Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)
Comments
-
If they were Lib Dem - they were probably remain leaning so - probably more labour in my mind - if they switch
well it looks like Ms. Swinson has Corbyn more in her sights than Boris
she is highly critical of what she (rightly) sees as corbyn's lack of leadership.
Corbyn has tried to steer a middle-ground on the B question. but by sitting in the middle of the road, his party is in real danger of being run over.0 -
I had observed some video about the NHS recently on Twitter. It was projected out in public onto a NHS hospital namely St.Thomas' Hospital in London. It was saying something that Boris Johnson paid £6k in taxpayers money to pay for a lavish launch party for the think tank set up to privatize the NHS for private profits from the U.S.
https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1196685691964534785/video/1
There was a lady who made comments on this video. She is from Chicago; Illinois and remarked by saying that the health system there would be making a big mistake if it takes over the NHS via Trump's & Johnson's free-trade deal. She said that since Trump taken it over with his Healthcare plans; it's now become one of the most expensive healthcare systems in the world.
If you wanted to pay for a visit to an A&E Department in the U.S.; it would set you back about $300+ for one visit. She had said that she suffered from food allergies. This is a big problem for her because U.S. food companies are not legally required to display allergen information about food going into their manufacturing process while it's mixed with other allergens. She wanted to get herself an epi-pen to prevent anaphylactic shock. But despite her insurance policy; she would have to pay $600 for one of those epi-pens even though she says that she is told by the brokers that she is covered on 'good' health insurance. She avoids the epi-pens because she has to get anti-histamine pills instead as a cheaper solution to prevent her getting anaphylactic shock.
She also says that her child gets type one diabetes. She pays over $20k a year for treatment for her son's diabetes. But the insurance companies who charge her this amount is for triple the amount because they say that her son's condition is known as a pre-existing condition.
Here are her tweets
https://twitter.com/PargsP/status/1197019732328800256
https://twitter.com/PargsP/status/1197245036943028226
https://twitter.com/PargsP/status/1197245204526489602
https://twitter.com/PargsP/status/1197246697333837824
About the video itself; it was said in it's comments that the video should be brought up by the main broadcasters in the UK to let people know in the lead up to voting day on the 12th of December what their prime minister was doing to help set up this think tank for the NHS. Was this particular fact about the £6k paid for it's launch party not known about by the British media yet? Do you think a video like this one in the tweet showing it would be able to comply with broadcasting rules from Ofcom?0 -
More excellent polls for Prime Minister Johnson.
I know Labour supporters like to mention polls before the last election, and how May lost - but that was all May's doing. She was the worst campaigner - period.
With Johnson at the helm, we can expect a strong delivery of a Majority Conservative Party to - Get Brexit Done.Boris Johnson is on course for a 64-seat majority having successfully “squeezed” the Brexit party, new analysis claims.
The Conservatives are currently polling at 42.8 per cent support, which looks set to deliver the party 357 seats.
The poll of polls by Electoral Calculus found that the election seems to be split down Leave and Remain lines, taking in research from five different surveys from Nov 14 to 19, polling over 7,500 people.
Martin Baxter, managing director of the political forecasting website, said: “On the Leave side, the Conservatives have successfully squeezed the Brexit party, notably after the stand-down of Brexit candidates in Conservative-held seats.”
However, the research seems to suggest that Labour are “finding the going a bit harder on the Remain side”.
Jeremy Corbyn's party are currently polling at 30 per cent support, 11 points down from the 2017 election, losing them a predicted 55 seats.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »More excellent polls for Prime Minister Johnson.
I know Labour supporters like to mention polls before the last election, and how May lost - but that was all May's doing. She was the worst campaigner - period.
With Johnson at the helm, we can expect a strong delivery of a Majority Conservative Party to - Get Brexit Done.
Calm down, every poll will look good for the Tories until election day. It was the same as 2017 and the Tories are trying to run a Brexit election when people will start to want to talk about other priorities.
In any case they should be winning comfortably, they have major newspapers behind them and it seems the BBC and they have a funding advantage as well. So anything but a majority will be a shock.
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1198282738228445190?s=20
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1198261302898176000?s=200 -
Deleted User wrote: »More excellent polls for Prime Minister Johnson.
I know Labour supporters like to mention polls before the last election, and how May lost - but that was all May's doing. She was the worst campaigner - period.
With Johnson at the helm, we can expect a strong delivery of a Majority Conservative Party to - Get Brexit Done.
Honestly, if the polls continue this way, I think people should be able to approach Brexit from a more contented position; Lib-Lab and friends have made the case for Remain (in various forms), fought the good fight and (if we assume the polling holds, or even presume a moderate narrowing) may well be unable to convince enough of the population. Conversely, a Conservative majority, even a very modest one, gives them complete ownership over what is to follow and exonerates any of the opposition from being held culpable for an insufficiently Brexity Brexit. I think the big trick that people might be missing though is that the election is for 5 years of governance, not just for Brexit and the discomfort arising from an economic reconfiguration post Brexit combined with a Tory majority could well provide scope for another sweep of British public services.0 -
Advertisement
-
At this stage the Tories deserve to win and make a hames of it. Let them deal with it and we will see how wonderful the Brexit Trade Deals are in reality. What was it, twelve months to get Trade Deals in place? Yes, that is the naivete of what we are witnessing.
But when the MSM in UK is behind the Tories, there isn't much that can be done really anymore. BTW who reads papers now? Oh yes, sorry those who buy them and will not diverge from their rag of choice.
So for once in my life I want the Tories to win and pick up their own dirt.
No doubt in five or fewer years hence there will be mayhem again, Corbyn will be gone and Labour will actually have to clean it up. But look...it is all just speculation at this stage.
I still think Tories will win. But secretly hoping Johnson loses his seat though..... What are the chances!0 -
Deleted User wrote: »More excellent polls for Prime Minister Johnson.
I know Labour supporters like to mention polls before the last election, and how May lost - but that was all May's doing. She was the worst campaigner - period.
With Johnson at the helm, we can expect a strong delivery of a Majority Conservative Party to - Get Brexit Done.
another poll suggests the Tories have a 19 point lead.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/toriestake-19-point-lead-over-20945841
however YouGov showing a 12 point difference.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/11/06/political-trackers-5-6-nov-update
it's a cliché but there's only 1 poll that counts.0 -
No Corbyn bounce from the tv debate or the manifesto launch, at least at the moment.
The UK is on course to vote in a Tory government with a majority. Brexit will happen in January and the Labour Party will undergo a leadership contest.
The next focus from an Irish point of view will turn to the North and how the Unionist people react to Brexit.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »More excellent polls for Prime Minister Johnson.
I know Labour supporters like to mention polls before the last election, and how May lost - but that was all May's doing. She was the worst campaigner - period.
With Johnson at the helm, we can expect a strong delivery of a Majority Conservative Party to - Get Brexit Done.
Boris has been shi7 at campaigning so far, he is just lucky with Labour.0 -
"THIS IS HIM HERE".
Turns out the South African gentleman who quizzed corbyn hard on antisemitism is a tory activist who has a rather successful record of appearing on Question Time. Apparently lodged a complaint against corbyn to the parliamentary commission in 2017 which was dismissed. Have a feeling there were one or two labour plants among the audience too but i didnt see any of their contributions leading the bbc news afterwards.
https://twitter.com/MatesJacob/status/1198026647410229248?s=20
I think the bbc should be made to explain how a show that is meant to feature local audiences can have one guy appear 4 times in 2 years.0 -
Advertisement
-
Joe_ Public wrote: »I think the bbc should be made to explain how a show that is meant to feature local audiences can have one guy appear 4 times in 2 years.
That's par for the course with Question Time. Here's former UKIP candidate Billy Mitchell on the show 4 times where he regularly hecked the SNP:
The man himself claimed the BBC invited him on to the show:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-invited-me-because-it-lacks-rightwing-voices-v3l2j6w09He said the BBC had been aware of his political views because he applied for the programme in 2013 and 2016 before two appearances in Stirling - although he admitted having "sneaked in" to the Kilmarnock audience in 2017. He added that the BBC sent him "offers for tickets all the time."
The BBC said that the programme did occasionally invite people to ensure a balance of views but denied that this had happened with Mr Mitchell.
Hard to know which BBC show has more plants, Gardeners' World or Question Time.0 -
Here's hoping labour activists on the ground can do the right thing here:
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1198361884191264770?s=200 -
19 point lead and the Tories haven't even released their manifesto yet.The news comes as Boris Johnson launches the Tory election manifesto on Sunday, a moment seen by many Conservative MPs as the most dangerous of the campaign. It was Theresa May’s botched manifesto in 2017, which included an unpopular social care policy dubbed the “dementia tax”, that played a major part in the collapse in her poll ratings.
The Tory share of the vote now stands at 47%, with Labour on 28% and the Lib Dems falling back to 12%. Also struggling is the Brexit party, which has collapsed to 3%. Underlying the Tory lead is the party’s success in attracting support from Leave voters: three-quarters of them say they would vote Conservative.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/23/tories-renewed-poll-boost-brexit-party-candidates-pull-out-opinium-observer0 -
Faisal Islam picked up on some interesting stats the other day about the difference between how important Europe is to voters now, compared to previous campaigns:
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1197842018241830914
Essentially over the course of a decade the UK has gone from seeing Britain's place in Europe as utterly irrelevant to their daily lives, to now seeing it as the single most important issue of the day. Quite an extraordinary transformation.
The recent polls showing a big Tory lead - assuming they're accurate - would appear to confirm that most voters going into the election have Brexit on their mind over everything else. As long as Johnson keeps ringing that Brexit bell at every opportunity in the debates, seemingly that will drown out everything else that's been heard as far as most voters are concerned.
If Johnson is able to get his deal done in January I think historians of the future will lambast those who kept voting down compromise positions that could have at least led to a softer Brexit. I'm thinking particularly of how Ken Clarke came agonisingly close to getting a customs union amendment passed. I bet the DUP sorely regret not supporting that now.0 -
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »Faisal Islam picked up on some interesting stats the other day about the difference between how important Europe is to voters now, compared to previous campaigns:
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1197842018241830914
Essentially over the course of a decade the UK has gone from seeing Britain's place in Europe as utterly irrelevant to their daily lives, to now seeing it as the single most important issue of the day. Quite an extraordinary transformation.
The recent polls showing a big Tory lead - assuming they're accurate - would appear to confirm that most voters going into the election have Brexit on their mind over everything else. As long as Johnson keeps ringing that Brexit bell at every opportunity in the debates, seemingly that will drown out everything else that's been heard as far as most voters are concerned.
If Johnson is able to get his deal done in January I think historians of the future will lambast those who kept voting down compromise positions that could have at least led to a softer Brexit. I'm thinking particularly of how Ken Clarke came agonisingly close to getting a customs union amendment passed. I bet the DUP sorely regret not supporting that now.
I suppose the question is what would that figure be if dave hadnt unleashed the brexit hounds of hell in 2015? How many would be prioritising europe if there'd been no referendum and subsequent fall out?
It does seem indisputable that this is a brexit election alright, even though they said that too in 2017 and it then turned out to pivot on other things. I do suspect lots of people convince themselves brexit is all that matters because the msm tells them so. Every time you switch on sky news you are confronted by the big banner "the brexit election" across the screen, just in case you were minded to think instead about healthcare or how your country was being run into the ground.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »I suppose the question is what would that figure be if dave hadnt unleashed the brexit hounds of hell in 2015? How many would be prioritising europe if there'd been no referendum and subsequent fall out?
It does seem indisputable that this is a brexit election alright, even though they said that too in 2017 and it then turned out to pivot on other things. I do suspect lots of people convince themselves brexit is all that matters because the msm tells them so. Every time you switch on sky news you are confronted by the big banner "the brexit election" across the screen, just in case you were minded to think instead about healthcare or how your country was being run into the ground.
Other polls though suggest that the UK public has virtually zero interest in politics and most would struggle to even name their local MP.
The whole thing is a bizarre and surreal paradox : a politically illiterate and apathetic electorate prepared to send their country over the edge of a cliff over a subject they weren't even interested in in 2015.
(There would be those who would argue though that the British public's political ignorance and apathy may well be the main driving force behind the Brexit shambles.....such people would be wide open to being manipulated by their fake news media).0 -
Other polls though suggest that the UK public has virtually zero interest in politics and most would struggle to even name their local MP.
The whole thing is a bizarre and surreal paradox : a politically illiterate and apathetic electorate prepared to send their country over the edge of a cliff over a subject they weren't even interested in in 2015.
(There would be those who would argue though that the British public's political ignorance and apathy may well be the main driving force behind the Brexit shambles.....such people would be wide open to being manipulated by their fake news media).
I wonder is the uk any fundamentally different from anywhere? In that people who have no interest in politics wont be at all shy in bellowing out their opinions come election time. The dominant narrative that i can see is a lack of trust plague on all houses but as that is being largely put forward by a media that seems at least equally untrustworthy to me, i find the whole thing a bit of a clusterfcuk really.
I think the turnout for this election will be interesting. A lower turn out would seem likely which you'd imagine might favour the tories. Labour need to go into turbo drive to get youth vote out, seems only chance to me.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »I wonder is the uk any fundamentally different from anywhere? In that people who have no interest in politics wont be at all shy in bellowing out their opinions come election time. The dominant narrative that i can see is a lack of trust plague on all houses but as that is being largely put forward by a media that seems at least equally untrustworthy to me, i find the whole thing a bit of a clusterfcuk really.
I think the turnout for this election will be interesting. A lower turn out would seem likely which you'd imagine might favour the tories. Labour need to go into turbo drive to get youth vote out, seems only chance to me.
One explanation I can think of is that they are being manipulated to hell and back by their fake news media. Most countries in Europe have a responsible and intelligent press which reports things accurately but the British are unique in having partisan rags pumping out lies and propaganda (mostly right wing in nature).
Couple that with a politically ignorant electorate and it becomes a toxic mix : something bonkers like withdrawing from the EU and Single Market forever becomes the most normal thing in the world.0 -
I look forward to trump healthcare taking over their nhs.One explanation I can think of is that they are being manipulated to hell and back by their fake news media. Most countries in Europe have a responsible and intelligent press which reports things accurately but the British are unique in having partisan rags pumping out lies and propaganda (mostly right wing in nature).
Couple that with a politically ignorant electorate and it becomes a toxic mix : something bonkers like withdrawing from the EU and Single Market forever becomes the most normal thing in the world.
When almost every other state in Europe has a public healthcare system.0 -
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/23/tories-renewed-poll-boost-brexit-party-candidates-pull-out-opinium-observer
When even the Guardian is giving the Tories a 19-point lead, it’s not looking good.
My opinion of the UK electorate has never been lower.0 -
Advertisement
-
No deal Brexit this time next year so, all because of FPTP and 40% of the electorate voting Tory.
Economic chaos. Independent Scotland within 5 years. NI reunification poll within 10 years. Bye bye UK.
Michael Gove actually makes my skin crawl.
They do seem to be on that trajectory alright. They’ve passed the event horizon and are debating whether they should turn the ship around but it doesn’t matter what they do now, they’re caught in an inescapable gravity and are spiraling towards an inevitable doom
The numbers indicate another Tory led government with the SNP holding the balance of power. Johnson will sacrifice Scotland and the SNP will agree to support brexit if they get their referendum.
History books will marvel at the self destruction of one of the oldest political unions0 -
We've often made reference to the Brexiters' belief in Britain's glorious past, and yesterday touched again on the historically fragile relationship between Britain and continental Europe. While looking for something else, I came across an article on the the 1815 Corn Laws and couldn't help but notice the familar arguments put forth against them at the time. The retrospective analysis also bears a striking resemblance to the supposed "Project Fear" predictions.These laws were intended to stabilise wheat prices at 80/- per quarter. No foreign grain could be imported until domestic grain reached that price. The laws protected the expanded grain farms and failed to solve the problem of high prices: what they did do was to subject food prices to violent fluctuations at high levels and encouraged the hoarding of corn. This in turn had an averse effect on domestic industry and foreign markets and really only served the interests of the landowners. The Lancashire cotton industry was particularly badly hit as it relied on raw imports and on the export market for its finished goods. However, parliament was unreformed and represented only landowners; all MPs had to be landowners to sit in parliament.
The high price caused the cost of food to increase and consequently depressed the domestic market for manufactured goods because people spent the bulk of their earnings on food rather than commodities. The Corn Laws also caused great distress among the working classes in the towns. These people were unable to grow their own food and had to pay the high prices in order to stay alive. Since the vast majority of voters and Members of Parliament were landowners, the government was unwilling to reconsider the new legislation in order to help the economy, the poor or the manufacturers who laid off workers in times of restricted trade.
One imagines that people like Rees-Mogg think they're still fighting the Napoleonic Empire that led to the creation of these laws.
Hearing Johnson promise billions of pounds' worth of pot-hole repairs on the back of passing his WA by Christmas while the "working classes" are feeding themselves from food banks, one can only expect that the working classes will once again be "distressed" you've got to wonder if we're all underestimating the effect Brexit will have on the populace (regardless of who they blame).0 -
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/23/tories-renewed-poll-boost-brexit-party-candidates-pull-out-opinium-observer
When even the Guardian is giving the Tories a 19-point lead, it’s not looking good.
My opinion of the UK electorate has never been lower higher.
Pro-Brexit Parties now at 51 percent, with Anti-Brexit Parties now at 49 percent.
Add to the fact there are 5 million Labour Leaver voters, and we can quite clearly see how the UK is definitely a Leave country now.
Thank goodness for Boris Johnson. If May were still here, Remain parties would have dominated.
Hopefully Farage can convince more of those Labour Leave voters to either a) Back Brexit Party or b) Back Boris' deal; squeezing Labour into nothing short of an irrelevance; a wishful hope for some blissful post-war Attlee-heavy socialism.0 -
It seems we're only differing on how large Johnson's majority is going to be.
That's quite a good position to be in.
I now like how people are comparing Corbyn / Labour now versus 2017, given that Corbyn lost that election too. And given May is out of the picture, who wrecked the last election, one can only imagine the scale of the loss for Corbyn.
The Datapraxis seat projection for Labour, 213, is four seats more than Michael Foot got in 1983.
If I were Corbyn, I'd be writing my leader's resignation speech.
Nice to see the Revocationists at just 14 seats, too. Let's hope that falls into single digits. Many Remainers are APPALLED at Swinson's stance.
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/11983733091440312320 -
CelticRambler wrote: »We've often made reference to the Brexiters' belief in Britain's glorious past, and yesterday touched again on the historically fragile relationship between Britain and continental Europe. While looking for something else, I came across an article on the the 1815 Corn Laws and couldn't help but notice the familar arguments put forth against them at the time. The retrospective analysis also bears a striking resemblance to the supposed "Project Fear" predictions.
One imagines that people like Rees-Mogg think they're still fighting the Napoleonic Empire that led to the creation of these laws.
Hearing Johnson promise billions of pounds' worth of pot-hole repairs on the back of passing his WA by Christmas while the "working classes" are feeding themselves from food banks, one can only expect that the working classes will once again be "distressed" you've got to wonder if we're all underestimating the effect Brexit will have on the populace (regardless of who they blame).
When you read about some of the vested interests the likes of mogg and his market speculating chums have on the outcome of brexit, it's hard not to think of those entitled landowners getting rich off the back of starving poor people in britain and Ireland in the mid 19th century. Peel at least chose country over party so unlike may, was able to go out with honour and a clear conscience.0 -
Just on Mogg, it has been pointed outta that he’s pretty much disappeared since the campaign started. I’d say they well know he’s a liability and keeping him out and away of the cameras view.0
-
CelticRambler wrote: »We've often made reference to the Brexiters' belief in Britain's glorious past, and yesterday touched again on the historically fragile relationship between Britain and continental Europe. While looking for something else, I came across an article on the the 1815 Corn Laws and couldn't help but notice the familar arguments put forth against them at the time. The retrospective analysis also bears a striking resemblance to the supposed "Project Fear" predictions.
One imagines that people like Rees-Mogg think they're still fighting the Napoleonic Empire that led to the creation of these laws.
Hearing Johnson promise billions of pounds' worth of pot-hole repairs on the back of passing his WA by Christmas while the "working classes" are feeding themselves from food banks, one can only expect that the working classes will once again be "distressed" you've got to wonder if we're all underestimating the effect Brexit will have on the populace (regardless of who they blame).
To play devils advocate for a brief moment, I'm left wondering to what extent this entire quagmire of a political issue might have emerged if not for a sustained disconnect between what had previously been solidly 'left-wing' parts of the population and their elected officials. I'm speaking here primarily about the issue of migration, but there are other aspects of it too. Simply put, I'm not sure how exactly the Labour party, which has long conceived of itself as the party of the working man (and to my mind would have better claim to that mantle than the Conservative party) could adopt a programme so in odds with the desire of its base.
If we consider the two major groups of Labour support, the working class and the dependent class, I can't see how immigration at the levels the UK has seen in recent years, was supposed to be seen as a benefit to them. For the working class it has meant pressure on wages and increased competition for housing and public services (for medium and high earning workers it actually been positive). For the dependent class (which often shares a lot with the working class) it means much the same, although I suspect people who are dependent on the state are particularly attuned to seeing the state take on new burdens as it means a sharing/strain of already limited resources.
Of course, it would be simple just to see this as purely a case of the Labour party just discarding its support - the correlation between class and voting intention is by no means watertight, which begs the question of whom it has been delivering for. And to that, I would argue on the question of social issues and to a lesser degree foreign policy, the Labour party has been delivering. Gay rights might be the best example of this, and when we think of foreign policy, following the disastrous decisions of the early 2000s, the Labour party has been arguing with limited success (I'm thinking Miliband's intervention on Syria) for a more restrained foreign policy. The problem is, these successes have been delivering for groups the Labour party wasn't exactly doing badly with in the first place, namely students and the more progressively minded of the upper and middle class, whilst providing a very thin gruel for the working and dependent classes.
More recently, they appear to be doubling down on this bad hand, making great hay over things like Trans rights and gender identity questions and sounding off loudly over outrages in far off lands and refugees, but not really making a convincing case over the economic bread and butter issues. Now this is of course not to ignore the role of the Tory's in all this, but to be fair to the Tory's they tend to be consistent in their policy, namely de-fund, neglect, privatize and shift blame. In some respects it seems like a more coherent centre-right party, arguing for a low-tax low-services economy and making broadly Conservative arguments when it comes to social issues (with some famous exceptions in the Cameron era). They are what you might expect, a party of 'damn the poor, full speed ahead'.
The big problem seems to be that Labour (or perhaps I should be talking of the political left in a wider sense) which would previously position itself more coherently as a high-tax high-services party, has instead cannibalized itself to become a party of student activism, political correctness (the only time I want to use that unhelpful phrase) and niche progressivism, rather than a party with an answer to the economic problems of its principal support base. This is something that is particularly noticeable since the crash, which seems to have inculcated a lot more fiscal conservatism in the population and left charges of 'unnecessary austerity' as feeling flat and empty.
And so here comes the problem - Brexit comes along and at a time when the traditional Labour answers of protecting public services from the Tory's, run up against an anaemic positions on social issues, and an unwillingness to provide a convincing response to a base that is particularly liable to suffer from mass migration. This leaves a lot of traditionally Labour parts of the population without any real interest in the EU one way or another and with a lot of targeted campaigning directed at them about how Leaving will provide more resources for the country, reduce migration burdens and provide that thing they have been craving for so long - control. Hardly a surprise the result that emerges does so.
What is to my mind a surprise is that this same pattern has been continuing on since the referendum and that anyone has been expecting a different result. Now in deference to Labour, they are in an unenviable position, being unable to really rein in their attitudes on social issues without alienating the notoriously tantrum-prone student vote, with their traditional charges of defending public services starting to fall flat and with their inability to make a massive sea change shift on migration in the midst of the Brexit debate. I suppose my point is that this almost seems like just rewards for the connivance of a political party against the interests of its core support base for so long. It just seems particularly galling that the upshot of this sharp riposte to a political class that has failed them for so long, is going to be (to the best of my deduction) more pain and suffering for those working and dependent classes who have been dismayed for so long.0 -
Stop moaning ffs wrote: »Just on Mogg, it has been pointed outta that he’s pretty much disappeared since the campaign started. I’d say they well know he’s a liability and keeping him out and away of the cameras view.
Ever since the grenfell comments it would seem. Same with a lot of the front bench so definitely part of a coordinated strategy you'd think. No problem keeping johnson off the leash because everytime he makes a fool of himself the tory poll ratings seem to go up for some reason.0 -
Eskimo, are you seriously not worried what Johnson government will mean? Both in terms of the economy, which you have previously stated isn't important, but also in terms of the union itself?
He has ditched NI, so the union has already been sacrificed, but most likely Scotland will follow.
I don't know what the answer is, but giving the architects of the chaos even more power seems the wrong choice.0 -
Advertisement
-
Eskimo, are you seriously not worried what Johnson government will mean? Both in terms of the economy, which you have previously stated isn't important, but also in terms of the union itself?
He has ditched NI, so the union has already been sacrificed, but most likely Scotland will follow.
I don't know what the answer is, but giving the architects of the chaos even more power seems the wrong choice.
Corbyn has not ruled out a Scottish independence referendum in the second half of his term; a Scottish removal from the Union is more likely under Corbyn than Johnson, who is not obliged to issue a poll.
Second, many Scottish polls do not show a clear majority in favour of Leaving the Union. Then again, I'm not against another poll, it's up to the Scots to decide. But let's not assume that they would leave the Union because of Boris Johnson; he's not going to be an eternal leader, and it would be a very stupid reason for someone to argue. Sturgeon can win a vote across Scotland, but it doesn't make her view the majority opinion. Similarly, not everyone who votes for Sturgeon is automatically in favour of independence. The question is a more complex one than that.
On Welsh independence, 72% in a recent poll would vote against it.
In terms of Northern Ireland, again, there is no clear reason for NI to be given a vote. Again, I'm not arguing against the idea of holding a vote, just that I don't see one being held by Johnson anytime soon.
So for the above reasons, I don't see the Union collapsing in haste, as many here have suggested.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement