General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

GM228

Some of the document pages here:-

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199635159995289600?s=19

Edit: Full documents here:-

https://order-order.com/2019/11/27/excl-read-full-corbyns-unredacted-trade-documents/

Joe_ Public

GM228 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1199617104632336384?s=19

How does an Australian points based immigration system protect the NHS?

Strange response, isnt it? Like he just lobbed it in there for something to say, meaningless really.

Harry Palmr

GM228 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1199617104632336384?s=19

How does an Australian points based immigration system protect the NHS?

More white doctors? That tweet came about an hour before the Corbyn/Gardener PC.

As mentioned above this is the important bit for most people

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1199637384675168256

Labour might have been better to have waited 24 hours as today is really SNP day for the media.

GM228

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Strange response, isnt it? Like he just lobbed it in there for something to say, meaningless really.

No divergence on what he normally says or does so.

Bannasidhe

The backlash within the Jewish community is growing.
As a tactic it's aim was to sow division - which it has done but not in the way intended.

Dear Chief Rabbi,

You have shamed your office today and rendered the Jewish people even more vulnerable to real antisemitism by reinforcing the fake, media-induced antisemitism that you recklessly impute to Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party.

To interfere politically at this point in an election in a way that could affect the only party that could bring hope and social justice to this country is beyond contempt and renders you unfit for office.

As a Jew and a Labour Party supporter, I am proud to be part of a venture that I see as a continuity of so many of my Jewish forbears who have fought for social justice here and in Europe.

You talk about ‘the soul of the nation being at stake’ YET have you not noticed what has happened to that soul over the last nine years where:
1. The poor have been vilified
2. The ill have been attacked
3. The mentally ill have suffered
4. Inequality has soared.
5. Greed and financial rapaciousness has flourished
6. Austerity has been unnecessarily applied after a financial crisis brought about by an out of control finance sector that has benefited the wealthiest.



Where was YOUR voice about the nation’s soul then? Yet you inveigh against a decent and honest man who, even now, maintains integrity in the face of manifest manipulation, deceit and digital sleight of hand from the Tories.

You have shamed your office, the justice loving tradition of the Jewish people and laid the grounds for future tensions in the most irresponsible way.

You seem to lack the acuity of intellect to even spot the most obvious use of this bogus antisemitism as a political weapon. Justin Schlossberg of the Media Reform Coalition called the antisemitism saga ‘a disinformation paradigm’ and made a detailed study of the issue. The great scholar, Norman Finkelstein, likewise, sees this a purely politically motivated attack.



How dare you, amateurishly intervene in this, betraying the great Jewish scholarly tradition of intellectual and analytical acumen embodied in the Talmud and the exegetics of the Chumash.

With profound sadness and considerable disgust,

Simon Cohen

https://dorseteye.com/dear-chief-rabbiyou-have-shamed-your-office-today-and-rendered-the-jewish-people-even-more-vulnerable-to-real-antisemitism/?fbclid=IwAR1agPwLC5yGuavBMzOC1nRNEbB3WbwUdXJrs5dTkw_1iJqxHNcXKhU0PUI

Leroy42

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Not sure. Dont think this is a smoking gun as it only seems to cover a period up to 2018 when theresa may was pm so johnson can probably deflect it easily enough. But by keeping the issue front and centre for a while can only be good for labour i think. People already distrust johnson in a big way, all this adds to it imo.

But it goes back to my previous point, namely that distrust of Johnson is already factored in. Whether it is down to Corbyn being seen as worse, or simply the voters not caring, I don't know.

But simply look at some of the statements that have been by the Tories in the campaign. JRM about fire victims, a non existent manifesto, Patel saying poverty is not the governments fault but down to local authorities. Yesterday Gove claimed that Services would actually have a better deal outside the single market. 50k nurses, except it isn't. 40 hospitals, except its not!

liamtech

GM228 wrote: »

Some of the document pages here:-

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1199635159995289600?s=19

Edit: Full documents here:-

https://order-order.com/2019/11/27/excl-read-full-corbyns-unredacted-trade-documents/

This SHOULD be front and center of the election for a period of at least a few days = it SHOULD knock the Antisemitism spin off the top spot

Will it though? or will the media remain entirely transfixed on yesterdays Andrew Neil Interview?

Zubeneschamali

A behind the scenes account of Johnson visiting a hospital in a Northern Leave town. Particularly sad is the mention that the picture that made the papers was a selfie with a healthcare assistant who wanted a pic with Johnson only because she'd seen his Dad on I'm A Celebrity : Hers was the sole smile I saw that day.

https://twitter.com/HinduMonkey/status/1198924351795605508

sid waddell

GM228 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1199617104632336384?s=19

How does an Australian points based immigration system protect the NHS?

One of the common narratives of the proponents of the Australian immigration system is that it would reduce racism.

If so, why is Australia such a racist country?

Leroy42

sid waddell wrote: »

One of the common narratives of the proponents of the Australian immigration system is that it would reduce racism.

If so, why is Australia such a racist country?

Sorry, but I think you might have got this a bit wrong. It is not designed, and could never deliver, a reduction in racism.

It might reduce the amount of 'different' people and as such the instances of racism will reduce, but the racism is actually part of official policy.

Australia is a racist country (I am taking your word on that as I don't have evidence to hand) because the people are racist. Nothing to do with a points system.

Bannasidhe

All is not will within the Conservative Party.

It would seem that Muslim Tories are wondering when Islamophobia in the CP is going to be tackled.

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1199643772604370945

BonnieSituation

awec wrote: »

Laura Kuenssberg is actually a joke.

What did she do now?

ancapailldorcha

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The backlash within the Jewish community is growing.
As a tactic it's aim was to sow division - which it has done but not in the way intended.

https://dorseteye.com/dear-chief-rabbiyou-have-shamed-your-office-today-and-rendered-the-jewish-people-even-more-vulnerable-to-real-antisemitism/?fbclid=IwAR1agPwLC5yGuavBMzOC1nRNEbB3WbwUdXJrs5dTkw_1iJqxHNcXKhU0PUI

That's exquisitely written. It's great to see people like Cohen calling this sort of propaganda out.

ancapailldorcha

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sorry, but I think you might have got this a bit wrong. It is not designed, and could never deliver, a reduction in racism.

It might reduce the amount of 'different' people and as such the instances of racism will reduce, but the racism is actually part of official policy.

Australia is a racist country (I am taking your word on that as I don't have evidence to hand) because the people are racist. Nothing to do with a points system.

The only people I know who've told me that its racists are Australians oddly enough. Farage & Co. would always give Australia, Canada and New Zealand as examples when it came to "closer links to the commonwealth" while India only ever got mentioned in a free trade context.

Harry Palmr

What a fantastically pernicious question just fired at Sturgeon - re Jews/Labour.

Joe_ Public

Leroy42 wrote: »

But it goes back to my previous point, namely that distrust of Johnson is already factored in. Whether it is down to Corbyn being seen as worse, or simply the voters not caring, I don't know.

But simply look at some of the statements that have been by the Tories in the campaign. JRM about fire victims, a non existent manifesto, Patel saying poverty is not the governments fault but down to local authorities. Yesterday Gove claimed that Services would actually have a better deal outside the single market. 50k nurses, except it isn't. 40 hospitals, except its not!

I dont disagree with that at all. Corbyn is divisive, cant argue that and, rightly or wrongly, we hear a lot more daily from those who dislike him than those who support him and i think that feeds the whole narrative that himself and johnson are like peas in a pod when it comes to trust and integrity.

I still think things will change, whether we hit peak get brexit done mesaging and fatigue sets in or labour hammer nhs narrative home, i think the gap will continue to narrow but wouldnt say by how much. There are still a few million undecideds out there and between 2-3m new young voters which labour and other parties can work on to get them out on polling day.

Danzy

sid waddell wrote: »

One of the common narratives of the proponents of the Australian immigration system is that it would reduce racism.

If so, why is Australia such a racist country?

Most seem to say how it is a controlled system and at least some brake on radical free market economics.

If Australia had a more libertarian, race to the bottom style of migration like Britainhas, nevermind the more radical version of that that Labour want, it's hardly going to help it.

Bannasidhe

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's exquisitely written. It's great to see people like Cohen calling this sort of propaganda out.

Yet on Sky News Sturgeon is fielding questions on the general theme of how could you support that antisemite protecting blah blah as PM.

Although she has now been asked why she thinks Johnson is unfit and she isn't holding back.

Bannasidhe

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The only people I know who've told me that its racists are Australians oddly enough. Farage & Co. would always give Australia, Canada and New Zealand as examples when it came to "closer links to the commonwealth" while India only ever got mentioned in a free trade context.

I lived and worked there for 2 years (got the points! Go Me! ) and it was without doubt the most openly racist place I have ever been in. First day there while we were sorting out our banking the manager made comments about Asian people that wouldn't have been out of place in a 'Vietnam War' Film. Our jaws hit the desk but we thought maybe that was just her... it wasn't.
We quickly learned that the phrase 'I'm not Racist but..." was about to be followed by an anti-Asian tirade. When it came to Native Australians there was no warning. It was straight into the tirade.

I can honestly say it was like finding myself in some weird pre Civil Rights movement 'Deep South' universe.

BonnieSituation

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I lived and worked there for 2 years (got the points! Go Me! ) and it was without doubt the most openly racist place I have ever been in. First day there while we were sorting out our banking the manager made comments about Asian people that wouldn't have been out of place in a 'Vietnam War' Film. Our jaws hit the desk but we thought maybe that was just her... it wasn't.
We quickly learned that the phrase 'I'm not Racist but..." was about to be followed by an anti-Asian tirade. When it came to Native Australians there was no warning. It was straight into the tirade.

I can honestly say it was like finding myself in some weird pre Civil Rights movement 'Deep South' universe.

I lived there in 2005/2006 and I had the same experiences constantly. What frightened me more how incessant it was and how you get conditioned to it.

I couldn't believe how I was perceiving race when I left. It was peculiar and took a while to re-adjust. Frightening.
Thankfully I don't have to darken its door again.

Bannasidhe

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I lived there in 2005/2006 and I had the same experiences constantly. What frightened me more how incessant it was and how you get conditioned to it.

I couldn't believe how I was perceiving race when I left. It was peculiar and took a while to re-adjust. Frightening.
Thankfully I don't have to darken its door again.

I was exactly the same. Someone cut me up in traffic and I was horrified at the words that came out of my own mouth.
Not to mention the affect it was having on my spent the first 10 years of his life living happily in a very diverse and multicultural society son.
That day was the day I decided to leave and never return.

BonnieSituation

Guido Fawkes have released the unredacted docs:

https://order-order.com/2019/11/27/excl-read-full-corbyns-unredacted-trade-documents/

Spectacular arrogance by Barry Gardiner trying to dictate what questions journalists should ask.

That type of language is unbecoming of a politician.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1199638434761060353

In terms of the backlash against the Rabbi, let's not forget that 93% of UK Jews will not vote for the Labour Party.

So, let's put things in perspective. Some who have raised disagreement with the Rabbi's legitimate warning is a minor splash in the pond.

The ripples from last night's earthquake interview with Corbyn are still pummelling away at the electorate. The anti-Semitism scandal is only just beginning to generate heat in this campaign. Methinks it's likely to engulf Labour going forward.

Corbyn looking increasingly defensive and angry is not a good look, either.

prawnsambo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Guido Fawkes have released the unredacted docs:

https://order-order.com/2019/11/27/excl-read-full-corbyns-unredacted-trade-documents/

If you don't want to go on that cesspit of a site, here's a link to where they were originally published on reddit and you can download the lot in a zip.

BonnieSituation

prawnsambo wrote: »

If you don't want to go on that cesspit of a site, here's a link to where they were originally published on reddit and you can download the lot in a zip.

I can't access reddit in work

prawnsambo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I can't access reddit in work

It's not actually hosted on reddit. It's on a repository. That's what I've linked to.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Spectacular arrogance by Barry Gardiner trying to dictate what questions journalists should ask.

That type of language is unbecoming of a politician.

Corbyn looking increasingly defensive and angry is not a good look, either.

Furthermore, his response is exactly the opposite of what he should have done.

I think this NHS release was probably timed to mask the damage from last night's apocalyptic interview.

By doing what he's done, Barry Gardiner has now harvested more attention on the anti-Semitism question than he needed to. Now headlines and social media are talking about him/journalism/anti-Semitism, and less about the NHS.

From a strategic point of view, what Gardiner did was ill-advised.

Letwin_Larry

Deleted User wrote: »

Spectacular arrogance by Barry Gardiner trying to dictate what questions journalists should ask.

That type of language is unbecoming of a politician.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1199638434761060353

In terms of the backlash against the Rabbi, let's not forget that 93% of UK Jews will not vote for the Labour Party.

So, let's put things in perspective. Some who have raised disagreement with the Rabbi's legitimate warning is a minor splash in the pond.

The ripples from last night's earthquake interview with Corbyn are still pummelling away at the electorate. The anti-Semitism scandal is only just beginning to generate heat in this campaign. Methinks it's likely to engulf Labour going forward.

Corbyn looking increasingly defensive and angry is not a good look, either.

i did say when this election was called that Corbyn's past associations would come back to haunt him, and that his opponents would not be slow in reminding the electorate of them by employing the political tactic of asking your opponent very difficult questions, just to watch him squirm as he answers them, or not in Corbyn's case.

people on these boards said it was nonsense and was all forgotten, and that the voters had more pressing things to concentrate on.
while i agree there are other far more immediate concerns, make no mistake these difficult questions have damaged him, beyond redemption imo.

he's finished as far as ever being PM is concerned.

bren2001

Deleted User wrote: »

Spectacular arrogance by Barry Gardiner trying to dictate what questions journalists should ask.

That type of language is unbecoming of a politician.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1199638434761060353

In terms of the backlash against the Rabbi, let's not forget that 93% of UK Jews will not vote for the Labour Party.

So, let's put things in perspective. Some who have raised disagreement with the Rabbi's legitimate warning is a minor splash in the pond.

The ripples from last night's earthquake interview with Corbyn are still pummelling away at the electorate. The anti-Semitism scandal is only just beginning to generate heat in this campaign. Methinks it's likely to engulf Labour going forward.

Corbyn looking increasingly defensive and angry is not a good look, either.

Deleted User wrote: »

Furthermore, his response is exactly the opposite of what he should have done.

I think this NHS release was probably timed to mask the damage from last night's apocalyptic interview.

By doing what he's done, Barry Gardiner has now harvested more attention on the anti-Semitism question than he needed to. Now headlines and social media are talking about him/journalism/anti-Semitism, and less about the NHS.

From a strategic point of view, what Gardiner did was ill-advised.

Would you ever get a hold of yourself?

As a Labour supporter, the interview last night went fine from my perspective. I'm sure Tory supporters can say Corbyn was poor. It was in no way earth shattering and Neil didn't land a killer blow at all. It was a defensive approach from Corbyn and it worked (from my perspective).

I look forward to tomorrow night when you vigorously defend Boris when Neil takes him apart.

I like how you failed to comment on the 400 page document exposing the fact that the NHS is on the table in US-trade negotiations and focus on Jeremy.

Fr Tod Umptious

bren2001 wrote: »

Would you ever get a hold of yourself?

As a Labour supporter, the interview last night went fine from my perspective. I'm sure Tory supporters can say Corbyn was poor. It was in no way earth shattering and Neil didn't land a killer blow at all. It was a defensive approach from Corbyn and it worked (from my perspective).

I look forward to tomorrow night when you vigorously defend Boris when Neil takes him apart.

I like how you failed to comment on the 400 page document exposing the fact that the NHS is on the table in US-trade negotiations and focus on Jeremy.

With all due respect, you are the the kind of person to ask what they think of Corbyn's performance.

You already a Labour supporter.

It's what the undecided think that matters.