immune.

Sadly, I do think Johnson will get his majority. I used to love the UK. Now, I feel like someone who managed to get to one of the lifeboats of the Titanic, looking back at the sinking ship, full of people who are stuck on it. I can honestly say I don't ever see myself going back to live there, and that's mostly because of Brexit and the horrible, uncaring, racist place it has become.

prawnsambo

joe40 wrote: »

Are there any moderate Tory candidates in the election this time round. People Like Oliver Letwin and Ken Clarke that openly oppose "no deal Brexit"

By all accounts, Julian Smith, the SoS for NI is such a (rare) beast. Heard Tommy Gorman talking about him on the radio yesterday and he's pretty much immersed in NI and hasn't spent much time in his constituency. Gorman was saying that he's done quite a lot of work in a very short space of time and is seen as genuinely good at his job. Clearly destined for the scrap heap if so.

beggars_bush

Aegir wrote: »

you mean a vote in Parliament to invoke article 50?

Like this one?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38833883

no, decide on a coherent strategy before jumping into something like that

They have been making it up as they go along every since

quokula

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

I've been reading reports about long queues on FB in other parts of the UK too.

I voted quite early this morning in Hampshire, held my nose and voted tactically. Very, very busy, but no queues. The weather is horrendous.

C'mon Labour!

I know loads of people who are voting this morning rather than their usual evening vote because of Christmas commitments and because of weather concerns. So I wouldn't read into it too much yet.

ancapailldorcha

One-liners deleted. No more please.

CelticRambler

CelticRambler wrote: »

My entirely skewed sampling of family-and-friends voters in the UK (all Remainers) indicates that they'll all be adopting the anyone-but-Boris tactic. The Canterbury crowd had a round-dinner-table discussion on the subject to agree that everyone would vote Labour regardless of natural LibDem Green-ish inclinations.

I'd like to think that similar consideration was being given to the matter across the country ... but then you hear an interview with disenchanted Leavers moaning "we voted Leave, I don't understand why we haven't left yet!" and you realise that some voters' intellectual capacity doesn't quite stretch to concepts like democracy and parliamentary process.

I have friends and relatives who are Conservative and voting labour for the first time in years because they see it as a way to stop Brexit and Labour supporters who are voting Conservative for the first time ever because a Corbyn government scares them more than Brexit does.

beggars_bush

Aegir wrote: »

I have friends and relatives who are Conservative and voting labour for the first time in years because they see it as a way to stop Brexit and Labour supporters who are voting Conservative for the first time ever because a Corbyn government scares them more than Brexit does.

how does it scare them?
they've a fully costed manifesto with some genuinely good ideas in it

Water John

Really excellent post Shelga.
Julian Smith has been really working behind the scenes in NI. He is not favoured by Johnson and if Tories get a majority it looks like he''l be dumped. That's how much Johnson considers the value of peace in NI.

Bannasidhe

beggars_bush wrote: »

how does it scare them?
they've a fully costed manifesto with some genuinely good ideas in it

Which to be honest is a hell of a lot more than can be said about the whole Brexit initiative the Tories based their campaign on.

beggars_bush

beggars_bush wrote: »

how does it scare them?
they've a fully costed manifesto with some genuinely good ideas in it

because it isn't.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-gaps-in-labours-spending-plans

While the early signs of queues are promising, as others have said it is Christmas party season, so some voters who would traditionally vote after work, are doing so before work.

One nice thing about the pictures I've seen is how many young people are queueing up.

I still think it's a Tory govt, hopefully a minority one, with Lib Dems and a confirmation Brexit vote on the cards.

ancapailldorcha

Aegir & Bonniesituation cut out the sniping. Next pot shot from either of you and bans will be issued.

BonnieSituation

prawnsambo wrote: »

By all accounts, Julian Smith, the SoS for NI is such a (rare) beast. Heard Tommy Gorman talking about him on the radio yesterday and he's pretty much immersed in NI and hasn't spent much time in his constituency. Gorman was saying that he's done quite a lot of work in a very short space of time and is seen as genuinely good at his job. Clearly destined for the scrap heap if so.

Absolutely. It's been clearly evident.

He couldn't be much worse than his 2 immediate predecessors though, but that dilutes how good he has been.

Even in committee he's been clear and concise and not afraid to tell harsh truths.

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

because it isn't.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-gaps-in-labours-spending-plans

There's gaps alright, but it's not exactly 350mn a week to the NHS, is it?

quokula

beggars_bush wrote: »

how does it scare them?
they've a fully costed manifesto with some genuinely good ideas in it

They've been reading the nonsense the right wing papers publish I assume. And the Tory advertisements that fact checkers have found overwhelmingly misleading.

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

There's gaps alright, but it's not exactly 350mn a week to the NHS, is it?

Or awarding a contract worth £13.8m to a 'shipping' company with no ships or experience in running a ferry service which speaks volumes about how fiscally responsible the Tories were in government.

Or the promised 40 hospitals - who did the costing on those?!?!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

There's gaps alright, but it's not exactly 350mn a week to the NHS, is it?

Not quite, no.

The WASPI compensation alone is a gap of £223m per week though.

dfx-

joe40 wrote: »

I watched a video from the Guardian, where the reporter was travelling around Northern England towns, interviewing people to get a feel for public opinion. Unless the video was heavily edited the level of disenfranchment and disengagement was staggering.
Working class/poor people willing to vote conservative purely on the "get Brexit done" slogan.

Total denial about how complex and difficult the Brexit process is, just simplistic notions of we voted leave why aren't we out yet?

It's an indication of how badly a second referendum would've gone (which it now won't). It was always easier to campaign on that message as a slogan - Farage would probably go with "tell them again".

What's Johnson looking for in terms of a comfortable working majority - 15, 20, 30?

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Or awarding a contract worth £13.8m to a 'shipping' company with no ships or experience in running a ferry service which speaks volumes about how fiscally responsible the Tories were in government.

I'm surprised you believe the hype around that one.

It could have worked if the press hadn't blown it out of all proportion. Unfortunately, it looks like Ramsgate will never again have a ferry service and the jobs that go with it.

Sam Russell

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Or awarding a contract worth £13.8m to a 'shipping' company with no ships or experience in running a ferry service which speaks volumes about how fiscally responsible the Tories were in government.

Or the promised 40 hospitals - who did the costing on those?!?!

Why did no-one ask him 'Where are these 40 hospitals going?' or 'How big are these hospitals? Are they cottage hospitals or are they as big as St. Thomas's or King's Hospital in London?' or 'When are they due to open?'.

No-one asked for details.

quokula

quokula wrote: »

They've been reading the nonsense the right wing papers publish I assume. And the Tory advertisements that fact checkers have found overwhelmingly misleading.

I just posted a link to the C4 fact checker, or are Channel four just another Tory mouth piece?

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

While the early signs of queues are promising, as others have said it is Christmas party season, so some voters who would traditionally vote after work, are doing so before work.

One nice thing about the pictures I've seen is how many young people are queueing up.

I still think it's a Tory govt, hopefully a minority one, with Lib Dems and a confirmation Brexit vote on the cards.

Which should hopefully mean more people now turn up to vote on seeing that other people are queuing up to do so.

beggars_bush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why did no-one ask him 'Where are these 40 hospitals going?' or 'How big are these hospitals? Are they cottage hospitals or are they as big as St. Thomas's or King's Hospital in London?' or 'When are they due to open?'.

No-one asked for details.

journalism is the uk is very poor
even the BBC seems to have sided with the Tories

prawnsambo

Aegir wrote: »

I'm surprised you believe the hype around that one.

It could have worked if the press hadn't blown it out of all proportion. Unfortunately, it looks like Ramsgate will never again have a ferry service and the jobs that go with it.

Ramsgate couldn't. It wasn't deep enough.