New NOx VRT levy

michellie

The majority of cars being registered so far have been low NOx, there's been the few that have had quite high amounts but these are from people who didn't research it properly/ have the organisation skills of a potato /or are returning to pay from last month.

colm_mcm

Michelle, you work within the NCTS/VRO/Revenue or something?

rabbitinlights

What's the best source of NOx information for specific cars?

I've used this http://www.emissionsfinder.com/ but it shows that a 2011 BMW 525D only has 27mg/km - so that would be €135 on top of VRT?

Then a 530D has 160mg/km?

That has to be an error on the 525d?

colm_mcm

It seems the only reliable source is the individual v5 document for the particular car.

elperello

KCross wrote: »

Yes and No.

If its a high polluting diesel you are after, then yes.

If its a newer Euro 6 diesel, will low emissions, it will have little or no effect on prices here (the tax can be as low as €40)... so thats the majority of cars since 2015, which is 70%+ of what will be imported.

There should still be plenty of value in going to the UK for those Euro 6 cars. Brexit on 1 Jan 2021 might be a bigger threat to imports than this tax though.

Take for instance the case of a young person starting out. Just getting going in a job with a 50km commute.

They won't be able to afford a Euro 6 anyway so will end up buying an older diesel at the higher dealer price.
Same environmental result just more money out of their pocket.

Of course eventually they will get promoted/better job and be able to afford something newer but for now they are caught.

KCross

elperello wrote: »

Take for instance the case of a young person starting out. Just getting going in a job with a 50km commute.

They won't be able to afford a Euro 6 anyway so will end up buying an older diesel at the higher dealer price.
Same environmental result just more money out of their pocket.

Not really... its one less poor diesel coming into the country. That person will more than likely do one of two things...

- Change the car they want to something with a better NOx figure (doesnt necessarily have to be Euro 6.... could be a smaller petrol or hybrid for example) for the same money.
- Buy a secondhand car here in which case we dont add another poor diesel to our fleet. They will be paying SIMI prices in this case but they have a choice.

Both of those are better for our environment and our emissions fines to the EU.

elperello wrote: »

Of course eventually they will get promoted/better job and be able to afford something newer but for now they are caught.

I agree they are somewhat caught in that they cant go to the UK for that cheaper diesel car they may have had their eye on. They will need to reassess and make a better choice which is the whole point of the tax... its to change behavior, like the plastic bag levy.

michellie

colm_mcm wrote: »

Michelle, you work within the NCTS/VRO/Revenue or something?

kc78

Am I right in thinking NOx is part of the VRT so a disabled driver won't have to pay due to the VRT exemption?

KCross

rabbitinlights wrote: »

What's the best source of NOx information for specific cars?

You should use the UK Vehicle cert agency. Its a bit of a pig of a site to use but it will be the best estimate you'll get.

https://carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/search-new-or-used-cars.aspx

The ultimate answer is on the V5 though.

rabbitinlights wrote: »

I've used this http://www.emissionsfinder.com/ but it shows that a 2011 BMW 525D only has 27mg/km - so that would be €135 on top of VRT?

Then a 530D has 160mg/km?

That has to be an error on the 525d?

The UK cert agency site lists those at 119 and 132 respectively so you'd be looking at €1600+ on top of normal VRT for those.

michellie

kc78 wrote: »

Am I right in thinking NOx is part of the VRT so a disabled driver won't have to pay due to the VRT exemption?

Yea exemptions cover Nox and vrt

Dakota Dan

Idbatterim wrote: »

Wothball of the imports from the uk, should the vrt on petrol diesel not climb and reduce it further for elecyric ? They are complaining about all the dirty diesels coming in !

When you pay the tax you can drive and pollute as much as you want.

elperello

KCross wrote: »

Not really... its one less poor diesel coming into the country. That person will more than likely do one of two things...

- Change the car they want to something with a better NOx figure (doesnt necessarily have to be Euro 6.... could be a smaller petrol or hybrid for example) for the same money.
- Buy a secondhand car here in which case we dont add another poor diesel to our fleet. They will be paying SIMI prices in this case but they have a choice.

Both of those are better for our environment and our emissions fines to the EU.



I agree they are somewhat caught in that they cant go to the UK for that cheaper diesel car they may have had their eye on. They will need to reassess and make a better choice which is the whole point of the tax... its to change behavior, like the plastic bag levy.

I was thinking more globally than locally on the basis that if the car is a good runner it will be clocking up the miles somewhere.
You are correct that it won't be Ireland's problem.

They have choices but all of them will take money from their pocket either in purchase price or fuel.

I expect this will change behavior but buying a shopping bag for €2 is an easier change to make than spending €2k extra on a car.

cnocbui

There's a lot bigger gap than €2k between the cost of EVs and ICE powered cars.

elperello

cnocbui wrote: »

There's a lot bigger gap than €2k between the cost of EVs and ICE powered cars.

There certainly is.

Even Richard Bruton said last week that it will be another four years until the EV will align with ICE.

About the only EV a young person starting out could afford is a second hand Leaf.

Just by the way, the young lads don't seem to go for the Leaf. I can't recall seeing any driving one.

McGiver

colm_mcm wrote:

I never mentioned Sweden or the Netherlands when responding to your incorrect statement that Ireland was the only EU country to not penalize diesel usage.

Alright. Ireland favours diesel, that's a different game altogether. The rest stands.

And I'd prefer Ireland to be Sweden rather than France. Not sure about you. Hope that suffices.

jmreire

For many people ( most in fact) their choice of transport, all other consideration's aside...Health, Climate change etc. Even with the best will in the world climate wise, will be governed by what they can afford, so if it suits their pockets to buy in England, despite extra import taxes etc, thats where they will go. Or at least until Brexit kick's in, but for now, as more and more 2nd hand cars enter the market in England, the price's there will drop and negate to a certain extent the NOx generated increases here,,,,so SIMI celebrations might be a bit premature ....

colm_mcm

The UK registers roughly 2.5 million new cars per year.

I think exports to Ireland peaked at around 100k, spread across different ages of car. I can’t see Ireland being a huge factor in UK used prices, but certainly values of specific models are being propped up by Irish buyers to a certain extent.

jmreire

colm_mcm wrote: »

The UK registers roughly 2.5 million new cars per year.

I think exports to Ireland peaked at around 100k, spread across different ages of car. I can’t see Ireland being a huge factor in UK used prices, but certainly values of specific models are being propped up by Irish buyers to a certain extent.

Yes I understand that, none the less, English motorists are facing the same ( and maybe even more extensive ) carbon reduction measures ( city centre bans, special taxes to be paid for car's " Over the Limit" emission wise etc), So this will mean a more and more of these vehicles will be on the market in the UK, and their values will drop accordingly. I know that the cars I am speaking about are diesel " bad emitters", but there will be good emitters too!! ( if such a thing exists!! ) and more acceptable to Irish buyers. The bottom line will remain, if a buyer fancies a particular, and he can buy it at a better price in the UK ( all factors taken into consideration, Taxes, Shipping etc) then he will still buy in the UK.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

elperello wrote: »

Take for instance the case of a young person starting out. Just getting going in a job with a 50km commute.

They won't be able to afford a Euro 6 anyway so will end up buying an older diesel at the higher dealer price.
Same environmental result just more money out of their pocket.

Of course eventually they will get promoted/better job and be able to afford something newer but for now they are caught.

Spot on. Dealers don't usually keep stock of used cars over 4 years old. Main dealers anyway. This means the nox tax does not affect them importing euro 6 from the UK. Not everybody has 20k to spend. Most diesels 12k and under are liable for the tax.

ELM327

So this is going to have an unexpected impact
It favours large engined petrol imports as the max petrol nox fee is 4.5k cheaper than diesel.

punisher5112

ELM327 wrote: »

So this is going to have an unexpected impact
It favours large engined petrol imports as the max petrol nox fee is 4.5k cheaper than diesel.

Nobody will buy big petrol engines unless it's got chape road tax.....( I know motor tax)

Look at the Camry as it's got a 2.5 engine but as it's hybrid the tax is cheap.

Loads of taxis going around with 2013/16 etc imports from Japan.

ELM327

But I was looking at potential cars for when I change the Tesla in 2-3 years, and one replacement I had been considering was a V12 TDI Audi Q7 but this hits the max Nox charge. Large petrol cars (eg W12 Continental, v12 7 series, v8 Charger SRT etc) do not have this nox penalty but have similar VRT as high value cars and similar road tax 2350.

colm_mcm

Hadn’t considered the used V12 TDI import market.

Buttercup10

Hi,
Can anyone answer a question for me please? I am bringing a car here from UK. It is being gifted to me by a family member. It was originally an Irish reg car, brought over there a few years ago and all relevant taxes and charges paid.
I have been informed this means I don't have to pay VRT. So if I don't have to pay the VRT does it mean I won't have to pay the new NOx charge? Any help appreciated!

punisher5112

Buttercup10 wrote: »

Hi,
Can anyone answer a question for me please? I am bringing a car here from UK. It is being gifted to me by a family member. It was originally an Irish reg car, brought over there a few years ago and all relevant taxes and charges paid.
I have been informed this means I don't have to pay VRT. So if I don't have to pay the VRT does it mean I won't have to pay the new NOx charge? Any help appreciated!

Depends did they reclaim the original vrt?

Buttercup10

punisher5112 wrote: »

Depends did they reclaim the original vrt?

No

punisher5112

Did they tell it was exported?

Buttercup10

punisher5112 wrote: »

Did they tell it was exported?

Sorry, tell who?!

punisher5112

Buttercup10 wrote: »

Sorry, tell who?!

Shannon/motor tax office

Buttercup10

punisher5112 wrote: »

Shannon/motor tax office

Oh. Yes, but they actually seem to know very little about NOx tbh.