General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

Joe_ Public

bren2001 wrote: »

I think his plan is the best. Another referendum is the logical position to take. I have an issue with him sitting on the fence. He should have come out and said if he'd campaign for his deal (whatever it is) or remain in the referendum. He lacks credibility with his current stance.

Obviously he doesn't know what his deal would be but he wouldn't come back to parliament with one he wasn't willing to accept.

I'm still not convinced that adequately addresses the question. One element of the campaign, and long before, has been johnsons eagerness to portray corbyn as a remainer on one side while swinson hammers him as a brexiteer on the other. So corbyn committing to one side was automatically playing into one of their hands.

Maybe one or the other was the better way to go, but as i still see it, he had 3 ways to go and there were poor consequences facing him whichever way he went. Middle ground had its benefits too.

Strazdas

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I'm still not convinced that adequately addresses the question. One element of the campaign, and long before, has been johnsons eagerness to portray corbyn as a remainer on one side while swinson hammers him as a brexiteer on the other. So corbyn committing to one side was automatically playing into one of their hands.

Maybe one or the other was the better way to go, but as i still see it, he had 3 ways to go and there were poor consequences facing him whichever way he went. Middle ground had its benefits too.

When you think about it, what possible sway would the English hard right have with Corbyn, a man they utterly despise and who didn't hold the referendum? If he becomes PM, it's game over for Brexit.....it will never happen.

They can't hold someone to a pledge if they didn't even vote for the guy and rejected his manifesto.

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

When you think about it, what possible sway would the English hard right have with Corbyn, a man they utterly despise and who didn't hold the referendum? If he becomes PM, it's game over for Brexit.....it will never happen.

They can't hold someone to a pledge if they didn't even vote for the guy and rejected his manifesto.

Yeah, though i guess that will ultimately be a question for the people to decide as corbyn has correctly pointed out and that many people in the past, dominic cummings included, have suggested as an appropriate course of action.

splinter65

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Are Andrew Neil’s comments newsworthy or not? The Telegraph certainly thinks Channel 4’s apology today is newsworthy, top headline newsworthy.

The whole point is going over your head like whooosh...any newspaper can take any political position it likes. You don’t seem to be able to grasp this. The Telegraph can decide for itself what is newsworthy and what isn’t as can (and does)The Guardian. Would you prefer if they had a kind of a UK Pravda?
Wait, don’t answer that....

Joe_ Public

splinter65 wrote: »

The whole point is going over your head like whooosh...any newspaper can take any political position it likes. You don’t seem to be able to grasp this. The Telegraph can decide for itself what is newsworthy and what isn’t as can (and does)The Guardian. Would you prefer if they had a kind of a UK Pravda?
Wait, don’t answer that....

Of course they can, nobody will dispute that. They're also open to critique on the quality and credibility of their coverage. The telegraph wishing to appear as the information wing of the tory party doesnt mean they couldnt still produce good quality journalism but when they lose the likes of Peter Oborne and give space to such as Nick Timothy, sorry Sir Nick, i haven't much to say for it.

Some of the fiercest attacks I've read on jeremy corbyn have appeared in the guardian and observer. It does make some sustained and genuine attempt to provide fair and quality output imo.

liamtech

Im really looking forward to this debate - but i just cannot understand how Boris can keep describing his Brexit deal, as being 'the whole of the UK is leaving together, complete and intact' - this will obviously come up tonight, with Northern Ireland being front and center

To me he is -

• lying, in the belief that NI doesnt matter to the rest of GB
• Doesnt actually understand his own deal
• or banking on the usual media bias, and for the ACTUAL NI deal, to be written off as fake news

Is this the real reason he will not debate Andrew Neil?

Id be interested in seeing what people have to say

prawnsambo

liamtech wrote: »

Im really looking forward to this debate - but i just cannot understand how Boris can keep describing his Brexit deal, as being 'the whole of the UK is leaving together, complete and intact' - this will obviously come up tonight, with Northern Ireland being front and center

To me he is -

• lying, in the belief that NI doesnt matter to the rest of GB
• Doesnt actually understand his own deal
• or banking on the usual media bias, and for the ACTUAL NI deal, to be written off as fake news

Is this the real reason he will not debate Andrew Neil?

Id be interested in seeing what people have to say

I'd be interested to see if he actually turns up.

Letwin_Larry

liamtech wrote: »

Im really looking forward to this debate - but i just cannot understand how Boris can keep describing his Brexit deal, as being 'the whole of the UK is leaving together, complete and intact' - this will obviously come up tonight, with Northern Ireland being front and center

To me he is -

• lying, in the belief that NI doesnt matter to the rest of GB
• Doesnt actually understand his own deal
• or banking on the usual media bias, and for the ACTUAL NI deal, to be written off as fake news

Is this the real reason he will not debate Andrew Neil?

Id be interested in seeing what people have to say

Boris like most British people, he doesn't give a tinker's curse what happens to NI, so long as he doesn't have to rely on their HoC votes that is. most Brits probably consider the place to be wet, dull, dreary, troublesome, and a bit of an embarrassment.
tbh i think he would feel well rid of NI if he could.

Joe_ Public

Laura kuennsberg just doesn't deserve the title of journalist. Did police really advise johnson to cancel his appearance in Rochester today? The London independent reporter present says they counted 5 protesters there. Should kuennsberg not at least do a bit more legwork before pronouncing this as fact.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1202952982616248323?s=20

Strazdas

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Laura kuennsberg just doesn't deserve the title of journalist. Did police really advise johnson to cancel his appearance in Rochester today? The London independent reporter present says they counted 5 protesters there. Should kuennsberg not at least do a bit more legwork before pronouncing this as fact.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1202952982616248323?s=20

She has form for this, trotting out whatever bilge she has been told by the Tories without even researching it or questioning whether they are lying to her.

Joe_ Public

Strazdas wrote: »

She has form for this, trotting out whatever bilge she has been told by the Tories without even researching it or questioning whether they are lying to her.

Not even saying its definitively wrong, just she has obviously swallowed whatever line her tory source has given her and regurgitated it for public consumption. No questions asked. I dont know what that us, just its not journalism. Interesting in independent piece they use "security sources" in place of police in the story.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-speech-cancelled-protest-police-general-election-rochester-a9235821.html

liamtech

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

Boris like most British people, he doesn't give a tinker's curse what happens to NI, so long as he doesn't have to rely on their HoC votes that is. most Brits probably consider the place to be wet, dull, dreary, troublesome, and a bit of an embarrassment.
tbh i think he would feel well rid of NI if he could.

I think you are right and i all but said as much. but what astonishes me is the fact that Boris is actually Lying, in a blatant fashion that is not up for debate

Like i would be interested to hear if anyone would disagree with the above statement (of fact)

We have known for ages, that Boris's deal creates a border in the Irish Sea - prior to the finalization of the deal (when the DUP were still on board and applauding their veto) - it wasnt actually a secret - everyone openly discussed this trade barrier -

And in Bojos deal - it is a BARRIER! in the strictest sense of the word- which is arguably harder on goods going GB to NI - than NI to GB

But it strikes me that - this is not up for debate - everytime, Boris Johnson says 'The entire UK is leaving, and there will be no trade barriers' he is, in effect, lying

And thats not even to touch on the fact that he toppled May over this exact issue

beggars_bush

It expect her to get a media gig with the next Tory administration

ArmaniJeanss

Panelbase have generally been the best least worst for Labour with the gap going 13->10->8 in their November polls.
That trend has stalled or reversed in todays one.

CON: 43% (+1)
LAB: 34% (-)
LDEM: 13% (-)
BREX: 3% (-1)
GRN: 2% (-1)

BonnieSituation

Is the debate going to be on YouTube or the like?

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Is the debate going to be on YouTube or the like?

You can watch it from the BBC News website link, regardless of whether you're based in the UK or not.

liamtech

Do we fancy having another POLL for tonight's Debate

For anyone who needs it, here is a link to the live stream.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058036664

Considering its the last big debate

I added this poll - lets see what we think

Rjd2

The general ****ing public asking the questions..why not the interviewer?

Interesting to see who has the more plants in the audience.

Hande hoche!

Rjd2 wrote: »

The general ****ing public asking the questions..why not the interviewer?

Interesting to see who has the more plants in the audience.

Plaid Cymru I reckon.

BonnieSituation

What sort of format is this? This is a daft way to debate.

dublinman1990

Corbyn is doing well to deflect his position on Brexit & on whether to vote for other parties in this election.

BJ on the other hand is promoting his usual message about Brexit.

Jeremy Corbyn obfuscating and dodging questions - yet again.

BonnieSituation

Deleted User wrote: »

Jeremy Corbyn obfuscating and dodging questions - yet again.

I take it you're not watching it again.

FrancieBrady

Bizarre. Johnson gets asked about the DUP objection to his deal and he answers 'we've got a great deal' and the interviewer moves on.

Johnson makes a dig about Corbyn supporting the IRA and the interviewer insists he answers it.

Cod of a show.

Compared to other debates, Johnson is more "Prime Ministerial", offers evidence and fact as opposed to rhetoric, and challenges Corbyn on his weaknesses.

Johnson is doing well.

liamtech

Deleted User wrote: »

Compared to other debates, Johnson is more "Prime Ministerial", offers evidence and fact as opposed to rhetoric, and challenges Corbyn on his weaknesses.

Johnson is doing well.

Prime Ministerial?
He just lied again about Northern Ireland
He keeps going for laughs with his comments
He just SPECIFICALLY SAID, 50,000 New nurses includes 19,000 that are already their

Prime Ministerial - cant add and subtract - cant tell the truth - behaves as though this is all for laughs??

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058036664

Boards Poll and discussion open if anyone is interested

liamtech

liamtech wrote: »

He just SPECIFICALLY SAID, 50,000 New nurses includes 19,000 that are already their

Prime Ministerial - cant add and subtract - cant tell the truth - behaves as though this is all for laughs??
Boards Poll and discussion open if anyone is interested

If you can prevent 19,000 from leaving, that is better to keep them within the service.

Leroy42

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Compared to other debates, Johnson is more "Prime Ministerial", offers evidence and fact as opposed to rhetoric, and challenges Corbyn on his weaknesses.

Johnson is doing well.

So you now admit Johnson preformed poorly in previous debates? Funny, I don't recall your pointing out his faults prior to his resurrence today.