General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

sid waddell

sid waddell wrote: »

Britain doesn't have uncontrolled, limitless migration. It never has had.

Do you accept that, if the UK did, that that level of migration has the potential to cause "problems"?

J Mysterio wrote: »

Immigration is part of this, and as a country who has had millions leave to go around the world to better themselves, we should be accepting of that. We should also recognise that immigration to Ireland improves the country and strengthens it, much as our ancestors improved and helped build the countries they went to.

It doesn't matter who it is. We cannot have people illegally entering another country.

Yes, refugees and asylum seekers and so forth, but not the mass movement of people violating a country's laws.

10000maniacs

Deleted User wrote: »

Immigration can be a problem.

The idea that nobody can question immigration because there are no negatives whatsoever, is an absurd proposition.

When managed, immigration can be a net positive.

When uncontrolled and limitless, immigration can be a net negative.

That's not racist. That's not xenophobic. That's the reality of the situation.

And whilst there are racists in every country, they shouldn't allow to dictate the political agenda by forcing the rest of us, normal folk, from intelligently discussing the matter and learning the best means to manage migration.

You cannot have limitless numbers of people coming to your country. It dilutes and destroys culture; it puts pressure on public services and infrastructure; and it can even pose a national security risk.

But I wish people would be honest and say I normally vote Labour but I voted for the
Tories this time because of their position on immigration.

J Mysterio

J Mysterio wrote: »

Where are you seeing the 'mass movement of people violating a country's laws'? That hasnt happened in the UK to precipitate this crisis.

You still haven't answered the question.

If that were the case, do you accept that immigration has the potential to cause "problems"?

Lefty Bicek

Shelga wrote: »

Listen, the UK can do as it likes as long as it doesn't affect us. Yes, Brexit is happening, and as long as there isn't a hard border in Ireland, it makes no difference to my life whatsoever what they do.

You didn't mind the close relations between the two countries when it suited your needs to go there and take advantage of them. But now that it is has become inconvenient, you want some kind of unattainable insularity.

LOL at you admitting there is no economic case for Brexit. None. No, it's about more than economics alright- it's about emotion. To hell with logic.

Do not twist my words.

In the first place I never made an economic case for Brexit, nor have I said that the people who actually voted to leave had one at the forefront of their minds either.

That is their prerogative, not yours or mine.

The actual point I made was that you are hiding behind economic cases, but that even if there were a compelling economic case, you would still lash out.

You are proving this point with your own words.

the UK can do as it likes as long as it doesn't affect us.

as long as there isn't a hard border in Ireland, it makes no difference to my life whatsoever

Don't throw petrol on the embers of the Troubles and expect a good outcome.

So you actually only care about what is in the economic interests of the British people, if it doesn't adversely affect you.

Consequently you gave the case for the negative effects of Brexit primacy only in order to make unnecessary remarks about 'a moronic act of self-harm, on an epic scale'.

J Mysterio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Personally, I hope a success of Brexit leads to the rise of Le Pen in France. She believes in the nation-state and, unlike other politicians in France, is unafraid to speak the truth to what has happened the country.

The problem of having several European powerhouses vying against each other as independent nation states is it becomes a little fractious [see WWI and WWII].

It's also true that European countries need to come together to compete against the US, China, BRIC nations etc.

That much should be obvious enough.

Bannasidhe

J Mysterio wrote: »

The ERG are elected MPs standing on the Tory ticket. If they are to be removed, it is encumbent on:

a) the public to not vote for them, or vote for someone else.

b) The Tory party to enforce party discipline.

Neither of these things have happened, so one can only presume that:

a) ERG constituents are happy with their representatives

b) The May Government was too weak and pathetic to enforce discipline and the Johnson government sympathise with the ERG.

Either way, Momentum have roundly failed as has their candidate. The ERG have won.

Yes, except that given the fact that the ERG do not publish it's members (nor are they legally obliged to) and the only was of trying to work out who might actually be in it is to investigate which MPs allocated a portion of their office expenses to cover the costs of the ERG it's not exactly information readily available to the electorate now is it?

The secret membership of the ERG won so that's ok.
Is that really where we are?

Jimmy Garlic

J Mysterio wrote: »

Immigration is part of this, and as a country who has had millions leave to go around the world to better themselves, we should be accepting of that. We should also recognise that immigration to Ireland improves the country and strengthens it, much as our ancestors improved and helped build the countries they went to.

No problem with hard working people who use the right channels to come here and have a mind to integrate in this country. A lot of what we got dole tourists who want us to change to suit their various (often pre -medieval) outlook on life.

The vast majority of Irish people who left integrated and contributed to the countries that they arrived in. They couldn't and didn't mooch their way around the world. It was sink or swim.

ancapailldorcha

The Plague banned for personal abuse.

Bannasidhe

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Who won the election? The ERG party. No ERG members lost their seat. So the public elected the ERG. Labour/Momentum/Corbyn don't matter now. They might as well stay in bed. The Tories, with the ERG running through their veins, have absolute power.

But as we don't know who exactly is in the ERG you have no idea if that is true.
The Tories lost half their seats in Scotland - can you be absolutely sure none of those MPs were in the ERG?

J Mysterio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You still haven't answered the question.

If that were the case, do you accept that immigration has the potential to cause "problems"?

If anything isn't managed correctly, it can cause problems. There's no doubt the UK handled immigration badly for some time (and continues to do so, despite all the tough talk - the UK needs immigrant labour). 'Ghettoization' etc. is due to poor immigration management. This is not the fault of the immigrants however. It is a fault of succesive governments for not ensuring proper immigration procedures and providing the accompanying services and agencies needed to aid with subsequent integration.

UK have always been able to control extra EU immigration, but chose not to. It is this which seems to have caused the most consternation.

Intra EU immigration has seen people with largely the same outlook, values, religion, and even skin colour come. Statistics show that people from the EU don't really want to come anymore though. It will mostly now be those bothersome people from India, Pakistan, Africa, South East Asia who have an interest - those the UK always had a veto on.

Never mind the door policy, the UK have treated their own people e.g. Windrush unspeakably badly. 'Hostile environment' says it all really. The UK is now quite nasty from the top down. A racist buffoon as PM and a nasty witch as home secretary, more than ready to continue May's toxic legacy.

J Mysterio

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yes, except that given the fact that the ERG do not publish it's members (nor are they legally obliged to) and the only was of trying to work out who might actually be in it is to investigate which MPs allocated a portion of their office expenses to cover the costs of the ERG it's not exactly information readily available to the electorate now is it?

The secret membership of the ERG won so that's ok.
Is that really where we are?

That's not what I said is it? The ERG are allowed to continue as they are as the public returned them in the vote and gave the party of which they are a consituent part a thumping majority. Indeed, the PM is very close to them politically and personally.

I don't like the ERG politicians or policies - I'm quite against them - but it seems the UK public like them quite a lot.

Lefty Bicek

hotmail.com wrote: »

I don't know how many times this has been said on here and yet people still think Brexit feelings only started in 2016.

It's true the phrase Brexit is new but the anti EU feeling runs long and strong in the UK.

Irish people who are already experts on America, now want to be experts on Britain.

It's unbelievable how ignorant people are of these currents in British political life.

To take the specific case of Brexit as we know it - everyone wants to yak on about UKIP, or Tory Eurosceptics, or the ERG.

No-one wants to acknowledge The People's Pledge.

Poor Dennis Skinner lost his seat to the big bad Tories. Skinner a declared Leaver.

Did Bill Cash or Norman Tebbit write Tony Benn's speech ?

Of course not.

... The argument is nothing to do with whether we should get more maternity leave from Madame Papandreou [a European Commissioner] than from Madame Thatcher...

...Nationalism is built out of frustration that people feel when they cannot get their way through the ballot box...

...How can one be anti-European when one is born in Europe? It is like saying that one is anti-British if one does not agree with the Chancellor of the Exchequer...

... It is a democratic argument and it should be decisive in a democratic Chamber.

- Tony Benn, House of Commons, 20 November 1991.


A lot of people on here would do well to put their right to an opinion to one side for a moment, and exercise their more useful right to be informed, instead.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

Lord Heseltine has come out and conceded defeat; stating that the UK will be "leaving Europe" and there is no need to fight on.

It took 3.5-years, but the People's Vote campaign has finally given up.

Thank goodness for that. As Prime Minister Johnson said yesterday, it's time both sides came together and "let the healing begin". This could have happened a long time ago, but Remainers just would not give up.

You do realise that the remain campaign never really got anywhere?

It was the Tories, including Johnson, that held up Brexit for 3.5 years. People like JRMm the ERG, IDS and Johnson refused to back TM WA. They claimed it was because of the splitting of NI, the payment of a divorce bill.

But then finally, after their man got to be leader, they agreed to all of it.

So stop this nonsense that anybody but the Tories were to blame for the delay in delivering Brexit. They had no plan before the ref, made no plan prior to triggering A50 and the likes of David Davies still have no plan. Johnson stormed out of the cabinet because he refused to carry out the will of the people, but now bestrides the country as the man who will deliver it.

It wasn't remainers causing the problem, it was Brexiteers.

The oddest thing to hear from voters is those whi say they voted for Johnson to get get brexit done, seemingly totally unaware of the last 3 years and how much work Johnson had done to undermine the Tory PM at every step.

liamtech

https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-jeremy-corbyn-to-remain-as-labour-leader-for-couple-of-months-11886209

Jeremy Corbyn will remain as Labour leader for a "couple of months" into the New Year before handing over to his successor with "dignity", his close ally John McDonnell has said.

Despite pressure for Labour's top duo to quit their posts immediately following the party's bruising general election result on Thursday, the shadow chancellor argued both he and Mr Corbyn should stay for an "interim" period.

Christ..

Really dont know what to make of this

Bannasidhe

J Mysterio wrote: »

That's not what I said is it? The ERG are allowed to continue as they are as the public returned them in the vote and gave the party of which they are a consituent part a thumping majority. Indeed, the PM is very close to them politically and personally.

I don't like the ERG politicians or policies - I'm quite against them - but it seems the UK public like them quite a lot.

I would say the vast majority of the public have no idea who the ERG are or what they do tbh.

Either way, the fact remains that just because they 'won' does not mean that it's ok for one party to have an ideologically driven group influence policy while complaining that another party has an ideologically driven group influencing policy.

They are two sides of the same coin.

J Mysterio

liamtech wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-jeremy-corbyn-to-remain-as-labour-leader-for-couple-of-months-11886209



Christ..

Really dont know what to make of this

They should of course go now, but it's really largely irrelevant if it is in two, three months.

They have blown it and the Tories can pass whatever policy they like, virtually unopposed.

Labour needs to be completely reborn and they will need some time to consider how that might be done.

stefanovich

J Mysterio wrote: »

They should of course go now, but it's really largely irrelevant if it is in two, three months.

They have blown it and the Tories can pass whatever policy they like, virtually unopposed.

Labour needs to be completely reborn and they will need some time to consider how that might be done.

Labour needs to move back to the center. Everyone does really! Find other ways of exciting yourselves.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

Labour needs to move back to the center. Everyone does really! Find other ways of exciting yourselves.

Now that Johnson has earned a comprehensive majority, it means he's not beholden to the eccentricities of the ERG.

Johnson will also wish to try and keep as many "Labour-lent" votes on board, so we may see a return to Cameronian politics in the coming years.

Whether it's the Brexit Party or Far-Left Corbynism or Nullification Lib Dems, the extremes have been killed off at this election.

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

Now that Johnson has earned a comprehensive majority, it means he's not beholden to the eccentricities of the ERG.

Johnson will also wish to try and keep as many "Labour-lent" votes on board, so we may see a return to Cameronian politics in the coming years.

Whether it's the Brexit Party or Far-Left Corbynism or Nullification Lib Dems, the extremes have been killed off at this election.

Yeah. I'm really hopeful. I think this is actually the best possible outcome and I think he'll do a brilliant job.

liamtech

J Mysterio wrote: »

They should of course go now, but it's really largely irrelevant if it is in two, three months.

They have blown it and the Tories can pass whatever policy they like, virtually unopposed.

Labour needs to be completely reborn and they will need some time to consider how that might be done.

I dont think it is irrelevant now - i think its embarrassing tbh.

Its embarrassing when you look at who Labour has lost to, under the Corbyn and McDonnell

And I think it is shameful, considering the degree by which they have lost

I think it is relevant - they should go immediately, and have an interim leader

Why should Jeremy Corbyn be allowed to remain for any period of time, "handing over to his successor with dignity"?

They have no place in deciding where the party goes from here

Letwin_Larry

it's going to be facinating what shape and colour this new Tory Govt. takes on.
my guess is Boris will show his more Liberal Centrist side.
given his cosy majority of 80 he can choose to sideline the ERG, and the DUP are yesterday's news.

expect a lot more investment in Northern areas where the Tories have broken new ground.

Leonard Hofstadter

If he goes back to sensible centre right politics once Brexit is done, like the ones Cameron generally had when he was PM, he could turn out to be quite alright.

He'll need to stay towards the centre and not give into the hard right in his own party if he is to ensure that all those new voters up North and in the Midlands stay with them for the election in 2024.

For what it's worth, I think he could easily get in again if he stays close to the centre and doesn't erode workers' rights and invests in the areas that the Tories have deprived/destroyed every time they have been in power, especially if Labour decide to put in another Corbynite (which they are daft enough to do), hard left politics just doesn't win votes in the UK.

Letwin_Larry

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

If he goes back to sensible centre right politics once Brexit is done, like the ones Cameron generally had when he was PM, he could turn out to be quite alright.

He'll need to stay towards the centre and not give into the hard right in his own party if he is to ensure that all those new voters up North and in the Midlands stay with them for the election in 2024.

For what it's worth, I think he could easily get in again if he stays close to the centre and doesn't erode workers' rights and invests in the areas that the Tories have deprived/destroyed every time they have been in power, especially if Labour decide to put in another Corbynite (which they are daft enough to do), hard left politics just doesn't win votes in the UK.

i agree Boris has it within his power to eradicate Lab from the body-politic in the UK. already they have been wiped out in Scotland and in huge swathes of the North.
A sensible, centrist, kinder, more compassionate Tory party is all that is needed and Lab are finished as a political force.

what a turnaround it has been!

and this from a man people gleefully 'predicted' would be the shortest-lived PM in history. you couldn't blame him if he is continuously grinning from ear to ear.

Leroy42

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

i agree Boris has it within his power to eradicate Lab from the body-politic in the UK. already they have been wiped out in Scotland and in huge swathes of the North.
A sensible, centrist, kinder, more compassionate Tory party is all that is needed and Lab are finished as a political force.

what a turnaround it has been!

and this from a man people gleefully 'predicted' would be the shortest-lived PM in history. you couldn't blame him if he is continuously grinning from ear to ear.

To be fair, if the opposition parties had been even mildly competent, then in all likelihood he would have been.

If failed to deliver Brexit by his promised 31 Oct. He should have been made squirm about that. Instead, through I can only imagine a mixture of hubris and arrogance, they handed him the only lifeline he had left despite all the polls and saying that it was a bad idea.

Posters made their predictions, I assume, based on the logic of the situation. There was no way of knowing just how poor the other parties were going to be and how incredibly unprepared they were for an election they continued to state was what they wanted.

rossie1977

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

it's going to be facinating what shape and colour this new Tory Govt. takes on.
my guess is Boris will show his more Liberal Centrist side.
given his cosy majority of 80 he can choose to sideline the ERG, and the DUP are yesterday's news.

expect a lot more investment in Northern areas where the Tories have broken new ground.

Liberal, centrist side. Johnson has made his career on lies and conspiracy theories even before getting into politics. This whole Brexit thing is based on lies and conspiracies mostly from Johnson and Cummings and basically amounts to 'everything wrong in the UK is because of the EU and Johnny Foreigner'

Individuals and far rights groups have praised Johnson and not once has he condemned then. As bad as Trump is he didn't want the KKK endorsing him.

Why now suddenly would he change political direction when it's working for them successfully? History has taught us to expect more of the same. Cummings and Johnson are clearly going to double down now. They already have identified the enemies and majority of people have bought into it so the next step is to really ram it home.

Sonny678

The big problem for Johnston , and who ever wins the white house , and Macron in France , and the new leader of Germany and whoever wins the Irish elections next year , the big issue is the world wide recession that is around the corner. There has been 7 recessions in the last 50 years. We have had 9 years of economic growth. Most ecomomic experts are predicting a recession in autumn 2020 or 2021. Its not a question of if there will be recession in early 2020s , its just a question of when and how bad it will be.

Lets say its a normal recession. The problem is most people , majority ordinary of people dont see massive benefits to their lifes when the economy is growing. However in recession ordinary people do feel the pinch.
In Uk with incomes not increasing , shortage of house , poverty widespread in many parts of the country , issues in NHS , throw in a recession into mix well its not good for Johnston or whoever is in power in US or Germany or Ireland.

Tories in recession eg Thatcher and Cameron. They just slash and burn with cuts. Will Johnston change this policy and become a more FDR style politician. I doubt it. How is Johnston going to invest in northern areas when the country is in recession. Hes not going to. And what happens if we have another 2008 style great recession. Which cannot be ruled out as many of the underlying problems that caused 2008 have never been sorted. Euro is still an issue , if say Italy becomes the greece of 2020s well then its a massive problem for the EU. The American economy also has high debt and many underlying problems. So has Britian , the countries debt has increased dramatically under Tories and British ecomoy is to reliant on the city and london. And the big elephant in the room is China, if China was to slump dramatically when then we would have something worse then 2008 and then all bets are off. The **** will really hit the fan then.

Tories have won since 2010 with economic growth. 2019 to 2024 will have a decline of the economy , a recession thats a fact. How will Johnston deal with that. And we havent mentioned Brexit. The negotations with trade deals etc for Britian will take years and years and take guts of 2020s to sort out. And lets say Brexit has a negative impact on the economy and the vast majority of economic experts world wide believe it will . And lets say Brexit really has a drastic negative on British economy. The truth is no one really knows how bad Brexit will effect on British economy. But if it those have a hugely negative impact , which cannot be ruled out , along with world wide recession thats not good for Johnston.

And if Brexit is a massive disruptive and negative impact on British economy and peoples every day lifes. This bad news for the Tories. The Tories completely own Brexit now. If it goes bad it will be associated with them. The media will blame Europe and Ireland and whoever. But Brexit is the Tories now for better or worse. If it really impacts the Brits badly, thats not good for Johnston. Johnston is now the Daddy of Brexit. And if it is a disaster that many expect , Johnston will pay politically.

A recession and the impact on British economy will be massive issue for Johnston to deal with. We know recession always hits ordinary people negatively. The likelihood of these northern labour voters sticking with Boris when the inevitable recession breaks out. Its not believeable that will happen. Brexit will have occured. So Johnston wouldnt have that. So people saying Johnston will be in power for ten years seems to me as wishful thinking.

Whoever won in Uk and whoever wins in US or Ireland are taking on econmies on the verge of a sharp decline. That will effect their popularities. Johnstons acting the clown with cute dogs and so might get him elected in a time of economic growth, but in a recession , his popularity and any leaders popularity will decline.

Same for US, if Trump wins , a recession hitting the US will lead to his popularity plummeting further. And Democrats should be a shoe in 2024. Thats been thread of US politics for 40 years. The republicans run the economy into the ground eg Reagan and Bush snr late 80s - 1992 , W Bush 2004 to 08 and the Democrats have to come in and clean up the economy afterwards eg Clinton 92 to 2000 , Obama 2008 to 2016. If Trump wins that trend sud continue.

In Britian , Tories have never won 5 elections in a row ever..Brits seem to like to change parties every 10 to 15 years and give that party a decade are more in power..
Tories were in power from 1979 to 1997. 18 years
Laboour were in power from 1997 to 2010 13 years
Tories in power from 2010 to possibly 2024 . 14 years.


So with Brexit, world wide recession and no Tory gov ever winning 5 in a row elections. And labour will have a leader who doesnt have the baggage of Corbyn. This idea that these northern voters who truthfully all their lifes despised the Tories are going keep voting Tory , is not credible. The idea that Johnston is going to do anything positive for North England is not credible.

And all these pundits and people predicting 10 more years of Tory rule seems to be bit ignorant. Ignorant of the elephant in the room. The event that is going to impact everything politicaly in the Uk , in the US , in Europe , in Ireland in the next couple of years..That is a recession.

Letwin_Larry

rossie1977 wrote: »

Liberal, centrist side. Johnson has made his career on lies and conspiracy theories even before getting into politics. This whole Brexit thing is based on lies and conspiracies mostly from Johnson and Cummings and basically amounts to 'everything wrong in the UK is because of the EU and Johnny Foreigner'

Individuals and far rights groups have praised Johnson and not once has he condemned then. As bad as Trump is he didn't want the KKK endorsing him.

Why now suddenly would he change political direction when it's working for them successfully? History has taught us to expect more of the same. Cummings and Johnson are clearly going to double down now. They already have identified the enemies and majority of people have bought into it so the next step is to really ram it home.

i dont know where you are getting your 'er 'info' from. it sounds like something from Marxist-Socialist Weekly, or The Trotsky Gazette tbh.

if there's one thing we know about Boris, then it's he is no hostage to political ideology.
Boris is an opportunist. he is guided by political expediency not ideology. i dont think he is even a firm believer in Brexit, but it suited his ambitions to jump on that bandwagon.

if it suits his political ambitions to be nice to them up North, then that's what he'll do. if it suits Boris to give Scotland a referendum, then they'll get one, if not then they can "take the high road".

Sonny678

Sonny678 wrote: »

The big problem for Johnston , and who ever wins the white house , and Macron in France , and the new leader of Germany and whoever wins the Irish elections next year , the big issue is the world wide recession that is around the corner. There has been 7 recessions in the last 50 years. We have had 9 years of economic growth. Most ecomomic experts are predicting a recession in autumn 2020 or 2021. Its not a question of if there will be recession in early 2020s , its just a question of when and how bad it will be.

Lets say its a normal recession. The problem is most people , majority ordinary of people dont see massive benefits to their lifes when the economy is growing. However in recession ordinary people do feel the pinch.
In Uk with incomes not increasing , shortage of house , poverty widespread in many parts of the country , issues in NHS , throw in a recession into mix well its not good for Johnston or whoever is in power in US or Germany or Ireland.

Tories in recession eg Thatcher and Cameron. They just slash and burn with cuts. Will Johnston change this policy and become a more FDR style politician. I doubt it. How is Johnston going to invest in northern areas when the country is in recession. Hes not going to. And what happens if we have another 2008 style great recession. Which cannot be ruled out as many of the underlying problems that caused 2008 have never been sorted. Euro is still an issue , if say Italy becomes the greece of 2020s well then its a massive problem for the EU. The American economy also has high debt and many underlying problems. So has Britian , the countries debt has increased dramatically under Tories and British ecomoy is to reliant on the city and london. And the big elephant in the room is China, if China was to slump dramatically when then we would have something worse then 2008 and then all bets are off. The **** will really hit the fan then.

Tories have won since 2010 with economic growth. 2019 to 2024 will have a decline of the economy , a recession thats a fact. How will Johnston deal with that. And we havent mentioned Brexit. The negotations with trade deals etc for Britian will take years and years and take guts of 2020s to sort out. And lets say Brexit has a negative impact on the economy and the vast majority of economic experts world wide believe it will . And lets say Brexit really has a drastic negative on British economy. The truth is no one really knows how bad Brexit will effect on British economy. But if it those have a hugely negative impact , which cannot be ruled out , along with world wide recession thats not good for Johnston.

And if Brexit is a massive disruptive and negative impact on British economy and peoples every day lifes. This bad news for the Tories. The Tories completely own Brexit now. If it goes bad it will be associated with them. The media will blame Europe and Ireland and whoever. But Brexit is the Tories now for better or worse. If it really impacts the Brits badly, thats not good for Johnston. Johnston is now the Daddy of Brexit. And if it is a disaster that many expect , Johnston will pay politically.

A recession and the impact on British economy will be massive issue for Johnston to deal with. We know recession always hits ordinary people negatively. The likelihood of these northern labour voters sticking with Boris when the inevitable recession breaks out. Its not believeable that will happen. Brexit will have occured. So Johnston wouldnt have that. So people saying Johnston will be in power for ten years seems to me as wishful thinking.

Whoever won in Uk and whoever wins in US or Ireland are taking on econmies on the verge of a sharp decline. That will effect their popularities. Johnstons acting the clown with cute dogs and so might get him elected in a time of economic growth, but in a recession , his popularity and any leaders popularity will decline.

Same for US, if Trump wins , a recession hitting the US will lead to his popularity plummeting further. And Democrats should be a shoe in 2024. Thats been thread of US politics for 40 years. The republicans run the economy into the ground eg Reagan and Bush snr late 80s - 1992 , W Bush 2004 to 08 and the Democrats have to come in and clean up the economy afterwards eg Clinton 92 to 2000 , Obama 2008 to 2016. If Trump wins that trend sud continue.

In Britian , Tories have never won 5 elections in a row ever..Brits seem to like to change parties every 10 to 15 years and give that party a decade are more in power..
Tories were in power from 1979 to 1997. 18 years
Laboour were in power from 1997 to 2010 13 years
Tories in power from 2010 to possibly 2024 . 14 years.


So with Brexit, world wide recession and no Tory gov ever winning 5 in a row elections. And labour will have a leader who doesnt have the baggage of Corbyn. This idea that these northern voters who truthfully all their lifes despised the Tories are going keep voting Tory , is not credible. The idea that Johnston is going to do anything positive for North England is not credible.

And all these pundits and people predicting 10 more years of Tory rule seems to be bit ignorant. Ignorant of the elephant in the room. The event that is going to impact everything politicaly in the Uk , in the US , in Europe , in Ireland in the next couple of years..That is a recession.

China is still totally dependent on the western markets for their consumer products, so any recession in China will be as a result of a western recession, rather than the other way round. But yes, a recession happening during the Brexit disentanglement and renegotiation phase is likely to hit Britain harder than it would have before or after the Brexit process.

rossie1977

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

i dont know where you are getting your 'er 'info' from. it sounds like something from Marxist-Socialist Weekly, or The Trotsky Gazette tbh.

if there's one thing we know about Boris, then it's he is no hostage to political ideology.
Boris is an opportunist. he is guided by political expediency not ideology. i dont think he is even a firm believer in Brexit, but it suited his ambitions to jump on that bandwagon.

if it suits his political ambitions to be nice to them up North, then that's what he'll do. if it suits Boris to give Scotland a referendum, then they'll get one, if not then they can "take the high road".

What are you talking about. Johnson has been peddling europhobia since the 1980s. It was him that started the whole EU wants to ban prawn cocktail crisps nonsense. He didn't just hop aboard the train, he has been the one driving it all along. You don't have to read a communist manifesto to know that or where he stands politically, it's been plain obvious for decades despite the facade he puts on in public.

You make it our like Johnson is now King or something and graciously allow certain things to happen.

Here is my prediction. In 3 years once the electorate realise he is full of hot air and the goofy loveable rouge act has worn thin you are going to have a powder keg of emotion unleashed in the UK.

Letwin_Larry

rossie1977 wrote: »

What are you talking about. Johnson has been peddling europhobia since the 1980s. It was him that started the whole EU wants to ban prawn cocktail crisps nonsense. He didn't just hop aboard the train, he has been the one driving it all along. You don't have to read a communist manifesto to know that or where he stands politically, it's been plain obvious for decades despite the facade he puts on in public.

You make it our like Johnson is now King or something and graciously allow certain things to happen.

Here is my prediction. In 3 years once the electorate realise he is full of hot air and the goofy loveable rouge act has worn thin you are going to have a powder keg of emotion unleashed in the UK.

Johnson has been peddling all sorts of stuff. it's called writing a column and following a particular editorial line, and being handsomely paid to so do.
if your 'er 'predictions' are anything like the majority of the predictions on this forum, you'll forgive me if i give Paddy Power a wide berth.