General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

tdf7187

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

LOL how do you NOT know the backstory to that??? If you did you wouldn't be surprised.

YES he did:pac:.



https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/10542744/ken-livingstone-unhelpful-jewish-exit-poll/

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-13/ken-livingstone-identifies-jewish-vote-as-factor-in-labours-poor-showing/

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/ken-livingstone-says-the-jewish-vote-wasn-t-very-helpful-1.494326


He was suspended from Labour for anti semitism earlier in the year didn't you hear?

Worst of all was this



I guess the above is just a smear campaign.

He and Corbyn have been friends for decades.

Corybn has also been friendly with the appalling rabble-rouser George Galloway for decades. IIRC you are Jewish? I can well understand that only 6% of UK Jews planned to vote for Labour.

ILoveYourVibes

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Again, none of that is true.

The EU has stated it is.

ILoveYourVibes

tdf7187 wrote: »

Corybn has also been friendly with the appalling rabble-rouser George Galloway for decades. IIRC you are Jewish? I can well understand that only 6% of UK Jews planned to vote for Labour.

I am.

I would have still voted lab though. I do think they have an issue though.

And can you imagine saying to someone after being told they are jewish that they are 'A concentration camp guard?'

Worst of all was this

Quote:
While leaving a City Hall LGBT reception in February 2005, Livingstone objected to an Evening Standard photographer "harassing" other guests. When Evening Standard journalist Oliver Finegold introduced himself as working for the paper, Livingstone asked if he had been "a German war criminal." When Finegold said that he was Jewish, Livingstone said he was "just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you?" and asserted that he (Finegold) worked for the "reactionary bigots... who supported fascism" at the Daily Mail

I guess the above is just a smear campaign.

And there are not many jews in the north of England. they are mostly in london ...where lab support was strongest.

So blaming jewish voters is out of order and is just another jab from livingstone.

robinph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It isn't a referendum.. If you dismiss 44% in a general election where that party decimated the other parties, you're effectively arguing that a democracy should only have two parties so as to avoid this scenario. I don't want to put words in your mouth but in my mind, that's what it boils down to really.

I'm a fan of geography when it comes to politics. It's why Ireland has MEPs. It's why underpopulated regions can have their say. If the Tories won geographically, then it's theirs. Especially in a GE.

Nope, not saying that the Tories didn't win and shouldn't be in control of things. I was responding to the claim that the majority of the population supported them.

bren2001

Deleted User wrote: »

There won't be any renegotiation of the WA. Now it's the trade negotiations.

Grand. Boris does have a little bit more strength behind him but it's like me fighting Conor McGregor. If I hit the gym for 6 months, it ain't going to make that much of a difference.

Boris will, of course, be stronger than he was in October. It seemed clear to me he'd accept anything in order to come back and say to the British electorate "I got a better deal". That helped him get elected. It'll be interesting to see how strong/good he and his team really are.

The EU will dictate terms, they are the larger economic power. It will be up to Boris and the UK if they accept these terms or not. Will it be quick? No, it cannot be a quick negotiation. This is a precedent setting agreement for any country that wishes to leave. Hence, all 27 EU member states will want to scrutinize every line of it. They will have to sort out fishing right which will be tough. Most importantly (for us), they will have to figure out the Irish border. Plus all of the other stuff. It could easily be 2 years.

Professor Moriarty

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

Boris can now choose to ignore the SNP and also all talk of a border poll. these people like the DUP now have no leverage and in the scheme of things are an irrelevancy.
their tiny complaining voices will barely be heard above the din of a 78 seat majority.

True. In future, any debates outside the Tory party will be irrelevant - like bald men fighting over a comb.

ILoveYourVibes

robinph wrote: »

Nope, not saying that the Tories didn't win and shouldn't be in control of things. I was responding to the claim that the majority of the population supported them.

The majority of a population hardly ever support the elected govt.

A significant amount do compared to the support previous govts have had historically.

FrancieBrady

Somebody referenced the massive majority Jack Lynch had and how that panned out for him.

Often a massive majority can be a bad thing if handled badly. Will the Tories forget that their majority is based on only 40% of the vote, I wonder.

wassie

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

Boris can now choose to ignore the SNP and also all talk of a border poll. these people like the DUP now have no leverage and in the scheme of things are an irrelevancy. Their tiny complaining voices will barely be heard above the din of a 78 seat majority.

And I'd be surprised if Arlene isn't quietly removed - the DUP like to do things behind close doors.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Somebody referenced the massive majority Jack Lynch had and how that panned out for him.

Often a massive majority can be a bad thing if handled badly. Will the Tories forget that their majority is based on only 40% of the vote, I wonder.

It didn't help that he got that majority by eviscerating the tax base of the State.

I loathe the man. Useless goon.

Professor Moriarty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Somebody referenced the massive majority Jack Lynch had and how that panned out for him.

Often a massive majority can be a bad thing if handled badly. Will the Tories forget that their majority is based on only 40% of the vote, I wonder.

43.5%

tdf7187

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It didn't help that he got that majority by eviscerating the tax base of the State.

I loathe the man. Useless goon.

One of the most overrated Irish politicians in history. He did hold the line during the dark days of the early Troubles, would credit him for that.

facehugger99

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

He also supported and met with the ANC at a time when they were regarded as a terrorist organisation. And when the Mail/Express and the UK government felt keeping Mandela locked up was justified, he was campaigning for his release.

But curiously that one is no longer thrown at him.

Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day.

Corbyn was so busy supporting illegal terrorist organisations that statistically he was bound to score a few hits.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It didn't help that he got that majority by eviscerating the tax base of the State.

I loathe the man. Useless goon.

Boris hasn't exactly gotten his without some eviscerating.

just saying, he and the Tories could end up in a very bad place if they handle this mandate badly.

Letwin_Larry

wassie wrote: »

And I'd be surprised if Arlene isn't quietly removed - the DUP like to do things behind close doors.

who cares? sorry not being facetious but outside her own backyard who really cares?
the times have changed, the bus has departed and Arlene and her ilk have been left at the side of the road. the same could be said for the ERG too. who cares?

they had their day in the sun.

for this reason we should be happy.

bren2001

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Boris hasn't exactly gotten his without some eviscerating.

just saying, he and the Tories could end up in a very bad place if they handle this mandate badly.

That's all assuming Labour can get its act together. Remove Corbyn, elected a new leader, move closer to the centre, stop the in-fighting, highlight the massive mistake Brexit is, highlight every error by the Tories, and resemble a functioning party.

That's asking a lot. There isn't a young Tony Blair in their ranks as it stands.

wassie

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

who cares? sorry not being facetious but outside her own backyard who really cares?
the times have changed, the bus has departed and Arlene and her ilk have been left at the side of the road. the same could be said for the ERG too. who cares?

they had their day in the sun.

No offence taken - in fact I think your dead on.

Sir Oxman

Very disappointed but it is more than clear.

This was the Brexit election without a doubt despite the vain hopes other issues would take over.

The Red Wall seats Lab %age drop was almost double the national average and that's all we need to know.

Their parliament is sovereign (as remainers rightly kept repeating) and now that parliament has been given an unequivocal mandate to begin Brexit phase 2.

Many strategic mistakes made by the anti-tory parties but it is what it is.

Maybe Johnson will become the 'moderate' Tory he was touted for being before latching onto the disaster ship that is Brexit for his own gain and once again turn 180 degrees.

Labour - the party Brexit divide between membership and voters was too wide in the heartland Labour seats of the midlands and north.
Jeremy Corbyn must resign quickly none of this hanging on because Labour need to start the planning for 2024/25 now.
It won't happen because the Corbyn part of Labour will fight tooth and nail to keep control of the party - they've waited too long and they are not going to let that go easily.

It's Brexit wot done it.

Enzokk

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

now that Boris has a comfortable working majority, he can now ditch Arlene & Sammy, and also tell the ERG to go for a hike.

We are now likely to see a nicer, warmer, kinder more inclusive Boris aka Mayor of London. Should also make for a softer Brexit, which will suit Ireland & the EU better.

all round this is a good result. more clarity. more certainty/less uncertainty. more pragmatic.

James O'Brien just pointed out that those around him are mostly from 55 Tufton Street which doesn't scream inclusive or kinder. As for the future,

https://twitter.com/RachelSkyNews/status/1205426676320083969?s=20

Just the NHS doing badly again, but somehow now it will get better? The best hope you have if you are in a deprived area of the UK and thought a vote for Johnson is at least a change, hopefully he keeps his promises. For a man that has 5 or 6 children and has been lying all his life, I wouldn't want to bet on that.

MJohnston

Did the Withdrawal Agreement have an early-exit type clause, as as there in some previous iterations? ie. could we see Brexit occurring much earlier than the January deadline, if Boris pushes it through an accelerated Commons schedule?

BonnieSituation

tdf7187 wrote: »

One of the most overrated Irish politicians in history. He did hold the line during the dark days of the early Troubles, would credit him for that.

Ah now, I mean, standing idly by is it? :P

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

Did the Withdrawal Agreement have an early-exit type clause, as as there in some previous iterations? ie. could we see Brexit occurring much earlier than the January deadline, if Boris pushes it through an accelerated Commons schedule?

I asked the same in the Brexit thread and a poster more knowledgeable than me says that at this stage, no. A pity to waste six weeks.

Letwin_Larry

wassie wrote: »

No offence taken - in fact I think your dead on.

i think your average voter Brexiter or not, realises that the DUP and the ERG are an embarrassment.

in their infinite 'er "wisdom" they have decided to push on with their great Brexit project without the constant nuisance of having that lot distracting them with "you dont wanna do it that way!"

actually i think the EU & Dublin will on reflection will feel a sense of relief also. maybe now we can move on a little from this disaster that is Brexit.

a little footnote to Corbyn. if he had come out and campaigned properly against Brexit. i would not be typing this now!
the man is as much use as a chocolate teapot, as an ashtray on a motorbike, as tits on a bull.

tdf7187

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Ah now, I mean, standing idly by is it? :P

Ok, you're one of those. Should have known.

funkey_monkey

Jamies Bryson making thinly veiled references to potential violence - paraphrasing: "political process has been exhausted".

tdf7187

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

a little footnote to Corbyn. if he had come out and campaigned properly against Brexit. i would not be typing this now!
the man is as much use as a chocolate teapot, as an ashtray on a motorbike, as tits on a bull.

The problem with this analysis is that Labour did badly in the largely pro-Brexit seats in the North. So I'm not seeing how Corbyn campaiging properly against Brexit would have changed matters.

Professor Moriarty

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Jamies Bryson making thinly veiled references to potential violence - paraphrasing: "political process has been exhausted".

Let the games begin.

BonnieSituation

Delightful

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1205337825186594817?s=19

The reactions are something else. They get offended by that but live in a country that gave Boris a majority.

Bannasidhe

bren2001 wrote: »

That's all assuming Labour can get its act together. Remove Corbyn, elected a new leader, move closer to the centre, stop the in-fighting, highlight the massive mistake Brexit is, highlight every error by the Tories, and resemble a functioning party.

That's asking a lot. There isn't a young Tony Blair in their ranks as it stands.

Blair?
His legacy is toxic so the last thing the LP needs is another Blair.

Labour hasn't won an GE since 2005, by 2007 Blair had become a liability so he resigned as leader and it has been a catalogue of electoral defeat since - Brown and Milliband were centerists so it can't all be laid at the feet of Corbyn.

BonnieSituation

tdf7187 wrote: »

Ok, you're one of those. Should have known.

What's that?