Business Closing

FortuneChip

Hey folks,

Any advice appreciated...

Left a good stable job to join a SMB a couple of months ago.

My first payslip (we're paid fortnightly) in the new place was a disaster, and set some alarm bells off.
Some outbound expenses meant that I had to be paid late in two installments over the next week rather than one on payday. ALARM BELLS.

Anyway, today the founder, just back from holidays, called us in to say the owner of the company has decided to close the business, effective this coming Friday (which is a payday as well).

I've been told I'll be paid up until that Friday (I've worked five weeks, they've paid me two to date, so I'm hoping I'm gettin the full three weeks owed, but that's another argument). Am I entitled to a minimum of two weeks or any such thing?

Anyway, I guess I just wanna know if there's any wrong-doing here, bar some common courtesy. Is the almost zero-notice legal?

Any kinda quick practices I should look to get sorted?
I've requested my P45 ASAP.

Happy Christmas

ibarelycare

What does your contract say about notice period? You may be entitled to be paid in lieu of notice, regardless of the date that the business is stopping operating.

P45s are no longer a thing, your employer will be submitting your pay and tax details to Revenue each payday, and you can view your up-to-date pay statement on MyAccount. You won't get a leaving document, your employer will simply report your finish date to Revenue on your final submission. You can enter your finish date yourself through MyAccount if you are finding it's not being updated quick enough (for instance if you start a new job quickly after this one finishes and you need to get your tax basis sorted).

Best of luck with the job search.

FortuneChip

Thanks for the response.

"Nil notice on up to & including 13 weeks" (which would cover my probation period)

Sound on P45 stuff, will likely update myself as it seems like these sort of admin issues played a part in the business closing

Thanks again.

FortuneChip

This one has proven to be a gift that keeps giving...
Not sure what I'm expecting here, could be just a rant, or what not.

So, following the verbal notification that the company was set to cease trading I decided to ask for some written confirmation that my contract was being terminated due to the company unable to pay me.
I'd only been in the role 5 weeks, so wanted to have some confirmation that A - I had not been fired from the position & B - I'd not voluntarily left the role (as I'm aware that can reflect poorly on any application for Jobseekers).

It took two days of chasing, but eventually I received a letter from the owner (as an e-mail attachment from my manager) stating that "We had high hopes for you in XYZ company, but unfortunately you have not reached the standards we had hoped for, and effective immediately, you will no longer be employed by XZY". The letter basically made it seem like I'd been fired.

I could get no response from my manager, so rang the owner himself. He quickly backtracked, saying that I'd not been fired, passing the book back to the manager who had broken the news to me regarding the company's situation, but he was fearful of me having something in writing stating the company was closing up etc. He made no effort to explain why he wrote such a shocking letter in the first place, which plainly stated the only reason I was being let go was due to my performance - which is 100% not the case.

I was obviously frustrated with the letter stating it was due to my performance. In my very first week I was shown financial numbers, and they were NOT positive. The company was negligent to even hire me, knowing they were in trouble. They failed to pay me my first paycheck on time, instead needing to make two separate payments over the course of a week.

The owner said if I "text" him what I wanted to appear in the letter, he'd re-send.
I gave a brief (vague) example of what I wanted, and an hour or two later, I received that exact phrase copy/pasted once again through the manager. Along the lines of "due to unforeseen events, not possible to keep you employed" etc etc.

There's a couple of things I've left to think
The company isn't closing up (at least not yet - and that's why he wouldn't put it in writing)
He's an absolute coward, trying to scare me away from anything stating it was performance based
The company was completely negligent and dishonest in hiring me without giving me vital information
I've been let go on false pretences

I'm now back on the job hunt, and that's my main focus.
But I wanted to see if it's worth my while chasing this up a bit further, looking for either a formal apology for the nonsense they've put me through. I'm wary that at the very least they'll be finishing off contracts with existing clients, so to a prospective employer, my reasoning for leaving the company won't look true, as the old company is still active.

DesperateDan

You were still under a probation right? So in reality if the company kept going they could still get rid of you whenever they wanted and tell you it was because your performance wasn't up to scratch.

FortuneChip

Thats part of the reason i didnt just go mental at them alright. They could have done that, but they didn't. At least not when verbally communicating what was happening.

Now I've two letters from the owner with two different reasons as to why my employment has ceased. It's all just very disingenuous.

I just feel they've really screwed me over. And I understand you don't have many entitlements when on probation, but they brought on someone that they couldn't afford to pay as per the terms of the contract they wrote. So to then say it was down to my performance is massively insulting to hear.

As I said, feel I'm just pissed off more than anything.

IITYWYBMAD

FortuneChip wrote: »

Thats part of the reason i didnt just go mental at them alright. They could have done that, but they didn't. At least not when verbally communicating what was happening.

Now I've two letters from the owner with two different reasons as to why my employment has ceased. It's all just very disingenuous.

I just feel they've really screwed me over. And I understand you don't have many entitlements when on probation, but they brought on someone that they couldn't afford to pay as per the terms of the contract they wrote. So to then say it was down to my performance is massively insulting to hear.

As I said, feel I'm just pissed off more than anything.

Sounds like you were given a raw deal, with regards to your employment and you're right to be frustrated about it. You now have a choice:

1) Focus your anger/resentment/etc on why you were treated this way or
2) Focus your anger/resentment/etc on getting new employment

Taking your posts as read, it appears to me you dodged a very large bullet with this employer.

FortuneChip

You're most likely right on Number 2 alright.

It's just frustrating to think that they knew they were in financial difficulty prior to hiring me, but hired me anyway.
The working co-owner told me that he had forgone paychecks in recent months like because the money wasn't there.
If I was privvy to this prior to joining, I wouldn't have joined.

Anyway, it does seem like I could waste a lot of time on things that won't benefit me, so let the job hunt begin.

meeeeh

FortuneChip wrote: »

You're most likely right on Number 2 alright.

It's just frustrating to think that they knew they were in financial difficulty prior to hiring me, but hired me anyway.
The working co-owner told me that he had forgone paychecks in recent months like because the money wasn't there.
If I was privvy to this prior to joining, I wouldn't have joined.

Anyway, it does seem like I could waste a lot of time on things that won't benefit me, so let the job hunt begin.

I agree they shouldn't hire you but no sane owner will advertise they are in trouble. Suppliers will instantly demand payment, there will be no credit extended, nobody will buy stuff of you and so on. If you look at it from perspective of a business you would be monumentally stupid to advertise you are broke or are closing down.

It's cruel to employ people in situation like this but your co workers will have more of a chance to be paid if closing down isn't advertised. I can understand why they didn't want to write the letter you wanted them to write.

FortuneChip

Back to cause more annoyance, so apologies in advance.

When I was still in the company, we were actually conducting interviews for new potential roles (really, it seemed like these were just fishing exhibitions to get info from other companies).

Anyway, some two weeks after being let go because the company was "closing up", I'm now seeing they hired one of these candidates with a job title that looks like a slight variation of what I had.

Again, I'm aware my probation period means they could just screw me over and say it was performance, but because I've a letter stating otherwise, if that company is still operating, AND bringing on new staff, can I safely say they've acted in completely bad faith, and do I have enough info on hand to start actually chasing this legally?

Enter name here

FortuneChip wrote: »

Back to cause more annoyance, so apologies in advance.

When I was still in the company, we were actually conducting interviews for new potential roles (really, it seemed like these were just fishing exhibitions to get info from other companies).

Anyway, some two weeks after being let go because the company was "closing up", I'm now seeing they hired one of these candidates with a job title that looks like a slight variation of what I had.

Again, I'm aware my probation period means they could just screw me over and say it was performance, but because I've a letter stating otherwise, if that company is still operating, AND bringing on new staff, can I safely say they've acted in completely bad faith, and do I have enough info on hand to start actually chasing this legally?

You can't be serious, you are entitled to nothing. You should have done your homework and investigated the company prior to accepting any role. Coming onto a public forum and suggesting they were trading whilst insolvent opens yourself up for litigation.

the_syco

FortuneChip wrote: »

The owner said if I "text" him what I wanted to appear in the letter, he'd re-send.
I gave a brief (vague) example of what I wanted, and an hour or two later, I received that exact phrase copy/pasted once again through the manager. Along the lines of "due to unforeseen events, not possible to keep you employed" etc etc.

As your position was not made redundant, I think that they are able to hire a replacement for you.

Jim2007

Enter name here wrote: »

You can't be serious, you are entitled to nothing. You should have done your homework and investigated the company prior to accepting any role. Coming onto a public forum and suggesting they were trading whilst insolvent opens yourself up for litigation.

Well first of all any decent solicitor will tell you that your are not entitled to anything under labour law that is true, but they would also tell you there there are many other avenues open in the circumstances.

Second, the OP in now way opened himself up to litigation as he has been very care not to disclose in anyway the company details.

FortuneChip

Enter name here wrote: »

You can't be serious, you are entitled to nothing. You should have done your homework and investigated the company prior to accepting any role. Coming onto a public forum and suggesting they were trading whilst insolvent opens yourself up for litigation.

Suggesting who were trading while insolvent? I'm not here to badmouth the company, I'm just trying to get as much information as I can. If im entitled to nothing, so be it. Yes, hindsight says I should have done my homework, but as I was acting in good faith in reaching an agreement when joining, I naively assumed they were too.

Appreciate the feedback of course, but suggesting I'm doing some dangerous coming onto a public forum and asking for advice is a little off the mark. I'm near anonymous here and have named nobody.