New NOx VRT levy

cnocbui

Theanswers wrote: »

Thanks for your comment. I suppose those batteries really are good for the environment.

Anyways it's irrelevant, as my second point stands. We are wasting our time until the big boys do something.

Picture this - your on a sinking ship and spend your time patching the hairline cracks, but neglect the gapping holes in the side. No matter how hard you try unless the holes are addressed the ship is going to sink. Sorry for the analogy, best i could come up with!

Ireland's efforts wont even be reflected globally and the us as individuals will just pay more tax.

I always laugh as the way ministers describe climate change implies if we do this the problem is gone. It's NOT!

Good analogy. This is exactly why I detest the eco hypocrisy engaged in by Norway. I used to admire that Scandinavian good sense and moral do-goodery, but their drive to EV their vehicle fleet is embarrassing.

MarkN

Imports down well over 26.4% for Jan 2020 V 2019 - I assume NOx responsible for such a drop.

ELM327

MarkN wrote: »

Imports down well over 26.4% for Jan 2020 V 2019 - I assume NOx responsible for such a drop.

Possibly, or also the delays due to the implementation
Very few newly imported cars were registered at the start of the month

punisher5112

MarkN wrote: »

Imports down well over 26.4% for Jan 2020 V 2019 - I assume NOx responsible for such a drop.

Yes it would be.

cnocbui

Haven't they just provided an incentive to repair and keep old diesels running, rather than replace them? I know they are rather hoping people will go buy an EV, but the capital outlay required is a considerable disincentive.

Theanswers

Theanswers wrote: »

Thanks for your comment. I suppose those batteries really are good for the environment.

Anyways it's irrelevant, as my second point stands. We are wasting our time until the big boys do something.

Picture this - your on a sinking ship and spend your time patching the hairline cracks, but neglect the gapping holes in the side. No matter how hard you try unless the holes are addressed the ship is going to sink. Sorry for the analogy, best i could come up with!

Ireland's efforts wont even be reflected globally and the us as individuals will just pay more tax.

I always laugh as the way ministers describe climate change implies if we do this the problem is gone. It's NOT!

"My point was incorrect, my claim was wrong, but it doesn't matter because it's the internet and I can just waffle waffle waffle and make arguments that even a child would realise are common logical fallacies" would have been more honest.

RedorDead

mgn wrote: »

More down to weaker sterling and the country flooded with cars than it has to do with the NOX tax.

Incorrect. The age bracket showing the biggest decrease is the 6-9 years old bracket (-42% or -1100 cars) against the overall decrease of 24%. These are in general the most numerous and pollutant of imported cars so the nox import tax is doing exactly what it was intended to do.

mgn

RedorDead wrote: »

Incorrect. The age bracket showing the biggest decrease is the 6-9 years old bracket (-42% or -1100 cars) against the overall decrease of 24%. These are in general the most numerous and pollutant of imported cars so the nox import tax is doing exactly what it was intended to do.

The majority of car imported here were always 3 to 4 years old, so the high nox cars are now 5 years old and no value in importing them since sterling dropped in value, it is just as cheap to buy a 5 year old here now as import one even if there was no nox tax.

colm_mcm

MarkN wrote: »

Imports down well over 26.4% for Jan 2020 V 2019 - I assume NOx responsible for such a drop.

Without a doubt.

Bargain_Hound

I have been a bit out of the loop with the whole N0x levy. I almost imported a 2015 vRS a few months back but due to other commitments never got around to it. Decided to now take a look at the N0x levy on top of the VRT I was expecting to pay back then. An additional 2,000. I'll forget about it now and keep driving my Euro 4 diesel until it becomes uneconomical to tax (280 p/a currently) :rolleyes:

Really hadn't looked into the details of this levy, a bit shocked really how heavily it impacts older cars. Non euro-6 imports are going to plummet.

punisher5112

Bargain_Hound wrote: »

I have been a bit out of the loop with the whole N0x levy. I almost imported a 2015 vRS a few months back but due to other commitments never got around to it. Decided to now take a look at the N0x levy on top of the VRT I was expecting to pay back then. An additional 2,000. I'll forget about it now and keep driving my Euro 4 diesel until it becomes uneconomical to tax (280 p/a currently) :rolleyes:

Really hadn't looked into the details of this levy, a bit shocked really how heavily it impacts older cars. Non euro-6 imports are going to plummet.

Good.

We don't want or need the UK's dirt.

Hopefully it will help us have cleaner air but we as a small island can't change the world but at least our air should be cleaner in the long run.

Bargain_Hound

punisher5112 wrote: »

Good.

We don't want or need the UK's dirt.

Hopefully it will help us have cleaner air but we as a small island can't change the world but at least our air should be cleaner in the long run.

Perhaps you missed the bit where I said I'll continue to drive my older & dirtier car.

punisher5112

Bargain_Hound wrote: »

Perhaps you missed the bit where I said I'll continue to drive my older & dirtier car.

Yes I seen that but that will hopefully be taxed out of it or blow up....

cnocbui

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes I seen that but that will hopefully be taxed out of it or blow up....

Your attitude stinks. The Irish government did all in their power to force people into diesels. Gormley whacked the tax on petrol, whacked it on the motor tax and made the VRT for petrol cars prohibitive. The current situation is the governments fault and people shouldn't be financially forced, yet again.

And the gob5hites still are doing nothing about lowering the tax on petrol.

elperello

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes I seen that but that will hopefully be taxed out of it or blow up....

Easy there.
Funnily enough we tend to like cars on Motors Forum.

Let's just hope his diesel will find a good home.
Maybe with someone who lives in a rural area where the air pollution won't be such a big issue.

punisher5112

cnocbui wrote: »

Your attitude stinks. The Irish government did all in their power to force people into diesels. Gormley whacked the tax on petrol, whacked it on the motor tax and made the VRT for petrol cars prohibitive. The current situation is the governments fault and people shouldn't be financially forced, yet again.

And the gob5hites still are doing nothing about lowering the tax on petrol.

A 4 pot daysul wouldn't be missed and at euro4 we should be looking at getting them off the road.

I am behind a proper change and been stuck behind a car in traffic or even on the motorway and it spewing out all those toxins one can notice their breathing change from it.

db are getting rid of the 2006 buses this year and even though they were a great bus for some reason they smoke much more then the previous 2000-2005 model.

I can notice a huge issue in my breathing when getting a puff of the fumes from it.

All off the changes need to be affordable and for those that will or would struggle to change should be able to get credit for such a purchase.

ELM327

punisher5112 wrote: »

Good.

We don't want or need the UK's dirt.

Hopefully it will help us have cleaner air but we as a small island can't change the world but at least our air should be cleaner in the long run.

Did you not see that the impact of this tax was to take a notionally cleaner diesel and replace it with continuing to run the older diesel?

punisher5112

ELM327 wrote: »

Did you not see that the impact of this tax was to take a notionally cleaner diesel and replace it with continuing to run the older diesel?

I understand that but isn't it better to have less coming in as there is more then enough here already and hopefully it will push those that in no way need diesel to go hybrid or ev or at least petrol.

Isambard

I assume the next step will be to up the tax on diesel fuel. I believe my diesel is about half the cost on fuel of a petrol equivalent mile for mile. We are due to change next january and are looking at our options.

Notch000

Isambard wrote: »

I assume the next step will be to up the tax on diesel fuel. I believe my diesel is about half the cost on fuel of a petrol equivalent mile for mile. We are due to change next january and are looking at our options.

still amazing me that the government are apparently trying to phase out diesel and its still 10c/l (about 7%) cheaper at the pumps then petrol

Marcusm

Notch000 wrote: »

still amazing me that the government are apparently trying to phase out diesel and its still 10c/l (about 7%) cheaper at the pumps then petrol

Duty on diesel is 12 c/l lower than petrol. In general the raw cost of diesel is higher than petrol. Irish tax makes it cheaper (stupidly).

elperello

Marcusm wrote: »

Duty on diesel is 12 c/l lower than petrol. In general the raw cost of diesel is higher than petrol. Irish tax makes it cheaper (stupidly).

I would have expected that they might reduce petrol by 1c and increase diesel by 1c each year until they are level.

No drama, no hardship and at least we would know where we are going.

cnocbui

elperello wrote: »

I would have expected that they might reduce petrol by 1c and increase diesel by 1c each year until they are level.

No drama, no hardship and at least we would know where we are going.

No, they should change the tax regime at the same rate they did between 2007 and 2008, when tax on petrol jumped from being 54.4% of the price to 63% - a 8.6 % increase in one go.

elperello

cnocbui wrote: »

No, they should change the tax regime at the same rate they did between 2007 and 2008, when tax on petrol jumped from being 54.4% of the price to 63% - a 8.6 % increase in one go.

Well that would be a brave approach.
Guaranteed drama and hardship.
I doubt it would go down too well in rural areas.

cnocbui

elperello wrote: »

Well that would be a brave approach.
Guaranteed drama and hardship.
I doubt it would go down too well in rural areas.

Apart from trade in values declining, reducing the price of petrol wouldn't affect diesel running costs.

elperello

cnocbui wrote: »

Apart from trade in values declining, reducing the price of petrol wouldn't affect diesel running costs.

Sorry I misunderstood.
You would propose just decreasing petrol and leaving diesel as is?

cnocbui

elperello wrote: »

Sorry I misunderstood.
You would propose just decreasing petrol and leaving diesel as is?

Yes, and reduce the motor tax on petrol cars to well below diesels. Use carrots; far too much using the stick has been going on.

Isambard

it would have to be a long way cheaper. Diesel is about half the price of petrol per km

colm_mcm

Isambard wrote: »

it would have to be a long way cheaper. Diesel is about half the price of petrol per km

What cars are you comparing?

cnocbui

Isambard wrote: »

it would have to be a long way cheaper. Diesel is about half the price of petrol per km

if you take the higher purchase cost of diesels into consideration, this is not true. Their lifetime ownership cost only breaks even with petrol cars around the 90 - 120 K miles mark due to their higher purchase price. This is why 75% of cars sold in Ireland prior to Gormley's idiocy, were petrol. After the tax changes, it reversed to over 75% of cars being diesel - the wonderful position we are now in, thanks to 'eco'-engineering by the government

The refining process of crude oil produces 73.8L of petrol and 34L of diesel from a barrel of oil. If these are on-sold at the same rate of profit and tax, there would essentially be no cost advantage to a diesel ever, as a 32 mpg petrol car would then be effectively getting the equivalent of 69.5 mpg in diesel terms.