Noel Grealish

Riskymove

weldoninhio wrote: »

I’m sure that there are other countries in Ireland that have comparable number to Nigeria in Ireland. How come their figures aren’t completely skewed by our false GDP??

ah lads come on.....it is going around in circles now

the other countries don't use the GDP of countries in their models ( as per best practice) and cause it would be nuts

US2

Gemma Doherty will be voted Taoiseach if this nonsense keeps going .

Riskymove

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Using the inflated Irish per capita GDP figure still does not explain the amount relative to other countries. The same calculations using GNP would still be anomalous.

the whole approach by the Nigerian Statistics is what is wrong

Neither GDP nor GNP would be used under best practice

terrydel

weldoninhio wrote: »

Today in the Dail, Noel Grealish spoke about the amount of money leaving the country (10bn in the past eighth years alone). He wanted to know if there were proper mechanisms in place to make sure that all of this money was being sent legally. "He asked if Revenue or the Department of Finance had anyway of tracking where this money was coming from." "He said that he could understand transfers to other EU countries, but €3.4bn transferred to one non-EU country was astronomical."

For this he was branded a racist. Is it now racist to look to check on payments out of Ireland to ensure it is legal?? €10bn is a huge amount.

Of course, Leo blabbered on about the Irish sending cheques home from USA.


https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1112/1090381-noel-grealish-dail/

It is an absolute joke that this isn't being looked into, most will probably be above board, but I'd imagine there is a huge amount leaving that are funds gained by illegal means or being sent for illegal means.

Its an absolute joke that people actually believed those figures.
More accurately they probably believed they because they wanted to as it allows they to awaken their latent bigoted views.

suicide_circus

US2 wrote: »

Gemma Doherty will be voted Taoiseach if this nonsense keeps going .

the best way of making that happen is not allowing legitimate debate to happen around these matters.

Roversfan1

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's on him to elaborate. There's a reason beside them being black, because that is nonsensical, but he's not given it.

I don't think you got that Matt.

I was referring to the a discrepancy between the WB and CSO figures.

Why would Noel Grealish need to elaborate on that? He asked the question himself.

Get your mind off Grealish here....try to focus on the question and the possible answers. I understand it is always tempting to go for the racism but try to resist and once you're clean you'll be able to enjoy discussions again

So....the discrepancy

BarryD2

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The only reason you are interested is that the inaccurate information published is inaccurate. Why does that make you think the accurate data (if we had it) would be interesting?

If I invent some nonsensical numbers about custard exports, does that mean we must have an investigation to get to the bottom of the custard issue?

Nope.

And going after this as if there must be a real issue keeps alive the racist idea that Nigerians are simultaneously welfare spongers, black economy millionaires and involved in massive money laundering.

Based on nothing but this silly number.

The discrepancy between the figures should be examined more closely, anyone who argues otherwise is equally guilty of bandying around the racist card.

I do believe that African men (mostly Nigerians in Irl) are more inclined to not pay their way here, the women seem to be a lot more proactive in terms of getting work and making a contribution. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

Whatever though, of all the states we do have more of a moral obligation to support Nigerians. That's where many of our excess priests were exported, where the 'money for the black babies' went. We converted them away from their traditional beliefs and schooled them, even gave them Irish names. So they are part of the Irish cultural empire and we have extra responsibilities to them as a result.

terrydel

US2 wrote: »

Gemma Doherty will be voted Taoiseach if this nonsense keeps going .

Its actually hilarious how thick bigots swallow the numbers he threw out.
Theyve gone very quiet tho.

terrydel

suicide_circus wrote: »

the best way of making that happen is not allowing legitimate debate to happen around these matters.

Nobody is stopping legitimate debate, but when someone blatantly throws out lies to further their hateful agenda, that needs to be called out first and foremost.

is_that_so

suicide_circus wrote: »

the best way of making that happen is not allowing legitimate debate to happen around these matters.

To have legitimate debate you need to have a basis and the Grealish figures are far from reliable and out and out guesswork. We do have the means to monitor what goes out under money laundering laws with Welfare, Revenue and CAB mopping up behind.

Roversfan1

terrydel wrote: »

Nobody is stopping legitimate debate, but when someone blatantly throws out lies to further their hateful agenda, that needs to be called out first and foremost.

Called out or shut down?

is_that_so

BarryD2 wrote: »

The discrepancy between the figures should be examined more closely, anyone who argues otherwise is equally guilty of bandying around the racist card.

I do believe that African men (mostly Nigerians in Irl) are more inclined to not pay their way here, the women seem to be a lot more proactive in terms of getting work and making a contribution. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

Whatever though, of all the states we do have more of a moral obligation to support Nigerians. That's where many of our excess priests were exported, where the 'money for the black babies' went. We converted them away from their traditional beliefs and schooled them, even gave them Irish names. So they are part of the Irish cultural empire and we have extra responsibilities to them as a result.

The discrepancy has been identified as a gap between the out and out wild guesswork model of Nigeria V the CSO here, who would have a more sophisticated method of guessing. Investigate away just as long as we're not on the hook financially for a report that finds nothing. Gotta say this one of those unintentional fake news stories where an individual can't even do their own basic research and trusts data they found as gospel.

terrydel

Roversfan1 wrote: »

Called out or shut down?

Read again what I typed.

Zubeneschamali

The GDP thing is not enough to explain the Nigeria figure, it might double or treble the real number, but this number is way bigger than that.

Here is a chart showing the WB figures for total remittances received by Nigeria and Poland.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.TRF.PWKR.CD.DT?end=2015&locations=PL-NG&start=1974&view=chart

Per the chart, the total in Nigeria was 2 billion in 2004 and 14 billion in 2005.

The population of Nigeria is 5 times that of Poland, and per these numbers, the per-Nigerian remittance level in 2015 is 60% that of per-Pole. Does that sound reasonable to anyone?

No, for some reason the Nigerians decided to fudge the numbers from 2005 on, adding 10 billion to the totals.

Add in the Irish GDP thing, and bobs your uncle.

Patrick2010

is_that_so wrote: »

To have legitimate debate you need to have a basis and the Grealish figures are far from reliable and out and out guesswork. We do have the means to monitor what goes out under money laundering laws with Welfare, Revenue and CAB mopping up behind.

Aren’t they world bank figures? Are they known for just making up figures?

blanch152

Sir Oxman wrote: »

That thread is the most clear explanation for why there is such a discrepancy between World Bank and CSO figures.

blanch152 wrote: »

Conor McCabe's thread generally explains why the World Bank figures are around twice the CSO ones because of the anomaly of Ireland's GDP. So far so good, allow for a difference in methodology and you can probably account for anything up to three times higher.

That leaves China and Nigeria as stand-outs.

It explains some but not all of the discrepancies.

Zubeneschamali

BarryD2 wrote: »

I do believe that African men (mostly Nigerians in Irl) are more inclined to not pay their way here, the women seem to be a lot more proactive in terms of getting work and making a contribution. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

How could that multiply the remittance home money by 10?

They'd have to be simultaneously work-shy and millionaires, meaning what, criminals and money-launderers on a massive scale?

is_that_so

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Aren’t they world bank figures? Are they known for just making up figures?

Numbers they were given by Nigeria. I believe they stated they couldn't be sure of them.

Riskymove

is_that_so wrote: »

Numbers they were given by Nigeria. I believe they stated they couldn't be sure of them.

this has been said a number of times now, clearly the discussion is just going to keep circling unless people read back

terrydel

terrydel wrote: »

Its actually hilarious how thick bigots swallow the numbers he threw out.
Theyve gone very quiet tho.

The figures came from the world bank group which the Irish government is a member of. It’s closely linked to the IMF.

They published the numbers not you, me or Grealish.

Roversfan1

Hopefully once the hysterical name calling and racist chanting get done by those who need to get it out of their system a thorough investigation takes place.

It is clear from the difference in figures(thanks to those who have highlighted this) that an investigation is merited

weisses

terrydel wrote: »

Nobody is stopping legitimate debate, but when someone blatantly throws out lies to further their hateful agenda, that needs to be called out first and foremost.

So people in FF have a hateful agenda these days... pathetic that racist is also spokesperson for justice... it's disgraceful I tell ya

is_that_so

Riskymove wrote: »

this has been said a number of times now, clearly the discussion is just going to keep circling unless people read back

It's what threads do! All that can be said is used up by Page 5!

The CSO gets the income figure for non nationals from revenue. Do revenue use the term non national? If you are naturalised in Ireland, would you not be then classed as a national?

Zubeneschamali

Roversfan1 wrote: »

It is clear from the difference in figures(thanks to those who have highlighted this) that an investigation is merited

Since it is clear that Grealish only raised it to whip up racism, we should not waste a cent on investigating this nonsense.

Faugheen

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Aren’t they world bank figures? Are they known for just making up figures?

But the World Bank are given the figures by each individual country.

Lads, seriously think about it.

CSO figures have between 1,000 to 10,000 Nigerians living in Ireland at the moment.

Let’s assume that figure is close to 10,000, because some people like to believe they’re all over the place.

Now take the World Bank figure of 539m dollars last year in remittances.

That would imply $53,900 or €49,000 is being sent back per person on average every year to Nigeria.

If you look at the CSO figures of €17m, then you get an average €1,700 per person being sent in remittances.

Look at it logically and figure out which statements are more believable, the analysis from the CSO which are assisted by the Revenue, or the World Bank figures which were provided from Nigeria using the average GDP per capita and no real actual analysis?

I know it’s a hard ask for some of the ‘concerned citizens’ but I’m sure some of you can see reason instead of believing that fear-whipping gombeen Noel Grealish.

is_that_so

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

The CSO gets the income figure for non nationals from revenue. Do revenue use the term non national? If you are naturalised in Ireland, would you not be then classed as a national?

More likely to come from data shared by other tax authorities. I would also have thought the CB would have data on transfers.

riemann

I find the Lithuanian figure the most interesting.

Plenty of them caught up in the drug trade here, and those android TV boxes to get sky TV.

Two different crimes, but profiting from criminal activity all the same.

Roversfan1

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Since it is clear that Grealish only raised it to whip up racism, we should not waste a cent on investigating this nonsense.

Unreal, it's quite clear from the numbers that something is off and you can't get past your hatred for Noel Grealish.

Move past him as a person and look at the numbers.

It could be the WB, the Nigerian government, a criminal element in Ireland or Nigeria or criminal activity from people not even from Ireland or Nigeria or a whole number of other activities.....Once you muppets move past the race baiting crap surely you would agree numbers are not racist and must be looked into?

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

More likely to come from data shared by other tax authorities. I would also have thought the CB would have data on transfers.

How do you mean?