General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

MrMusician18

devnull wrote: »

Seeing some of the people involved in Momentum posting on Twitter is depressing reading.

Apparently their hero lost because
1) The media smeared him
2) People in his own party smeared him.
3) Blairites
4) Tory Lite types

The fact that he lost because of the fact that the public just didn't like him enough, doesn't occur to Momentum.

If Momentum carry on with this and get a new extreme left leader in then they'll get hammered in 2024 as well.

As I said before, so many people in UK I know who voted for remain voted Tory tonight, as they felt Corbyn was more dangerous than Brexit. This is what Jeremy Corbyn has done to the Labour Party. He has made them unelectable even to people who were remain who hate the Tories.

When you drill into his policies, none are really that radical (aside from denuclearization) for a socialist/progressive. He has though been utterly demonized by all parts of the media - by the right as the devil incarnate, and the center left who wanted someone like Blair.

That said, the election failure is his to own and he has to go.

On a wider note, it's hard to see where Britain goes from now. It's going to get squeezed in the coming trade talks from all sides and it's hard to see how they can keep Scotland in the union.

If Brexit was the seed that was to lead of the break up of the UK, this election has to be the first shoots.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Brexit Party may not win any seats but they are picking up a decent %

Blyth Valley Tory win.

I think that was the entire point.

The BXP can take votes from Labour who would never vote for the Conservatives.

It's almost a pincer-like effect. Take votes from Labour, and the Conservatives rise through to take the seat.

So whilst the BXP may not take seats, they've taken enough Labour votes to ensure that Labour didn't take the seat.

namloc1980

Labour thrashed in Blyth Valley.

For Forks Sake

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Labour lose a seat that has never been anything other than labour.

I'd say we'll be repeating that statement several times this evening.

Letwin_Larry

Lab share of the vote is considerably down in traditional Lab seats.
Meltdown on the cards?

WomanSkirtFan8

liamtech wrote: »

Shocking but not unexpected - DUP never take responsibility for anything and rarely if ever accept reality

Is there any word on North Belfast? or South Belfast for that matter

Dont know about North Belfast but heard earlier that Claire Hanna of the SDLP looks set to take South Belfast.:cool:

Strazdas

Sardonicat wrote: »

Cons take Blythe Valley
Unbelievable

Working class voting for a Tory austerity government.....good luck with that one

MrMusician18

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You clearly know nothing about Singapore.

Singapore is basically a one party state, that if the UK loses Scotland, England is likely to end up the same.

suicide_circus

is it far to say that the working classes are essentially conservative with a small c? and that labours infatuation with fringe social justice types doesnt really sit with them?

Calhoun

Deleted User wrote: »

Just woke up a while ago. Wasn't expecting that headline but pretty nonplussed about the result. DUP being irrelevant is good. The result shows a second referendum would have been a huge Leave win. Corbyn should be finally gone, and the idea of putting hated characters like Hillary or Jeremy against populists might finally die.

Just a pity the government won't be held by things like the Benn Act. It really is a game changer in that regard.

Indeed I think this election more so than anything has been about the leaders. It says allot that people would vote for Boris over Corbyn, labour have some soul searching to do as this should have been the one in which they won.

Itssoeasy

And earlier on BBC radio 4 a labour candidate said that during the campaign that voters who had voted labour all their lives and had no ill will to the candidate himself that they couldn't vote for labour with Corbyn as leader. Surely that Corbyn gone as he's turned life long labour voters away.

Harry Palmr

Most seats so far around 10% down for Labour, Brexit Party is getting more of the swing away than Tories which is unexpected.

bigroad

That was very close bit of a shock for Labour.

namloc1980

So basically Labour voters who would never vote for the Tories, marked the box for the Brexit party.

CPTM

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Yeah but not everywhere surely.

Likes of Sunderland used to be done and dusted in 50mins. Is something up here?

Hopefully the sign of a much greater turnout

dublinman1990 wrote: »

RTÉ are behind with their results. They are showing the speech from Newcastle Central.

I wonder if it's a tv rights agreement, to have a bit of a delay.

joe40

NIMAN wrote: »

For all the laughing and joking about Johnson being a numpty and a buffoon, he is going to give the Tories a famous victory tonight (assuming exit polls are accurate).

So say all you want, he appealed to the UK public a lot more than Corbyn, and that's democracy.

It might be painful for Ireland, but it will be good to get this Brexit thing sorted out at last.

This wasn't about Johnson or corbyn, it was a defacto rerun of the Brexit referendum.
In a way a strong majority one way or the other is the best result for us.
The way Johnson shafted the DUP gives me some hope he might be more pragmatic than his bluster implies. I still think he is a numpty and a buffoon though, but willing to see how EU negotiations pan out this year.
He may end up with strong majority in Westminster but that will have little influence in Brussels.

devnull

Beth Rigby on Sky just nailed it about Jeremy Corbyn saying that he was a bigger asset for the Tory party than he was for his own party.

Nody

Well this should turn interesting either way and in a way is actually a generally good thing; there's basically three possible outcomes from a longer term perspective:

a) Dumpster fire of UK economy happens in some form (this is basically the WTO exit scenario without any deals)
b) UK Brexit turns into the death by a thousand cuts expected by many if they do end up with a deal (which by definition will be less favorable than being in EU)
c) UK thrives outside of EU (somehow magic unicorns and trade deals etc. coming from somewhere hand waving WTO etc. which is even more fun as Trump tries to shut WTO down because he finds it unfair he can't abuse other countries as well as he should but that's another thread) / gets a new improved deal etc. Personally I find this highly unlikely and I've spelled out why but I'm always open to be proven wrong.

Option A and B are then strong indicators why all other countries in EU would remain; it's basically what shut up every 'exit party in every country from Italy in the south to Sweden in the north after the Brexit vote and helped prove a strong vote against such ideas. Option C is what the Brexiteers here think will happen but always fail to explain how it is suppose to happen; what exactly these new and improved trade deals are suppose to contain (and why no such deals have materialized to date in any negotiation with any country) etc. But once again; maybe there's something we're missing here and if option C turns out to happen that provides a reason for EU to break up as clearly it's better to be outside the largest trading block in the world and if anything would force radical changes to EU at the very least.

At the end of the day there's a saying about democracy; you get the leader you deserve. US voters voted in Trump (in the key areas with a few hundred thousands votes margin); the UK voters have voted in Boris. Both cases they get to live with their votes and enjoy the outcomes accordingly no matter what they are. But one thing is for sure; the Brexit threads around here are not over by a long shot; that's a topic that will live on for at least another five years if not a decade or more. Hope you enjoy talking about Brexit because it's here to stay in oh so many ways.

duffman13

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Most seats so far around 10% down for Labour, Brexit Party is getting more of the swing away than Tories which is unexpected.

Still doing all the damage to the Labour really, traditional labour voters won't vote Conservative but Brexit party is fair game and therefore hurting Labour

BonnieSituation

liamtech wrote: »

Iv been watching him for weeks pal

• Wants to rip up the peace process
• Rip up power sharing
• accuses EVERYONE who is not DUP, of being ANTI-UNION
• implicitly threatens violence and public disobedience -rioting, which he has a lot of experience in from the flag protest

He is a thoroughly despicable character

I've been watching him years. He's a non-entity.

I wouldn't worry. Poor lad can't go on a hunger strike properly.

lawred2

My wife has had her European citizenship taken for her

liamtech

devnull wrote: »

Beth Rigby on Sky just nailed it about Jeremy Corbyn saying that he was a bigger asset for the Tory party than he was for his own party.

Sadly yes - its true

Corbyns refusal to pact/cooperate with other anti tory parties - down right arrogance

its shocking - i loved the guy when he became leader - now i wish it had not happened

McGiver

eskimohunt wrote:

The electorate have spoken and opted to Brexit and to support Johnson's Deal.

You mean 42% of them or so?

devnull

namloc1980 wrote: »

So basically Labour voters who would never vote for the Tories, marked the box for the Brexit party.

I know so many voters who were previous Labour supporters who abandoned them.

- The Brexiteers went to the Brexit party generally, some to Tories.
- The remainers went to the Conservatives, Lib Dems, SNP and others.

I was staggered that so many Labour remainers would prefer a Brexit supporting Boris Johnson to Corbyn. That's a damning indictment of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership when lifelong voters would rather vote for their biggest rivals and a policy they hate than for Labour.

duffman13

Brexit party spanner on sky at the moment! still saying they hope to win a seat but it's great for Conservatives etc

AllForIt

suicide_circus wrote: »

is it far to say that the working classes are essentially conservative with a small c? and that labours infatuation with fringe social justice types doesnt really sit with them?

Well it was the Lib Dems this time round that championed fringe issues, i.e. allowing ppl to self identify as whatever gender they liked without any medical certificate whatsoever. That didn't go down well at all and rightly so.

suicide_circus

democracy strikes again it seems

namloc1980

Anyway when will Indyref2 happen??

Berserker

namloc1980 wrote: »

So basically Labour voters who would never vote for the Tories, marked the box for the Brexit party.

Or they didn't bother voting at all. Pro-Brexit people wanted to make a statement in this election, so I would imagine that they were more likely to go out and vote.

MPFGLB

A some good news DUP having a bad night !!!