Why are men older in relationships?

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Tatum Thousands Sunlamp wrote: »

Erotica is words written down on a page. I'm not familiar with it, if there's an endemic problem with depictions of consent I would hope that would be addressed. It's a $1bn a year industry, it has a responsibility.

Porn is real human beings in front of a camera. It is an industry somewhere between 6 and 90 times the size of the erotica one.

There are other nuances to the argument (the disproportionate rates of premature death in the porn industry for example) but for starters let's boil it down to this apparently subtle difference between bodies and words.


I'm not anti-porn, I'm a regular consumer of it. I am anti porn which not only presents extreme acts of violence as a sexual fantasy but deliberately blurs the line between fantasy and what's actually going on, obviously not a SFW but you can look some articles about Facial Abuse's videos for a recent example of that. I am not an advocate of the idea that's it's more important to allow adults free unfettered access to pornographic material than it is to protect children from that access. I have lived through a decade where this consistent position has seen me apparently change from a sex positive open minded person to a repressed Helen Lovejoy too btw.

Amazon technically say that they don't allow incest, bestiality or non consent, but, in reality, they do. The non consent stuff is pretty extreme actually from what I have heard. Worse than porn I can guarantee.



Do you have a study on porn star suicides. I'd be shocked if it is disportionate or comes close to doctor deaths. Tbh, I trust the porn stars know what they're doing, and this is coming from someone who has talked to people in sex work.



In regards to blurring the line, there is no line in erotica as there is no consenting actress to tell you that the scene is mocked.



Funnilly enough, I am anti-porn as I don't like how it portrays men as homogenous dogs with erections who are always ready and I do worry about what effect that has on the woman's psyche.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Tbh, I trust the porn stars know what they're doing

Well, they don't. You might want to watch the eye-opening Netflix documentary Hot Girls Wanted — it shows a steady stream of clueless young women, many of them just turned 18, flocking to LA thinking they're going to make a load of money in the porn industry. They don't have managers, agents, or any other representation, and so they're inevitably exploited by unscrupulous producers who take advantage of their naiveté. Most of them last less than two years in the porn industry, and for the vast majority it is anything but a positive experience.

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Israel Brave Storage wrote: »

Well, they don't. You might want to watch the eye-opening Netflix documentary Hot Girls Wanted — it shows a steady stream of clueless young women, many of them just turned 18, flocking to LA thinking they're going to make a load of money in the porn industry. They don't have managers, agents, or any other representation, and so they're inevitably exploited by unscrupulous producers who take advantage of their naiveté. Most of them last less than two years in the porn industry, and for the vast majority it is anything but a positive experience.

I'd be curious about their bank account as they most probably make more in a few hours than you/I make all month.



I know of that documentary. If you're worried about the actresses, that's grand and I can see where you're coming from. If you're worried about the effect vs erotica, than it is dubious at best.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I'd be curious about their bank account as they most probably make more in a few hours than you/I make all month.

That's another misconception. Piracy has pushed down the profitability of porn, and thus what people can expect to earn.

For standard male-female scene, an actress who is not a big name could make as little as $500 before tax, and shooting that scene could take most of a working day.

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Israel Brave Storage wrote: »

That's another misconception. Piracy has pushed down the profitability of porn, and thus what people can expect to earn.

For standard male-female scene, an actress who is not a big name could make as little as $500 before tax, and shooting that scene could take most of a working day.

A beginner salary of 6000 per month for a three day work week. How horrible.

Edit: Perhaps this aside has gone on long enough as nobody is really giving good answers imo, and the the thread isn't about the effects of extreme erotica on female psyche?

nkl12xtw5goz70

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

A beginner salary of 6000 per month for a three day work week. How horrible.

That's $6,000 before taxes, health insurance, etc. — and LA is one of the most expensive cities in the US.

Women can earn more by doing more extreme scenes involving multiple men, rough sex, etc., which is what many of them end up doing.

It's hardly a lifestyle to be envied.

ArchXStanton

Funnily enough I came across this the other day, she mentions some of the facial abuse scenes she's done and how she now regrets them, unfortunately porn actors sign all rights they have to the content away to the company they're shooting for. 16:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZClnMJBT-NM

Snickers Man

mobileforest wrote: »

Would explain why James Bond actors can keep acting despite getting older but Bond girls are lucky to hit their 20s.

BS

Honor Blackman (pussy Galore) was about 40 when she starred in Goldfinger. Michelle Yeoh was 34/35 in Tomorrow Never Dies and Monica Bellucci was in her 50s when she appeared in Spectre.

And I still would.....:)

Raconteuse

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

A beginner salary of 6000 per month for a three day work week. How horrible.

Edit: Perhaps this aside has gone on long enough as nobody is really giving good answers imo, and the the thread isn't about the effects of extreme erotica on female psyche?

Or just answers you don't like? You kept bringing up the written word as worse than actual acts, and I don't understand how you can't see the flaw in that comparison. Or can you really not?

You also said it's not degrading for a woman to enjoy sexuality, which nobody said whatsoever. You're coming across as quite dishonest.

It's not a bit unreasonable to have reservations about what the porn in question depicts - violence and degradation - and to have concerns as to whether excessive consumption of this might cause a warped view of sex. Even if the actresses are paid well, not messed up, not mistreated, not doing loads of drugs to numb it (and the same can apply to men who work in the industry too) - what it actually depicts and normalises is what makes some people uncomfortable.

Another ghastly documentary is one called Hardcore. And Louis Theroux did a follow-up to his 90s examination of the industry, which did include people who enjoy it, but there were sad stories too - involving both men and women. Some had drug problems, emotional problems (one man in particular) and one is dead by suicide (a man). It's a harsh industry, and before someone says lots are - absolutely true, but that doesn't change anything.

I think consumers of that kind of porn just don't like being told these things because it makes them squirm, but such is life.

What does porn in LA have to do with men being older in relationships?

Raconteuse

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I think any man in a heterosexual relationship who falls foul to any mental games from his other half deserves all the emotional bullying he can get.

Nobody deserves emotional bullying - it creeps up insidiously too. That said, I think there is kinda an acceptance of the nagging wife cliche at times - sort of resigning to it instead of telling her he's a grown man who works hard and will go out when there is no reason for him not to.

Raconteuse

Deleted User wrote: »

What does porn in LA have to do with men being older in relationships?

What do numerous things on this thread have to do with it?

It's just grown arms and legs the way a lot of the more heated threads can.

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Raconteuse wrote: »

Or just answers you don't like? You kept bringing up the written word as worse than actual acts, and I don't understand how you can't see the flaw in that comparison. Or can you really not?

You also said it's not degrading for a woman to enjoy sexuality, which nobody said whatsoever. You're coming across as quite dishonest.

It's not a bit unreasonable to have reservations about what the porn in question depicts - violence and degradation - and to have concerns as to whether excessive consumption of this might cause a warped view of sex. Even if the actresses are paid well, not messed up, not mistreated, not doing loads of drugs to numb it (and the same can apply to men who work in the industry too) - what it actually depicts and normalises is what makes some people uncomfortable.

Another ghastly documentary is one called Hardcore. And Louis Theroux did a follow-up to his 90s examination of the industry, which did include people who enjoy it, but there were sad stories too - involving both men and women. Some had drug problems, emotional problems (one man in particular) and one is dead by suicide (a man). It's a harsh industry, and before someone says lots are - absolutely true, but that doesn't change anything.

I think consumers of that kind of porn just don't like being told these things because it makes them squirm, but such is life.

Yeah, I have not seen one good answer which says why what is portrayed in pornography is more of a negative effect on the psyche than erotica. I am not disagreeing because 'I don't like being told these things' (which you would know if you read my personal view of pornography), but it's because nobody has the ability to give a good answer or any logical argument.



Tbh, I think my comment on the female enjoyment struck a nerve. It was a throway comment, but some archaic people see a woman lustily enjoying animal sex as somehow lesser. I do wonder if that's one aspect of this 'degrading' stuff that's being spouted, but, as I said, it was a throwaway comment.



So, unless you or other posters have anything new to add, we should move on.

Edit: I'll give a few answers at this stage.

1) It's larger and more permeating. Rather than reading it and expanding mental energy, it is quicker and easier to internalize.

2) the visual element makes it easier to digest psychological cues.

3) The audio element makes it easier to digest psychological cues.

Reviews and Books Galore

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Yeah, I have not seen one good answer which says why what is portrayed in pornography is more of a negative effect on the psyche than erotica. I am not disagreeing because 'I don't like being told these things' (which you would know if you read my personal view of pornography), but it's because nobody has the ability to give a good answer or any logical argument.



Tbh, I think my comment on the female enjoyment struck a nerve. It was a throway comment, but some archaic people see a woman lustily enjoying animal sex as somehow lesser. I do wonder if that's one aspect of this 'degrading' stuff that's being spouted, but, as I said, it was a throwaway comment.



So, unless you or other posters have anything new to add, we should move on.

You really don't see why real people engaged in acts that many would consider dehumanising and degrading would likely make more of an impact on the perceptions of the viewer than reading words on a page, involving exactly zero people? There are none so blind as those who don't care to see.

Nobody has an issue with women enjoying sex. Nobody has said, alluded to, implied or even ambiguously worded anything that could be construed that way. If you see it, it's because you want to brush legitimate concerns aside as the preserve of the repressed prudes who just want to spoil other peoples fun.

Misrepresenting people as a means to dismissing them - or saying people who disagree with you are having a tantrum! - is childishly obvious and dishonest.

Raconteuse

Where has anyone said that women never enjoy animalistic sex? I'd say most women enjoy having their clothes torn off and a good hard fast ****. But choking by hands or penis, ejaculation on the eyes, anal gang banging that leads to rectal damage? Different matter entirely.

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Candie wrote: »

You really don't see why real people engaged in acts that many would consider dehumanising and degrading would likely make more of an impact on the perceptions of the viewer than reading words on a page, involving exactly zero people? There are none so blind as those who don't care to see.

Nobody has an issue with women enjoying sex. Nobody has said, alluded to, implied or even ambiguously worded anything that could be construed that way. If you see it, it's because you want to brush legitimate concerns aside as the preserve of the repressed prudes who just want to spoil other peoples fun.

Misrepresenting people as a means to dismissing them - or saying people who disagree with you are having a tantrum! - is childishly obvious and dishonest.

Why? Towards the bolded part. Maybe I'll answer it as nobody else seems to be able to?



A) It is a 'gateway' to dehumanization as the viewer is already dehumanizing somebody


b) It implies consent/normalisation towards the act as somebody is already consenting to it lustily.





Tbh, you are jumping to conclusions. I mentioned it was an aside and I never said anybody said it. And, you misread my post. I said if you did not reply then it is an internet form of a tantrum and I agree with that.

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Raconteuse wrote: »

Where has anyone said that women never enjoy animalistic sex? I'd say most women enjoy having their clothes torn off and a good hard fast ****. But choking by hands or penis, ejaculation on the eyes, anal gang banging that leads to rectal damage? Different matter entirely.

You do realize that choking is popular in erotica, and gangbanging is a growing niche in erotica?



You can argue that you are worried about the participants, which is grand, but you have not given one good reason why erotica gets a free pass. Tbh, I have had to give a few good reasons.



So, unless anybody has anything to add, should we move on?

Reviews and Books Galore

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

You do realize that choking is popular in erotica, and gangbanging is a growing niche in erotica?



You can argue that you are worried about the participants, which is grand, but you have not given one good reason why erotica gets a free pass. Tbh, I have had to give a few good reasons.



So, unless anybody has anything to add, should we move on?

You realise that erotica is words on a page and that porn involves flesh and blood people?

Niches in fantasy fiction are just that - fiction. Do you really not see the difference between fiction and lived experience?

Erotica doesn't get a free pass, but you must surely understand the difference between fact and fiction? Imagination and reality?

I'm just at a loss as to why you keep up this blatantly false equivilence.

Oh, and not replying to a post that doesn't make any particular point isn't a tantrum. Nobody is compelled to answer your posts, especially if what point you're trying to make is difficult to discern, if any is being made.

Snickers Man

Actually, some of us prefer the finer tune that can be played on an older fiddle;)

Tell them, Benny!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFMrZ9fP7xA

IAMAMORON

Raconteuse wrote: »

Nobody deserves emotional bullying - it creeps up insidiously too. That said, I think there is kinda an acceptance of the nagging wife cliche at times - sort of resigning to it instead of telling her he's a grown man who works hard and will go out when there is no reason for him not to.

That really was what I was on about. I wasn't trying to endorse bullying either.
But I would definitely try to stand up to them, a bit like. No one can agree with or condone bullying, but people need to step up to them.

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Candie wrote: »

You realise that erotica is words on a page and that porn involves flesh and blood people?

Niches in fantasy fiction are just that - fiction. Do you really not see the difference between fiction and lived experience?

Erotica doesn't get a free pass, but you must surely understand the difference between fact and fiction? Imagination and reality?

I'm just at a loss as to why you keep up this blatantly false equivilence.

Oh, and not replying to a post that doesn't make any particular point isn't a tantrum. Nobody is compelled to answer your posts, especially if what point you're trying to make is difficult to discern, if any is being made.

Choking isn't niche in erotica, it's par for the course.



Well, if it's a false equivilence, come up with your own reasons why the effect of extreme erotica is more extreme than the effect of extreme pornography.



But, I would prefer to move on as it's gotten to the point that I have had to give my own arguments agaisnt myself as nobody has been able to give a solid answer.



So, unless you have anything to add, let's move on.

EmmetSpiceland

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Choking isn't niche in erotica, it's par for the course.

Well, if it's a false equivilence, come up with your own reasons why the effect of extreme erotica is more extreme than the effect of extreme pornography.

But, I would prefer to move on as it's gotten to the point that I have had to give my own arguments agaisnt myself as nobody has been able to give a solid answer.

So, unless you have anything to add, let's move on.

What erotica are you reading, lad? Or are you just basing the whole thing on ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’ and it’s derivatives?

Any I’ve read has, for the most part, been set in a certain time “period” e.g. the court of an Italian count during the Renaissance.

I don’t think there was any BDSM in any of them, unless it was incredibly “mild”. Wrists tide to bedpost type stuff.

Do you think that there are many kids, say 14 years old, “consuming” vast amounts of erotic fiction? You’d have to say that if you found one of your, hypothetical, teenage kids reading an erotic novel you’d probably be impressed.

The way you’re going on is like comparing reading ‘Roy of the Rovers’ with watching live soccer, the two are very different “beasts”.

Woke Hogan

My wife used to read Mills and Boon books years ago, I’ll have to ask her but I doubt there was any choking, arse to arse play or bukkake in any of those stories.

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EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

What erotica are you reading, lad? Or are you just basing the whole thing on ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’ and it’s derivatives?

Any I’ve read has, for the most part, been set in a certain time “period” e.g. the court of an Italian count during the Renaissance.

I don’t think there was any BDSM in any of them, unless it was incredibly “mild”. Wrists tide to bedpost type stuff.

Do you think that there are many kids, say 14 years old, “consuming” vast amounts of erotic fiction? You’d have to say that if you found one of your, hypothetical, teenage kids reading an erotic novel you’d probably be impressed.

The way you’re going on is like comparing reading ‘Roy of the Rovers’ with watching live soccer, the two are very different “beasts”.

You'd be surprised.

Now, if nobody has anything to add, let's move on.

BorneTobyWilde

Woke Hogan wrote: »

My wife used to read Mills and Boon books years ago, I’ll have to ask her but I doubt there was any choking, arse to arse play or bukkake in any of those stories.

All that was done when you were at work.

beejee

I'd certainly believe that exposure to violence, pornography, degradation, suffering etc through media must have a detrimental effect.

The sheer scale of it is overwhelming.

Consider an alternate planet earth where all fictional depictions of violence was outright banned. Would you expect a different society between earth here, and that alternative earth?

Can't quantify of course, but qualitatively? Yeah, I'd be shocked if there was no impact.

beejee

Or an interesting experiment. Expose a dog to dog fighting on television several hours a day, for a year or two.

Would you expect a behavioural change?

IAMAMORON

The Japanese anime stuff was a game changer for me. I have never been so entertained by cartoons in my life, it is side splitting.

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beejee wrote: »

Or an interesting experiment. Expose a dog to dog fighting on television several hours a day, for a year or two.

Would you expect a behavioural change?

Men aren't dogs.

Irregardless, I'm going to ignore any posts in regards to porn on this thread. It'd getting silly.

Also, I mentioned the saturation aspect earlier, but at least you actually made some kind of argument.

Now, I'm off to read erotica :P

Woke Hogan

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

All that was done when you were at work.

My wife was never a housewife.

IAMAMORON

Woke Hogan wrote: »

My wife was never a housewife.

Have you spoken to her about this?

Woke Hogan

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Have you spoken to her about this?

She is well aware that she was never a housewife.

KathleenGrant

Snickers Man wrote: »

Actually, some of us prefer the finer tune that can be played on an older fiddle;)

Tell them, Benny!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFMrZ9fP7xA

You are not alone. I have had quite a bit of interest from guys a lot younger than me lately. Desperation probably

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KathleenGrant wrote: »

You are not alone. I have had quite a bit of interest from guys a lot younger than me lately. Desperation probably

Women get better with age the same way men do. The hips get larger, the lips more voluptous, and the face more expressive and the emotions heightened. Hell, even the cellulite makes the thighs and butt seem sexier and more lush imo.



Hmmmm, ironically that's a copliment that no older woman will take as a compliment.



Tbh, older women are also better in bed imo and more relaxed towards that aspect.

Bobblehats

Sugardaddy?! enter the milkymommy.

Deebles McBeebles

Bobblehats wrote: »

Sugardaddy?! enter the milkymommy.

The name definitely needs some work.

worded

Woke Hogan wrote: »

My wife was never a housewife.

The wife - she could have been a whore in the bedroom a Chef in the Kitchen and a lady in public ...

But she just go them in the wrong order ...

She was Whore in Public, a Lady in my bedroom etc

KathleenGrant

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Women get better with age the same way men do. The hips get larger, the lips more voluptous, and the face more expressive and the emotions heightened. Hell, even the cellulite makes the thighs and butt seem sexier and more lush imo.



Hmmmm, ironically that's a copliment that no older woman will take as a compliment.



Tbh, older women are also better in bed imo and more relaxed towards that aspect.

To be honest I am not sure I agree that women improve with age quite as well as men do but I do feel that a woman gets more self assured and comfortable about herself which is attractive in a way.
Better in bed? Well practice makes perfect they do say.

Wibbs

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

the cellulite makes the thighs and butt seem sexier and more lush imo.

Exsqueeze me? Wut?

Woke Hogan

Wibbs wrote: »

Exsqueeze me? Wut?

Definitely wishful thinking from an auld one.

Raconteuse

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Women get better with age the same way men do. The hips get larger, the lips more voluptous, and the face more expressive and the emotions heightened. Hell, even the cellulite makes the thighs and butt seem sexier and more lush imo.



Hmmmm, ironically that's a copliment that no older woman will take as a compliment.

"No" older woman? Hardly.

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Raconteuse wrote: »

"No" older woman? Hardly.

...that's great.

BorneTobyWilde

Woke Hogan wrote: »

My wife was never a housewife.

Yea I noticed she didn't make the bed afterwards

Woke Hogan

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yea I noticed she didn't make the bed afterwards

Considering that you mainly use your bed for getting your arse hallowed out by cocks with it’s no wonder she doesn’t want to touch your sheets.

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Woke Hogan wrote: »

Considering that you mainly use your bed for getting your arse hallowed out by cocks with it’s no wonder she doesn’t want to touch your sheets.

Woke? :P

Edit: I can't get the image of arse hallowed out by cocks out of my head :P It sounds like quite an ordeal I must admit

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Wibbs wrote: »

Exsqueeze me? Wut?

If the woman's fit I like a little bit of cellulite/stretch marks. Adds character imo.



It's the same how some women like a man's hands to be a little bit lined, wrinkly imo.

BorneTobyWilde

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Considering that you mainly use your bed for getting your arse hallowed out by cocks with it’s no wonder she doesn’t want to touch your sheets.