General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

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Richard Hillman wrote: »

Left wing politics is in deep trouble. They just cannot accept that

-Welfare Class/Lower Working people don't like "Diversity"
-They have no interest in identity politics
-They are Socially Conservative
-They couldnt give a fiddlers about Climate Change
-They hate globalism

The traditional left has abandoned their heartland for media adoration

About a quarter of working class always voted Tory. It may be more this time.

Indeed, plenty of traditional Labour supporters wouldn't abide voting Tory.

Akrasia

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Mod note:

Lets stay on topic please

The topic for tonight is the decline of western civilization

5 years of the very worst of the Tory party at a time when global social, political and environmental crisis are approaching tipping points

I think it’s time to open that Bottle of bushmills

Letwin_Larry

The Sun headline is wishing its' readers "MERRY BREXMAS"

Capt'n Midnight

OK this could be good if you think the DUP are like certain other democracies*


https://twitter.com/SuzyJourno/status/1205284491138404352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1205284491138404352&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsluggerotoole.com%2F2019%2F12%2F12%2Fthe-slugger-big-bumper-uk-general-election-results-live-blog%2F




*Sir Humphrey Appleby : East Yemen, isn't that a democracy?
Sir Richard Wharton : Its full name is the Peoples' Democratic Republic of East Yemen.
Sir Humphrey Appleby : Ah I see, so it's a communist dictatorship.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You cannot say that, it is just as likely that the voters who voted for the BP would not have voted for the Tories. They may have drifted back to Labour or not bother at all

I’d agree. The BP votes only made a difference to the turn out.

A Dub in Glasgo

I am staying up for my constituency result which hopefully will be in about 30 minutes (Rutherglen & Hamilton West)

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quokula wrote: »

While there’s some truth in the fact that voters are woefully misinformed and uneducated in the UK, I don’t think it’s an option for modern centre left politicians like Corbyn to just pretend the climate crisis isn’t real or to embrace racism and homophobia in order to win votes.

Working class voters aren't misinformed. You just can't group them altogether with the same brush.

Support for the reintroduction of capital punishment is higher among the working class than the middle class.

A lot of the working class are conservative with a small c.

Itssoeasy

Peter mandleson has called Jeremy Corbyn a Marxist on BBC radio 4.

CrabRevolution

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Labour have no chance in Scotland.
Even the Troy reassurance was flash in the pan.

SNP are doing way better in the GE than they are in the Assembly. That alone says a lot.


Faslane ? The first and best answer to any question about Scottish independence is to say what actually happened in Ireland. The pound ? , the CTA ? , exports to the UK ? ( down from over 90% to 9% (actually 7% excluding NI)) Pensions ? Reciprocal arrangements on XYZ ? Ground Rent ?

Faslane ? Treaty Ports.

An alternative answer is that the US supported their boomers for many years in that locality from a depot ship.

The Scottish Parliament is designed for it to be almost impossible to get a majority. There's 73 seats filled in the usual FPTP way, but the remaining 56 are drawn from a larger constituency list. In the constituency list, a party's total votes are divided by the number of seats that party already has won in that constituency, so effectively the more seats you win in the regular vote, the fewer you'll win in the list vote. A party with a 1'000'000 list votes but with 3 MSPs elected, will lose the constituency seat to a party with 250'001 list votes but no MSPs elected.

BonnieSituation

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

OK this could be good if you think the DUP are like certain other democracies*


https://twitter.com/SuzyJourno/status/1205284491138404352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1205284491138404352&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsluggerotoole.com%2F2019%2F12%2F12%2Fthe-slugger-big-bumper-uk-general-election-results-live-blog%2F

AP look to be over 1000 2000 ahead in North Down.

Announcement imminent!

MPFGLB

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Left wing politics is in deep trouble. They just cannot accept that

-Welfare Class/Lower Working people don't like "Diversity"
-They have no interest in identity politics
-They are Socially Conservative
-They couldnt give a fiddlers about Climate Change
-They hate globalism

The traditional left has abandoned their heartland for media adoration

I think there is some truth in that but not the full story

The poorest people today are still so much better off than the poorest 50 years ago (except homeless)
I do think working class people do give a fig about climate change and some diversity but what is different now is the media and internet

There is abroad a feeling of not being heard and being left behind so those who are highly educated and in good paying jobs in good areas are seen as the enemy abit like the EU is also an enemy

The problem is the media and politicians play on insecurities and people vote based on fear and divisions

The truth is global warming and globalisation are real issues and rather than leaders setting out on ways to tackle these that are inclusive they pitch people against each other ..always looking for blame and short term advantages

This is going to get alot worse as problems escalate
No way is Boris Johnson a great leader ...he is reactive
At least Corbyn was trying to narrow the massive wealth divide that exits in the UK

PressRun

quokula wrote: »

While there’s some truth in the fact that voters are woefully misinformed and uneducated in the UK, I don’t think it’s an option for modern centre left politicians like Corbyn to just pretend the climate crisis isn’t real or to embrace racism and homophobia in order to win votes.

Their voters are consistently and aggressively lied to at every turn on almost every issue in the UK. And the issue isn't the lying exactly, it's the fact that people don't actually care that they're being lied to. They're comfortable with a bare-faced liar like Johnson. There's literally no point in pointing out when and how someone is lying anymore, because so many voters don't actually care and will go ahead and vote for the liar anyway. That's why it's so easy for the likes of Trump and Johnson to lie and bumble about like fools in plain sight. They know no one cares and they know they have the support of the media when push comes to shove.

Shelga

Palpable tension in the Channel 4 studio with Stanley Johnson and the other panelists, after Johnson made a stupid comment about how fighter pilots shouldn't wear burqas :rolleyes:

I don't think it was a good idea to have him on. What might have been amusing in the case of a hung parliament or a slim Tory majority, is turning into him becoming the focal point of all of the studio's understandable anger.

Pretty much every single labour MP tonight has been quite brutal in their attack on Corbyn.

Melanchthon

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I think it's telling when people refer to the PM by their first name and the leader of the opposition by his surname.

That makes no sense particularly from an Irish perspective, most people called Ahern, Bertie, Brian cowen was called Cowen, no matter opinion's about FF

Atlantic Dawn

ITV talking about the Russians, when the Russian card is played you know you are defeated.

Letwin_Larry

let's be honest here. the UK electorate had a choice between 2 political pygmies.
in their wisdom/desperation they choose the one, who would make less of a mess

NIMAN

I wonder will we look back at this 2019 election as the one that started the breakup of the Union and the catalyst for a UI?

Akrasia

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Boris will be walking on air this morning when he gives a press conference.

Oh, so he’ll give a press conference tomorrow after people have already voted, but he hid in a fridge when his opinion might have actually affected peoples votes

Autocratic leadership 101

Akrasia

NIMAN wrote: »

I wonder will we look back at this 2019 election as the one that started the breakup of the Union and the catalyst for a UI?

That would be the referendum in 2016

Today’s vote is just another brick in that wall

Letwin_Larry

Shelga wrote: »

Palpable tension in the Channel 4 studio with Stanley Johnson and the other panelists, after Johnson made a stupid comment about how fighter pilots shouldn't wear burqas :rolleyes:

I don't think it was a good idea to have him on. What might have been amusing in the case of a hung parliament or a slim Tory majority, is turning into him becoming the focal point of all of the studio's understandable anger.

i agree, magnanimity would not be one of his strongest characteristics imo.

PressRun

NIMAN wrote: »

I wonder will we look back at this 2019 election as the one that started the breakup of the Union and the catalyst for a UI?

I don't see where else it could go?
Scotland, if they've anything about them, should be itching to make the leap now. NI might take longer because of the divisions there, but if Brexit hadn't happened and now this Conservative majority, I think you'd be looking at a much longer wait. United Ireland probably been accelerated by this. Of course the DUP and other hardline unionists will die screaming about it, but it won't change the fact that it's a sinking ship.

BonnieSituation

NIMAN wrote: »

I wonder will we look back at this 2019 election as the one that started the breakup of the Union and the catalyst for a UI?

Yes

4068ac1elhodqr

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

ITV talking about the Russians, when the Russian card is played you know you are defeated.

Lol, everytime hear the term 'russ bots' have a vision of an 80's sci-fi movie, with billions of hybrid-cyborgs (bit like the dude from Rocky4) in a flouresent cube-farm, banging away, syntax error free, on early PowerMacs/Netscape.

darem93

NIMAN wrote: »

I wonder will we look back at this 2019 election as the one that started the breakup of the Union and the catalyst for a UI?

If these exit poll figures do turn out to be true, it does look like Scotland is having their "1918 moment". If Scotland does go then I think it's only a matter of time before the North goes too.

Richard Hillman

Shelga wrote: »

Palpable tension in the Channel 4 studio with Stanley Johnson and the other panelists, after Johnson made a stupid comment about how fighter pilots shouldn't wear burqas :rolleyes:

I don't think it was a good idea to have him on. What might have been amusing in the case of a hung parliament or a slim Tory majority, is turning into him becoming the focal point of all of the studio's understandable anger.

Any time I switch on its a car crash. Disaster of an idea for Channel 4. It was as if they were going to invite active political folks to the audience, results filter in and everybody just shake hands and say "congratulations, see you in 5 Years time"

Akrasia

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

let's be honest here. the UK electorate had a choice between 2 political pygmies.
in their wisdom/desperation they choose the one, who would make less of a mess

Based on a ‘pin the tail on the donkey’ electoral system

quokula

NIMAN wrote: »

I wonder will we look back at this 2019 election as the one that started the breakup of the Union and the catalyst for a UI?

Absolutely. This is the end of the UK as we know it, without question.

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darem93 wrote: »

If these exit poll figures do turn out to be true, it does look like Scotland is having their "1918 moment". If Scotland does go then I think it's only a matter of time before the North goes too.

But they won 58 seats in 2015.