New NOx VRT levy

colm_mcm

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

Does the VRT Calculator on revenue.ie take it into account? I just did an example calculation there and it doesn't mention anything about NOx, just CO2.
The example I did had an OMSP of €20154 and CO2 falling into 18% bracket.
Vehicle Registration Tax: €3627 (which is 18% of €20154). Is there an NOx charge on top of that or is it included in the €3627?

It hasn’t been updated yet, but www.cartell.ie will give you a € figure for nox from the reg number.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

Does the VRT Calculator on revenue.ie take it into account? I just did an example calculation there and it doesn't mention anything about NOx, just CO2.
The example I did had an OMSP of €20154 and CO2 falling into 18% bracket.
Vehicle Registration Tax: €3627 (which is 18% of €20154). Is there an NOx charge on top of that or is it included in the €3627?

Yes there is my friend. Be careful asking questions here though, some trolls with nothing better to do will chew your head off for not knowing that already.

Villain

The Revenue VRT page does have more info now with a spreadsheet giving lots of models costs https://revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/calculating-the-nox-charge.aspx

Also the Cartell.ie free query shows it now but I actually think a lot of people will end up the like OP's friend and just use the VRT Calculator along with sterling conversion and think that is the figure.

If Cartell can implement it you would wonder why Revenue can't do it quicker.

Good news is less imports of dirty diesels from now on and another interesting point is I wonder how it will impact re-sale values of older diesels here?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

CoBo55 wrote: »

Well, the first link tells that importing a golf will be a lot more expensive and warns to check first before committing, make sure you have the nox figure that will be accepted by the inspector etc. Nah, he only has himself to blame.

The first link? Oh yeah I see what you mean, the link posted here. Good man. I think he expected a 1 stop shop for all expected charges when he went through the vrt website to calculate what to pay. What was he thinking? Imagine a site that gave you the full figure you are expected to pay. Now there is an idea.

colm_mcm

That sounds more a Shelbyville idea.

ChippingSodbury

colm_mcm wrote: »

It hasn’t been updated yet, but www.cartell.ie will give you a € figure for nox from the reg number.

You'd expect that the Calculator would have been updated at this stage. Or at least a statement outlining that there is also an NOx charge on top (instead of giving a Total, which is only a sub-total!)

colm_mcm

They state that it doesn’t include the nox on the landing page for the calculator, however it’s just thrown into a list of things the calculator does, and isn’t nearly prominent enough.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

You'd expect that the Calculator would have been updated at this stage. Or at least a statement outlining that there is also an NOx charge on top (instead of giving a Total, which is only a sub-total!)

Yip. The point I was trying to make. Sure if you can save 1...........

mikeecho

Les Paul wrote: »

Lol. The only effort is reading something in the lifestyle section. Hardly prominent.

It was also mentioned on the 5.30 news, the 6.01 news, 9pm news.
Every budget supplement that came with various papers .

It was mentioned in multiple news websites, in various sections, news, financial, motors, lifestyle etc.

But unless it comes through the door with a golden invite, they have failed.

A little research was all that was needed.

But let's not get caught up in reality, let's find a Scape goat.

michellie

You'd be surprised the amount of people who aren't aware of it.

I agree revenue should have made more awareness of it and there should be a calculator by now.

I know revenue's IT system is massively complicated and it takes ages to make changes. It took forever to get them to change the current Vrt calculator - you used to be able to amend the Co2 but it just meant people throwing in information that was completely incorrect then rocking up for an appointment being shocked at the vrt amount.

But at the moment this is making life very difficult for people (and me listening to them )

Pay and appeal is all you can do- for anyone who imported last month.

astrofool

If you're going to the complication of importing a car, then surely you have the brain cells to double check the tax situation first. Your "friend" sounds like he was going for a bargain, didn't get one, and now blaming the system rather than himself.

Whocare

Les Paul wrote: »

Warning Check nox level before importing.



A friend of mine brought over a Jag xf from the uk in December.
He made the appointment to pay the vrt. They gave him a date
in Jan. When he went there they wanted an extra €3100 from him
for the new nox charge introduced from 1st Jan 2020. Very little
in the press on this but it more or less wipes out any saving you
would expect by purchasing in the UK. I've included the table pricing
below. (this is on top of the vrt)

Commenting on Budget 2020, SIMI Director General Brian Cooke

"SIMI is relieved that the Minister has not increased VRT for new cars in Budget 2020.
The replacement of the 1% diesel surcharge introduced last year on new cars with a nitrogen oxide
(NOx) emissions-based charge to all passenger cars registering for the first time in the State from
1 January 2020 is a welcome announcement."

(I'm sure it is to some but not your average punter. Check the charges in attachment below)

If he got a good deal it might be worth selling/ trading it in up north And then buy something different ?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

mikeecho wrote: »

It was also mentioned on the 5.30 news, the 6.01 news, 9pm news.
Every budget supplement that came with various papers .

It was mentioned in multiple news websites, in various sections, news, financial, motors, lifestyle etc.

But unless it comes through the door with a golden invite, they have failed.

A little research was all that was needed.

But let's not get caught up in reality, let's find a Scape goat.

Hahahaha golden invite, caught up in reality. Laughing here. No doubt about what you are saying but it's hardly front page news. Anyway an article like that wouldn't be of much interest to anybody who is not in the market for a car at the time an article was published. I still believe it should be more clear on the VRT website. Do you?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

astrofool wrote: »

If you're going to the complication of importing a car, then surely you have the brain cells to double check the tax situation first. Your "friend" sounds like he was going for a bargain, didn't get one, and now blaming the system rather than himself.

Sound lad nice comment. I especially like your use of inverted commas, that's a nice touch.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Whocare wrote: »

If he got a good deal it might be worth selling/ trading it in up north And then buy something different ?

I think he will pay it and go through the refund process with revenue. He should have a case if he presented in December

piobhan

User1998 wrote: »

Put in the car details here and add €270.

https://www.ros.ie/evrt-enquiry/vrtenquiry.html?execution=e1s2

You might be able to get the €270 back if you appeal it

Strangely the VRT was 3400 when I checked in December before purchasing the car, Checking last night with the same car and mileage etc it has increased almost €1,100 euro from approx. €3,400 to €4,500. And I don't think the €4,500 figure includes the NOX figure.

Why the jump of 1100 euro?!

CoBo55

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Every single one of your replies is snarky.

Nothing new there, somebody has to be blamed.

michellie

piobhan wrote: »

Strangely the VRT was 3400 when I checked in December before purchasing the car, Checking last night with the same car and mileage etc it has increased almost €1,100 euro from approx. €3,400 to €4,500. And I don't think the €4,500 figure includes the NOX figure.

Why the jump of 1100 euro?!

OMSP can go up. I've seen a lot with low NOx go up this week. Some have gone down a lot too.

aaakev

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Every single one of your replies is snarky.

I would be too if "my friend " got an extra bill of €3,100

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Every single one of your replies is snarky.

I disagree, any reasonable comment got a reasonable reply. For example to the people who were unaware. I'm just not taking the bait from trolls who seek to abuse. What's the problem there?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

CoBo55 wrote: »

Nothing new there, somebody has to be blamed.

Who am I blaming?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

michellie wrote: »

You'd be surprised the amount of people who aren't aware of it.

I agree revenue should have made more awareness of it and there should be a calculator by now.

I know revenue's IT system is massively complicated and it takes ages to make changes. It took forever to get them to change the current Vrt calculator - you used to be able to amend the Co2 but it just meant people throwing in information that was completely incorrect then rocking up for an appointment being shocked at the vrt amount.

But at the moment this is making life very difficult for people (and me listening to them )

Pay and appeal is all you can do- for anyone who imported last month.

100% correct

Truckermal

Why are you so upset about it when it's not costing you?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Truckermal wrote: »

Why are you so upset about it when it's not costing you?

I'm not upset at all. I just think there should be more awareness and I think the way revenue have gone about it's implementation is slightly cynical. IMO it is to protect the car trade here. The reason I think this, is because the new charge = almost exactly the same amount you would save by importing a car from the uk. As soon as Brexit was announced (many moons ago) there was an article stating that revenue were going to slap 18% increase on the vrt. The reason I know this is it pushed me into buying a 4 year old Merc up north last year. I advised my friend to go that way last year. He is Italian and I explained to him how the VRT system works. He went on the site and didn't read the fine print I guess. If we do our budget in October or whatever it gives enough time to update a website. I work in IT and it really is not that difficult. They knew it was coming so why were they not prepared?

Truckermal

Well the easiest thing to do is return the Car for a Nox friendly one, I wouldn't be paying that for a Jag anyway as it will be worth nothing in a few years.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Truckermal wrote: »

Well the easiest thing to do is return the Car for a Nox friendly one, I wouldn't be paying that for a Jag anyway as it will be worth nothing in a few years.

You're right there mate but hey it's not my money.

scoopdog

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

You'd expect that the Calculator would have been updated at this stage. Or at least a statement outlining that there is also an NOx charge on top (instead of giving a Total, which is only a sub-total!)

Why would revenue update anything on time, ive imported cars before & i did see this coming before the budget last year , its a scam plain & simple. Ireland once again the only country in Europe to implement Nox ?? , you have to wonder.

So if you want to bring in a jeep , €4500 tax ?? Come on

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Les Paul wrote: »

Good for you. Yeah the info is all there but he is Italian and probably missed it in the print. I think he did expect to be informed of the change out of courtesy when he presented in December and they gave him a January appointment date. I don't think that that is an unreasonable expectation

Your friend, I mean you, should have informed yourself of the process. There's no one to to blame here but you. You're a fully grown adult, you don't need anyone to hold your hand anymore.

Les Paul wrote: »

Who am I blaming?

Everyone except yourself.

scoopdog

colm_mcm wrote: »

They state that it doesn’t include the nox on the landing page for the calculator, however it’s just thrown into a list of things the calculator does, and isn’t nearly prominent enough.

ill give you a laugh, i went into the revenue website, im looking at bringing a jeep in from japan, the revenue excel spreadsheet that you download doesn't even have the model, and they've basically slammed anything above a certain nox level particularly diesels into a box that's so expensive its not worth the pain.

Revenue never researched this you can bet some idiot from the Green party ran into them last june and threw this on there desk

scoopdog

colm_mcm wrote: »

That’s class.

The Nox on mine is actually €2300 and not €1750 as I’d thought.

On a separate note, my old Shogun 2.8 was 331g/km Co2

Absolute joke, they are basically trying to kill off diesel. Wait and see in 10 years time there going to tax people for having Hybrids and battery operated cars

colm_mcm

There’s plenty diesel cars the same year as mine with way lower nox to be fair.
Kills the early 2015 and older market though.

garv123

Is this just for private vehicles or commercials too? anything I read didnt specify?

scoopdog

colm_mcm wrote: »

There’s plenty diesel cars the same year as mine with way lower nox to be fair.
Kills the early 2015 and older market though.

Absolutely, the newer the better of course, but for ex. on the revenue VRT calculator a Toyota Hilux 2.4 (commercial) €340. A Toyota Hilux Surf (not a commercial same engine €4500 , same Nox output ?? where's the sense.

I get that diesels are now a curse, especially since the VW scandal, but if the current government think that banishing diesels with a population of 3 million people is going to save the planet, man were all doomed. 250 million of our neighbors certainly not getting this hammered.

Hybrid cars in Germany right now , 8% of the total car volume, they dont give a hoot about pollution, lets be honest about it

RedorDead

Villain wrote: »

The Revenue VRT page does have more info now with a spreadsheet giving lots of models costs https://revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/calculating-the-nox-charge.aspx

Also the Cartell.ie free query shows it now but I actually think a lot of people will end up the like OP's friend and just use the VRT Calculator along with sterling conversion and think that is the figure.

If Cartell can implement it you would wonder why Revenue can't do it quicker.

Good news is less imports of dirty diesels from now on and another interesting point is I wonder how it will impact re-sale values of older diesels here?

Public sector vs Private sector is all you need to know there!

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

Dogg Munde wrote: »

Your friend, I mean you, should have informed yourself of the process. There's no one to to blame here but you. You're a fully grown adult, you don't need anyone to hold your hand anymore.



Everyone except yourself.

Wow seriously? I'd have no issue with sharing that story if it was mine but sorry to disappoint, it's not. I pointed a mate in that direction because I imported a merc last year. I'm curious about the paranoid assumption though. What's it based on? You sound really convinced. I do have friends. Sounds a lot like mirrored projection to me.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

scoopdog wrote: »

ill give you a laugh, i went into the revenue website, im looking at bringing a jeep in from japan, the revenue excel spreadsheet that you download doesn't even have the model, and they've basically slammed anything above a certain nox level particularly diesels into a box that's so expensive its not worth the pain.

Revenue never researched this you can bet some idiot from the Green party ran into them last june and threw this on there desk

That is funny but not at all surprising. I'd say more than likely it was some motor association lobby group though. It's in their interest

emeldc

Les Paul wrote: »

That is funny but not at all surprising. I'd say more than likely it was some motor association lobby group though. It's in their interest

Was it not motor dealers including main dealers that were importing the vast majority of used cars?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

emeldc wrote: »

Was it not motor dealers including main dealers that were importing the vast majority of used cars?

Yeah I believe you are right. It was still cheaper for an individual to import though. That's been cut out now which reduces consumer options and gives them a monopoly. Irish cars couldn't compete on price but now they can.

richardsheil

It hasn't of course, all you have to do is pick a low NOX car which is the purpose of the tax, after all.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

richardsheil wrote: »

It hasn't of course, all you have to do is pick a low NOX car which is the purpose of the tax, after all.

This is very true and also in line with government policy. It's actually quite a clever way of reducing diesel cars by 2030. How they went about it wasn't good in regards to the vrt website

Dave147

Truckermal wrote: »

Why are you so upset about it when it's not costing you?

and herein lies the reason this country is the way it is. Sit back and take the rogering the government are giving us, every ****ing thread on here you have your usual brigade up on their high horses defending every last corrupt tax there is. I'm upset about it and I've no intention of importing a car in the near future, they are trying to promote electric vehicles and look at the state of the infrastructure ffs. Ah I dunno why I even bother.

colm_mcm

Nox charge has very little to do with promoting electric vehicles, and has little or no impact on new diesels, nearly new (under 5 year old) diesels, or petrol cars.

CtrlAltDelete

Dave147 wrote: »

and herein lies the reason this country is the way it is. Sit back and take the rogering the government are giving us, every ****ing thread on here you have your usual brigade up on their high horses defending every last corrupt tax there is. I'm upset about it and I've no intention of importing a car in the near future, they are trying to promote electric vehicles and look at the state of the infrastructure ffs. Ah I dunno why I even bother.

Spot on.

CtrlAltDelete

Good ole Ireland.. gona change the worlds problems by railing its own people with taxation everywhere they turn.. Wana really sort it out..? Revert to this thread

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057975838&page=16

And stop buying new cars entirely. Even for just 2 months...

Philb76

astrofool wrote: »

If you're going to the complication of importing a car, then surely you have the brain cells to double check the tax situation first. Your "friend" sounds like he was going for a bargain, didn't get one, and now blaming the system rather than himself.

Is that not why most people import from the UK or is it for the nicer paint colour

markpb

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

Good ole Ireland.. gona change the worlds problems by railing its own people with taxation everywhere they turn.. Wana really sort it out..? Revert to this thread

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057975838&page=16

And stop buying new cars entirely. Even for just 2 months...

I think you’re missing the point. The new tax is on NoX gases which are produced by the engine and emitted into the air in Ireland. Reducing the number of them in Ireland is a good thing for people breathing air here.

The production of new cars emits large amounts of Co2 which are bad for the world as a whole.

landmarkjohn

Thanks OP. I read a bit about NOx and was under the impression it would add €100-300 on an import.

I did not know it could add thousands!

CtrlAltDelete

markpb wrote: »

I think you’re missing the point. The new tax is on NoX gases which are produced by the engine and emitted into the air in Ireland. Reducing the number of them in Ireland is a good thing for people breathing air here.

The production of new cars emits large amounts of Co2 which are bad for the world as a whole.

Don't worry... I'm not missing the point.. it's just another tax to help curtail imports..

When the public transport, trucks etc change I will take notice. I'm happy to scream around in my 3 litre diesel for long enough !

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

landmarkjohn wrote: »

Thanks OP. I read a bit about NOx and was under the impression it would add €100-300 on an import.

I did not know it could add thousands!

400% increase in comparison to the previous 1% levy in many cases

Widdensushi

Dave147 wrote: »

and herein lies the reason this country is the way it is. Sit back and take the rogering the government are giving us, every ****ing thread on here you have your usual brigade up on their high horses defending every last corrupt tax there is. I'm upset about it and I've no intention of importing a car in the near future, they are trying to promote electric vehicles and look at the state of the infrastructure ffs. Ah I dunno why I even bother.

I think this tax is to help the car dealers in Ireland. They have been lobbying against the influx of imports for years and this makes it a less attractive option for many