General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

LuckyLloyd

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There are unrelenting and vicious media campaigns about EVERY politician there has ever been.

Boris got exactly the same treatment.

And they both deserve it.

Corbyn has been treated no better no worse.

Nope:

https://www.lboro.ac.uk/news-events/general-election/report-3/#section-5

ILoveYourVibes

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nope:

https://www.lboro.ac.uk/news-events/general-election/report-3/#section-5

Why do you measuring how many negative stories vrs positive ones measures anything?

He was treated no worse because he got what he deserved.

He is an anti semitic moron who met with IRA members while the IRA was still active. He is friends with terrorists.

Can you imagine if a tory did that? They would get exactly the same.

Corbyn is NOT a good person. He's self serving rude ..PETTY my god oh so petty ..delighted the man is gone.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

is a government elected by 44% of the electorate democracy? That is the question


Again the UK have only had 1 government elected by a majority of the voting electorate in the last 70 years. That only is possible thanks to FPTP being horribly broken.

BTW im not questioning the result of the election they won under the system they have, but that system has been shown again and again to not reflect true democratic wishes.

Sure what's better? The biggest party being in government which the electorate clearly voted for, or a mish mash coalition of parties that they didn't vote for.

I really hope this talk dies down soon and I hope some Russia stuff doesn't crop up. Enough voted for the Tories and the Brexit party to give them a mandate and that's all we need to know.

Second referendum? Gone. Revoke? Gone. The UK can go to the EU now and do what May couldn't.. Negotiate with the understanding that what they say is what they can make happen.

FrancieBrady

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

who met with IRA members while the IRA was still active. He is friends with terrorists.

So did Thatcher...behind the backs of those she was telling she that she 'would never negotiate with with terrorists'.

FFS Corbyn did the responsible thing...he talked. The British government eventually and inevitably did too.

BarryD2

Presume the likes of Paul Murphy, Brid S and Rich Boy Barrett here will reflect on their hero Corbyn? Electorate here is not too different and would show no favour to the policies they espouse.

ILoveYourVibes

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So did Thatcher...behind the backs of those she was telling she 'would never negotiate with'.

FFS Corbyn did the responsible thing...he talked. The British government eventually and inevitably did too.

No sadly he just went to have his picture taken to show it to some hippie friends. He had no authority and was a back bencher he wasn't part of any govt. He undermined human rights and the rights of the victims of the IRA by doing so in this way. It makes me think he is a sociopath. It was in the 70s/80s.

Thatcher did the right thing by not giving them a platform at that time. It would have been immoral.

flazio

Within 24 hours of the referendum result, Cameron resigned, within 24 hours of the 1997 election result Major resigned. Corbyn simply has to realise now his position is completely untenable.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure what's better? The biggest party being in government which the electorate clearly voted for, or a mish mash coalition of parties that they didn't vote for.

I really hope this talk dies down soon and I hope some Russia stuff doesn't crop up. Enough voted for the Tories and the Brexit party to give them a mandate and that's all we need to know.

Second referendum? Gone. Revoke? Gone. The UK can go to the EU now and do what May couldn't.. Negotiate with the understanding that what they say is what they can make happen.

+1
I think anyone who voted for Brexit is clearly devoid of any sense but it is absolutely and unequivocally clear now that the majority of the UK support Boris and Brexit so all talk of second referendums etc are off the table. It's BoJo's deal now.

ArmaniJeanss

He also supported and met with the ANC at a time when they were regarded as a terrorist organisation. And when the Mail/Express and the UK government felt keeping Mandela locked up was justified, he was campaigning for his release.

But curiously that one is no longer thrown at him.

Professor Moriarty

flazio wrote: »

Within 24 hours of the referendum result, Cameron resigned, within 24 hours of the 1997 election result Major resigned. Corbyn simply has to realise now his position is completely untenable.

The 24 hours isn't up yet...

ILoveYourVibes

Oh my god Ken Livingston has blamed Jews for destroying Corbyn.

Its so ken.

X111111111111

Simon Coveney close to tears on RTE radio

Lefty Bicek

Manach wrote: »

Rather reminds me of the 1983 election, when the Labour party similiarly ran on an ideologically pure campaign and shoot itself in the foot as it did not reasonate with the electorate. Then they had the added disadavantage of it being a Khaki election due to the Falklands, so it makes the current result even comparatively worse for them.

And, with the Foot.

Foot and Blair in their polar opposite ways demonstrated what Labour needs to do.

To his credit, Corbyn is no Blair.

Letwin_Larry

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

He also supported and met with the ANC at a time when they were regarded as a terrorist organisation. And when the Mail/Express and the UK government felt keeping Mandela locked up was justified, he was campaigning for his release.

But curiously that one is no longer thrown at him.

forget Corbyn he is now soon to be consigned to history's rubbish bin, where he belongs.

Enzokk

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

.. or voting for the Brexit Party

Farage was on last night, with some merit, stating that he helped the Tories over the line in a lot of Labour constituencies

He cost the Tories as well I think.

https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/constituencies/E14000870

Oldham East & Saddleworth

Labour
Debbie Abrahams
Votes:
20,088

Conservative
Tom Lord
Votes:
18,589

The Brexit Party
Paul Brierley
Votes:
2,980

https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/constituencies/E14001014

Wansbeck

Labour
Ian Lavery
Votes:
17,124

Conservative
Jack Gebhard
Votes:
16,310

The Brexit Party
Eden Webley
Votes:
3,141

That is 2 constituencies that had the Brexit Party not been there, then the Tories could have won. So if I was Nigel Farage I would wind my neck in.

droidus

To state the obvious. This turned out to be a Brexit election. Labour lost big in Leave seats, a consequence of caving to the centre and backing a second referendum.

Corbyn's unpopularity also a factor, partly due to his own faults, and partly due to the unprecedented smear campaign. The policies however continue to poll well in the UK. His moment was 2017.

We are now in very dangerous territory. The Tories are promising to reform parliament in favour of the ruling party. During the course of the campaign they've repeatedly threatened media organisations who gave them bad press. Their entire election campaign was based on lies and gaslighting.

This is all uncontroversial textbook pre totalitarian stuff. Terrifying if you take into account their lurch to the hard right and adoption of blatantly racist policies.

Anyone who thinks a belligerent UK governed by an emboldened cabal of extreme right liars and racists is going to work out well for Ireland needs their head examined.

robinph

ELM327 wrote: »

+1
I think anyone who voted for Brexit is clearly devoid of any sense but it is absolutely and unequivocally clear now that the majority of the UK support Boris and Brexit so all talk of second referendums etc are off the table. It's BoJo's deal now.

Nope, 44% voted Conservative. That isn't a majority.

wassie

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The 24 hours isn't up yet...

Yep - the Lefties love a good public lynching and given the result Jeremy has a couple of days at most...

ILoveYourVibes

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Horsesh*t. Quantity over quality posting as usual.

LOL how do you NOT know the backstory to that??? If you did you wouldn't be surprised.

YES he did:pac:.

Ken Livingstone says 'the Jewish vote wasn't very helpful'

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/10542744/ken-livingstone-unhelpful-jewish-exit-poll/

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-13/ken-livingstone-identifies-jewish-vote-as-factor-in-labours-poor-showing/

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/ken-livingstone-says-the-jewish-vote-wasn-t-very-helpful-1.494326


He was suspended from Labour for anti semitism earlier in the year didn't you hear?

Mr Livingstone quit Labour last year after he became the centre of a furious row when he claimed Hitler had supported Zionists.

In 2014, he said Jewish people stopped voting Labour "as they got richer", adding the community "moved over to voting for Mrs Thatcher as they did in Finchley".

Worst of all was this

While leaving a City Hall LGBT reception in February 2005, Livingstone objected to an Evening Standard photographer "harassing" other guests. When Evening Standard journalist Oliver Finegold introduced himself as working for the paper, Livingstone asked if he had been "a German war criminal." When Finegold said that he was Jewish, Livingstone said he was "just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you?" and asserted that he (Finegold) worked for the "reactionary bigots... who supported fascism" at the Daily Mail

I guess the above is just a smear campaign.

He and Corbyn have been friends for decades.

Chips Lovell

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

.. or voting for the Brexit Party

Farage was on last night, with some merit, stating that he helped the Tories over the line in a lot of Labour constituencies

As Mandy Rice Davies said: "He would say that, wouldn't he".

However, the numbers don't really back this up. UKIP polled 594,068 in 2017 under the virtually unknown Paul Nuttall. Farage's Brexit Party (who would presumably have gotten most of the old UKIP vote) only got 642,323 votes.

Letwin_Larry

now that Boris has a comfortable working majority, he can now ditch Arlene & Sammy, and also tell the ERG to go for a hike.

We are now likely to see a nicer, warmer, kinder more inclusive Boris aka Mayor of London. Should also make for a softer Brexit, which will suit Ireland & the EU better.

all round this is a good result. more clarity. more certainty/less uncertainty. more pragmatic.

bren2001

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure what's better? The biggest party being in government which the electorate clearly voted for, or a mish mash coalition of parties that they didn't vote for.

I really hope this talk dies down soon and I hope some Russia stuff doesn't crop up. Enough voted for the Tories and the Brexit party to give them a mandate and that's all we need to know.

Second referendum? Gone. Revoke? Gone. The UK can go to the EU now and do what May couldn't.. Negotiate with the understanding that what they say is what they can make happen.

Is Boris's deal not "oven ready"? Are we less than 24 hours into this term and you're already accepting a massive lie that Boris has told. If he goes back to negotiate is he accepting that his deal is not oven ready? that it is not a great deal? that it does indeed place a massive customs check down the Irish sea?

Secondly, why in Gods name would the EU reopen negotiations? How is it in their interest at this stage? They've agreed a deal with May. They've agreed a deal with Boris (albeit the same deal with worse conditions imo). The EU will politely tell him to sign the WA and come back to the table for trade talks or don't sign the deal and don't come back for trade talks. Won't be trade talks if they place physical checks on the Irish border.

robinph

robinph wrote: »

Nope, 44% voted Conservative. That isn't a majority.

It isn't a referendum.. If you dismiss 44% in a general election where that party decimated the other parties, you're effectively arguing that a democracy should only have two parties so as to avoid this scenario. I don't want to put words in your mouth but in my mind, that's what it boils down to really.

I'm a fan of geography when it comes to politics. It's why Ireland has MEPs. It's why underpopulated regions can have their say. If the Tories won geographically, then it's theirs. Especially in a GE.

FrancieBrady

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No sadly he just went to have his picture taken to show it to some hippie friends. He had no authority and was a back bencher he wasn't part of any govt. He undermined human rights and the rights of the victims of the IRA by doing so in this way. It makes me think he is a sociopath. It was in the 70s/80s.

Thatcher did the right thing by not giving them a platform at that time. It would have been immoral.

John Hume didn't even have the mandate of his own party. Sociopath or visionary?

Professor Moriarty

droidus wrote: »

To state the obvious. This turned out to be a Brexit election. Labour lost big in Leave seats, a consequence of caving to the centre and backing a second referendum.

Corbyn's unpopularity also a factor, partly due to his own faults, and partly due to the unprecedented smear campaign. The policies however continue to poll well in the UK. His moment was 2017.

We are now in very dangerous territory. The Tories are promising to reform parliament in favour of the ruling party. During the course of the campaign they've repeatedly threatened media organisations who gave them bad press. Their entire election campaign was based on lies and gaslighting.

This is all uncontroversial textbook pre totalitarian stuff. Terrifying if you take into account their lurch to the hard right and adoption of blatantly racist policies.

Anyone who thinks a belligerent UK governed by an emboldened cabal of extreme right liars and racists is going to work out well for Ireland needs their head examined.

Absolutely. They have lurched to the right and that's where they will stay. One Nation Tories are now an extinct species. Populism has got them a large majority and populism will be embedded in the Tory party forever. All changed, changed utterly: A terrible beauty is born.

Tom Mann Centuria

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

LOL how do you NOT know the backstory to that??? If you did you wouldn't be surprised.

I quoted the wrong one one of your posts when I called it horsesh*t, hence I deleted it, but since you replied to it, it's a good example of how media can frame the same things in very different ways.

Here's how the Daily Mirror described Livingstones comment, including the line after the one you quoted.

Corbyn had paid the price for several aspects of his campaign, including not taking more action against anti-semitism.


"The Jewish vote wasn't very helpful," Mr Livingstone said

"Jeremy should have tackled that issue far earlier than he did."


See how things can be framed differently by more sympathetic sources?


But I think I'll leave you to your online guide to posting the first thing that comes into your head to keep the post count up, and subscription to the Daily Mail.

BonnieSituation

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There are unrelenting and vicious media campaigns about EVERY politician there has ever been.

Boris got exactly the same treatment.

And they both deserve it.

Corbyn has been treated no better no worse.

Well that's patently not true. In any possible way.

Letwin_Larry

Boris can now choose to ignore the SNP and also all talk of a border poll. these people like the DUP now have no leverage and in the scheme of things are an irrelevancy.
their tiny complaining voices will barely be heard above the din of a 78 seat majority.

BonnieSituation

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They don't know what they want and what they have promised they can't deliver.

They keep saying scotland could stay in the EU which the EU has refused. And they say scotland could leave the union and be in the EU..which would leave them with EXACTLY the same issues we are having with NI. And they keep saying they wouldn't have to accept the euro on joining as a separate nation again untrue. They haven't explained how leaving the union might leave them in a diff customs union from the rest of the uk many businesses suffering.

They are not in any way dealing with reality. Nor are they being honest with people ...its just trying to rally up their vote.

Again, none of that is true.

bren2001

bren2001 wrote: »

Is Boris's deal not "oven ready"? Are we less than 24 hours into this term and you're already accepting a massive lie that Boris has told. If he goes back to negotiate is he accepting that his deal is not oven ready? that it is not a great deal? that it does indeed place a massive customs check down the Irish sea?

Secondly, why in Gods name would the EU reopen negotiations? How is it in their interest at this stage? They've agreed a deal with May. They've agreed a deal with Boris (albeit the same deal with worse conditions imo). The EU will politely tell him to sign the WA and come back to the table for trade talks or don't sign the deal and don't come back for trade talks. Won't be trade talks if they place physical checks on the Irish border.

There won't be any renegotiation of the WA. Now it's the trade negotiations.