General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

bren2001

robinph wrote: »

Even in England the Tories were voted for by less than 50% of the population. Even adding in the Brexit Party votes it's still less than 50%.

The result might be a massive Tory majority, but they (and the idea of Brexit) are not supported by the majority of the population.

I agree. A lot of people on this thread have said something to the effect that, based on the GE results, if the referendum was held again that Leave would win by a bigger majority. There's no part of the UK that had a vote share above 50% for either Brexit backing party. Wales and Scotland voted for Remain parties (NI is a different kettle of fish).

However, a Brexit backing party has got quite a large majority in government. They've a mandate to deliver Brexit and there's very little anyone can do about it. The electorate have decided the direction they want the UK to move. Interesting times ahead for Scotland.

ILoveYourVibes

robinph wrote: »

That is like saying that governing a country is all about ignoring and destroying those who didn't vote for you.

Its not. I wouldn't waste my time doing that. Its about getting power and staying in power and then implementing your policies.

The one party people voted for in a big enough block was the Tories. For whatever their reasons.

Labour LOST their core voters. The red wall was demolished. All those towns butchered by Thatcherism went blue.

THAT is very meaningful.


I wouldn't worry about the votes the Tories lost if i were a tory. I would worry the votes i lost if i were labor though. Wouldn't you?

bren2001

signostic wrote: »

Could Johnston now seek to get rid of the Common Travel Area?

Why would he? What's his incentive for doing that? It seems like it would just make life very tricky for himself if he goes that hard against the GFA.

MrMusician18

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There are unrelenting and vicious media campaigns about EVERY politician there has ever been.

Boris got exactly the same treatment.

And they both deserve it.

Corbyn has been treated no better no worse.

Corbyn had been getting it with both barrels from his own side for years. There was something of a cessation after Mays snap election but the anti semitism stuff was ramped up again against him.

He was utterly disasterous on Brexit though. Should have taken a clear position sooner. That said, remain could've built a coalition in the last parliament to stop Brexit but they blew it.

ILoveYourVibes

bren2001 wrote: »

I agree. A lot of people on this thread have said something to the effect that, based on the GE results, if the referendum was held again that Leave would win by a bigger majority. There's no part of the UK that had a vote share above 50% for either Brexit backing party. Wales and Scotland voted for Remain parties (NI is a different kettle of fish).

However, a Brexit backing party has got quite a large majority in government. They've a mandate to deliver Brexit and there's very little anyone can do about it. The electorate have decided the direction they want the UK to move. Interesting times ahead for Scotland.

Spread across the board more people voted for remain parties ...but they couldn't organize themselves into an alliance because they are a mess. The vote was more than split it was spread.

And dont forget a lot of Lab voters ARE brexiters.

Berserker5

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its not. I wouldn't waste my time doing that. Its about getting power and staying in power and then implementing your policies.

The one party people voted for in a big enough block was the Tories. For whatever their reasons.

Labour LOST their core voters. The red wall was demolished. All those towns butchered by Thatcherism went blue.

THAT is very meaningful.


I wouldn't worry about the votes the Tories lost if i were a tory. I would worry the votes i lost if i were labor though. Wouldn't you?

They'll get them back, it's down to corbyn , labour losing safe seats

ILoveYourVibes

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Corbyn had been getting it with both barrels from his own side for years. There was something of a cessation after Mays snap election but the anti semitism stuff was ramped up again against him.

He was utterly disasterous on Brexit though. Should have taken a clear position sooner. That said, remain could've built a coalition in the last parliament to stop Brexit but they blew it.

So was May. He honestly had it no better or worse than anyone else.

bren2001

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Spread across the board more people voted for remain parties ...but they couldn't organize themselves into an alliance because they are a mess. The vote was more than split it was spread.

And dont forget a lot of Lab voters ARE brexiters.

I agree, if the remain parties had formed a proper alliance we'll never know what they could have achieved. The only people to blame are Swinson and Corbyn who are tactically inept.

Some Lab voters are Brexiters all right, it's a bit too simplistic to chalk it up the way I have. Ultimately we'll never know what would happen if there was a second referendum because there isn't going to be one.

robinph

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its not. I wouldn't waste my time doing that. Its about getting power and staying in power and then implementing your policies.

The one party people voted for in a big enough block was the Tories. For whatever their reasons.

Labour LOST their core voters. The red wall was demolished. All those towns butchered by Thatcherism went blue.

THAT is very meaningful.


I wouldn't worry about the votes the Tories lost if i were a tory. I would worry the votes i lost if i were labor though. Wouldn't you?

But you don't "bring the country together" after winning only 40% of the vote by telling the other 60% to sod off and accept it, nah nah!!

Yes the Tories won, but they now have to govern the whole country and the majority of the country did not vote for them. Admitely they majority who didn't vote for them couldn't organise themselves into a useful grouping to properly oppose, but they still exist.

newport2

Quotes of the day so far:

"In 400 years, children will ask why people all drag their fridges out into the streets and dance around them every 13th December"

"The turkeys haven't just voted for Christmas, they've climbed into the oven, stuffed themselves with Paxo and turned it up to gas mark 4."

ILoveYourVibes

Berserker5 wrote: »

They'll get them back, it's down to corbyn , labour losing safe seats

Part of it is Corbyn and part of it is Brexit. They probably will get them back. But its a long time until then.

ILoveYourVibes

newport2 wrote: »

Quotes of the day so far:

"In 400 years, children will ask why people all drag their fridges out into the streets and dance around them every 13th December"

"The turkeys haven't just voted for Christmas, they've climbed into the oven, stuffed themselves with Paxo and turned it up to gas mark 4."

LOL! Who said them?

Professor Moriarty

careless sherpa wrote: »

You have left out that there has been an unrelenting and vicious media campaign against him for years

He was, officially, the most unpopular opposition leader ever. He presided over a party that was infected by a hard left movement. The vast majority of his own MPs voted to get rid of him. In 2017 he couldn't unseat a fractured Tory party led by a zombie. He showed zero leadership and dithered, obfuscated his way through a clown show campaign. His position on Brexit was to have a referendum but, farcically, not support any deal he negotiated. Most importantly, in a presidential style election against an elitist, lying and egotistical showman, he remained a charisma free zone.

Apart from that, well done Jeremy.

Tom Mann Centuria

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So was May. He honestly had it no better or worse than anyone else.

Absolute nonsense.

The Evening Standard is edited by the former Tory Chancellor. The Times, Telegraph, Express, Daily Mail, Sunday Times, Mail on Sunday, Sunday Express, Sun, Sun on Sunday, Sunday Telegraph supported May, and Johnson and a pig in lipstick if you put a blue rosette on it.

The Mirror, Sunday Mirror and Guardian would be more sympathetic to Corbyn.

Yet you suggest Cameron, May or Johnson had the same vitriol aimed toward them as Corbyn has.
Just as Ed Miliband got it much worse, just as Neil Kinnock did and numerous Labour leaders historically before them.

None of of this is a new phenomenon. Labour leaders ALWAYS get a harder time than Tories in the British press.

Your posts are tragically ill informed or Grade A horsesh*t.

Calhoun

Some of the more self reflective things I am seeing online elsewhere are the comments from folk about how they could have missed this as all the news was pointing at a Tory loss.

The shocked realization of the echo chamber that parts of online sites have become as they misread entirely. Big lesson for all on diversity in your media sources.

Ribs1234

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They don't know what they want and what they have promised they can't deliver.

They keep saying scotland could stay in the EU which the EU has refused. And they say scotland could leave the union and be in the EU..which would leave them with EXACTLY the same issues we are having with NI. And they keep saying they wouldn't have to accept the euro on joining as a separate nation again untrue. They haven't explained how leaving the union might leave them in a diff customs union from the rest of the uk many businesses suffering.

They are not in any way dealing with reality. Nor are they being honest with people ...its just trying to rally up their vote.

No country has to accept the Euro, only start the process (Sweden?) so they can peg to sterling. The other stuff can only be discussed when they know what the UK borders with the EU will be like - no point stating things now if reality going to be different. After yesterday’s election, no detail and no manifesto has to be the new mantra. People are good at finding holes in published plans, but if there is no plan....?

For Forks Sake

https://www.bbc.com/news/election/2019/results


Lib Dems actually had the largest increase in vote share, FPTP is a joke.

facehugger99

Thargor wrote: »

Oh God Corbyn saying he won't fight another election means hes planning on hanging around for another few years.

The man is an arrogant, self-serving fool.

If he had a shred of decency he would have announced his immediate resignation last night.

20Cent

Calhoun wrote: »

Some of the more self reflective things I am seeing online elsewhere are the comments from folk about how they could have missed this as all the news was pointing at a Tory loss.

The shocked realization of the echo chamber that parts of online sites have become as they misread entirely. Big lesson for all on diversity in your media sources.

Yes definitely, the filter bubble is a huge issue.
Social media is a terrible way to get news information the algorithms tell you what you want to hear.

Chips Lovell

If you look at overall turnout compared to 2017, the election is less of a Tory win and more of an utter collapse for Labour.

Conservative: 13,636,684 to 13,941,086
Labour: 12,877,918 to 10,292,354
Lib Dem: 2,371,861 to 3,675,342
SNP: 977,568 to 1,242,380

Boris gained 300,000 votes. Corbyn lost 2.6 million.

This is actually quite similar to how Thatcher won power. It was less of a swing to the Tories and more down to Labour voters staying at home.

One upside of this election is that Corybn is gone. Being asked to choose between him and Boris was like being asked to choose between a punch in the face and a kick in the bollix. Worst Labour performance since 1935, I hear. Worse even than Michael Foot in 1983, whose manifesto was famously dubbed the longest suicide note in history.

When you compare the two manifestos, it makes you think of Einstein's defniition of insanity.

Letwin_Larry

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He was, officially, the most unpopular opposition leader ever. He presided over a party that was infected by a hard left movement. The vast majority of his own MPs voted to get rid of him. In 2017 he couldn't unseat a fractured Tory party led by a zombie. He showed zero leadership and dithered, obfuscated his way through a clown show campaign. His position on Brexit was to have a referendum but, farcically, not support any deal he negotiated. Most importantly, in a presidential style election against an elitist, lying and egotistical showman, he remained a charisma free zone.

Apart from that, well done Jeremy.

i asked right at the beginning of this thread if Jeremy & Jo would get it on like Nigel & Boris.
they would/could n't and so effectively handed No.10 to Boris.

Bit cynical

I wonder will there be protests in front of Westminster over the results like there was after the referendum result.

wassie

robinph wrote: »

But you don't "bring the country together" after winning only 40% of the vote by telling the other 60% to sod off and accept it, nah nah!!

Yes the Tories won, but they now have to govern the whole country and the majority of the country did not vote for them. Admitely they majority who didn't vote for them couldn't organise themselves into a useful grouping to properly oppose, but they still exist.

But thats how works democracy isn't it?

robinph

Bit cynical wrote: »

I wonder will there be protests in front of Westminster over the results like there was after the referendum result.

Can't see why there would be... but if they try to claim that this result means that the country wants a no deal brexit they might.

awec

I don’t really understand why Corbyn is hanging around. He should go immediately and let the next person have a clean slate.

Rightly or wrongly the longer he’s in charge the more tainted the party becomes at this stage.

A Dub in Glasgo

Chips Lovell wrote: »

and more down to Labour voters staying at home...

.. or voting for the Brexit Party

Farage was on last night, with some merit, stating that he helped the Tories over the line in a lot of Labour constituencies

Duke of Url

Bit cynical wrote: »

I wonder will there be protests in front of Westminster over the results like there was after the referendum result.

I actually think the EU Flags and that guy on the megaphone will be no longer a part of Sky news soon enough.

Its clear what the English have voted for.

VinLieger

wassie wrote: »

But thats how works democracy isn't it?

is a government elected by 44% of the electorate democracy? That is the question


Again the UK have only had 1 government elected by a majority of the voting electorate in the last 70 years. That only is possible thanks to FPTP being horribly broken.

BTW im not questioning the result of the election they won under the system they have, but that system has been shown again and again to not reflect true democratic wishes.

Bit cynical

Duke of Url wrote: »

I actually think the EU Flags and that guy on the megaphone will be no longer a part of Sky news soon enough.

Its clear what the English have voted for.

Big gains in Wales too for the Tories (+6) almost doubling their seats but Labour still win with 22 seats to 14.

Letwin_Larry

Duke of Url wrote: »

I actually think the EU Flags and that guy on the megaphone will be no longer a part of Sky news soon enough.

Its clear what the English have voted for.

i'm delighted. good riddance. at least we wont have to listen to those whingy English complaining about how Brussels is controlling their lives.