New NOx VRT levy

Buttercup10

Buttercup10 wrote: »

Oh. Yes, but they actually seem to know very little about NOx tbh.

Or at least the person I spoke to didn't. Though they were nice!

CtrlAltDelete

On the subject of the ole NOx charge / just another tax can someone explain this to me ? 3 x 2.0 litre BMW engines all 3 are the same engine... 3 different values.

mgn

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

On the subject of the ole NOx charge / just another tax can someone explain this to me ? 3 x 2.0 litre BMW engines all 3 are the same engine... 3 different values.

Don't trust Cartell, their figures are all over the place.

KCross

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

On the subject of the ole NOx charge / just another tax can someone explain this to me ? 3 x 2.0 litre BMW engines all 3 are the same engine... 3 different values.

Each model will be different. The ones you've listed are different variations (M-Sport etc) and from different years as well, so will have different figures.

Simple things like tyres sizes will affect the figures. Its not just a case of it being the same shape car and the same size engine therefore same NOx figure.

The only true source of truth is the reg document for that car but those cartell figures align with the figures I see in the UK certification site that I posted earlier in this thread.

CtrlAltDelete

Oh... So MSport models have a different engine do they ? Really...

KCross

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

Oh... So MSport models have a different engine do they ? Really...

No, Im not saying that. Be smart if you like... Im only answering your question.

You posted a 2012 and a 2017 car and asked why they'd have different NOx values! :rolleyes:

CtrlAltDelete

KCross wrote: »

No, Im not saying that. Be smart if you like... Im only answering your question.

You posted a 2012 and a 2017 car and asked why they'd have different NOx values! :rolleyes:

You're not answering my question though, you're just posting useless content.

And actually I posted 3 cars.. a March 2012, a Sept 2013 which is the LCI model so I can see that perhaps the engine refinement could perhaps cause a difference but the 3rd car, a Sept 2016 is the exact same engine as the Sept 2013 car.

User1998

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

You're not answering my question though, you're just posting useless content.

And actually I posted 3 cars.. a March 2012, a Sept 2013 which is the LCI model so I can see that perhaps the engine refinement could perhaps cause a difference but the 3rd car, a Sept 2016 is the exact same engine as the Sept 2013 car.

He did answer your question and the information he gave was correct. One car was Efficient dynamics, one was LCI, the other was M Sport. Something as small as having 19 inch alloys over 18 inch alloys can make a huge difference to the nox levels a car produces. So obviously m sport/lci/efficient dynamics and a 4 year difference in the cars being compared will also change the nox levels. Sure even look at the co2 levels they also change. Do they not have different bhp outputs as well? That would make a difference too

KCross

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

You're not answering my question though, you're just posting useless content.

And actually I posted 3 cars.. a March 2012, a Sept 2013 which is the LCI model so I can see that perhaps the engine refinement could perhaps cause a difference but the 3rd car, a Sept 2016 is the exact same engine as the Sept 2013 car.

I did answer your question and pointed you to the authority that certifies the car in the UK.

Its not just the engine size/model. Its the stuff around it as well like emission controls, bhp/tuning and tyre sizes, etc. The one you picked(or cartell is showing) is not the exact same variation and so the figure is different.

Go check the site I posted earlier and you'll see the differences.

User1998

User1998 wrote: »

He did answer your question and the information he gave was correct. One car was Efficient dynamics, one was LCI, the other was M Sport. Something as small as having 19 inch alloys over 18 inch alloys can make a huge difference to the nox levels a car produces. So obviously m sport/lci/efficient dynamics and a 4 year difference in the cars being compared will also change the nox levels. Sure even look at the co2 levels they also change. Do they not have different bhp outputs as well? That would make a difference too

Utter rubbish ... unless it's accompanied by some sensor tweaks during testing like Volkswagen did ...

CtrlAltDelete

Deleted User wrote: »

Utter rubbish ... unless it's accompanied by some sensor tweaks during testing like Volkswagen did ...

Thanks.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Utter rubbish ... unless it's accompanied by some sensor tweaks during testing like Volkswagen did ...

Different size tyres affect fuel consumption and NOx is measured per km so it can affect it. I wouldnt say it hugely affects it but it can affect it to the point that each variation needs to be tested and given its own value... again, not just one value given based on just the size/model of the engine. Sure even a software change in the ECU can change the emissions figures.... talk to VW, they know!

If you look at the agency that tests it in the UK they list each model and in some cases list the same one based on different tyre size.

I presume they know a thing or two about NOx!

User1998

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Utter rubbish ... unless it's accompanied by some sensor tweaks during testing like Volkswagen did ...

Its a well known fact that wheel size increases co2 output. Having a car with one inch bigger wheels can put your car into a higher co2 band and thus increase your vrt. It also increases fuel economy and as said above nox is measured per km so using more fuel per km is going to effect the nox produced in a kilometre.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.fleetnews.co.uk/amp/news/fleet-industry-news/2018/06/15/wltp-vehicle-protocol-will-influence-wheel-and-tyre-choices-says-kw

L-M

They could have also been tested different.

CtrlAltDelete

There's no point debating it here.. the majority seem happy enough just to keep their heads down and pay whatever tax the clownshop of a government dreams up !

colm_mcm

Not really. It’s a tax you’ll only really know the full extent of once you’re actually importing a car.
You won’t get the buy in from the anti-everything brigade because they don’t understand it, and it doesn’t directly affect them now.
Nobody would want to be seen to protest a tax that saves peoples health, no matter how ham-fisted it’s implementation, or how obvious it’s ulterior purpose is.

This tax and the difficulty in accurately calculating it will also create a barrier to the average punter importing from the uk, even if the tax itself isn’t significant in every case.

CtrlAltDelete

colm_mcm wrote: »

Not really. It’s a tax you’ll only really know the full extent of once you’re actually importing a car.
You won’t get the buy in from the anti-everything brigade because they don’t understand it, and it doesn’t directly affect them now.
Nobody would want to be seen to protest a tax that saves peoples health, no matter how ham-fisted it’s implementation, or how obvious it’s ulterior purpose is.

This tax and the difficulty in accurately calculating it will also create a barrier to the average punter importing from the uk, even if the tax itself isn’t significant in every case.

Oh look.. another "all of a sudden everything is green " merchant.

It's a tax.. end of.. SIMI moaned and got their way.

Almost EVERYTHING in Ireland is based on economy because we are an oppressed nation. If people are importing diesel cars that are a few years old it's not because they wanted a short holiday to the UK.

If a Frenchman buys a car in Germany does he pay VRT ?

colm_mcm

Did you even read the post you’re quoting?

Also- Do you know that Ireland isn’t the only European country to have registration tax on new and used cars, and that there are other European countries with far higher registration taxes?

CtrlAltDelete

colm_mcm wrote: »

Did you even read the post you’re quoting?

Also- Do you know that Ireland isn’t the only European country to have registration tax on new and used cars, and that there are other European countries with far higher registration taxes?

Listen to your waffle. You're clearly of the green mentality. So don't eat anything from a supermarket or go on holidays on a plane .

I'm not even wasting my time replying any further to you.. so fire ahead now with some more dribble...

Good luck.

colm_mcm

How am I of the green mentality? I just imported a Euro 5 diesel just before the nox tax came in.

Your idea that people will just pay an extra €2000-4000 on top of VRT because Leo says so is bizzare. I can only conclude that you’re either trolling or incapacitated.

McGiver

CtrlAltDelete wrote:

Listen to your waffle. You're clearly of the green mentality. So don't eat anything from a supermarket or go on holidays on a plane .

Better green than diesel head.

And your black and white simplification of world is typical of people who didn't (or couldn't) think stuff through much.

thadg

Is there any website that shows the NOX emissions for each car or even by putting in a uk/irl reg number? EG how do i know the nox levels for a 2012 520d m sport without having the V5 in front of me?
Looks like the euro 5 3.0 d engines by bmw are only approx 500 extra, if my calculation is right, but i may be wrong. Its sad that revenue cant have it built into the vrt price automatically. They had long enough to sort it. It is confusing on purpose by them

KCross

thadg wrote: »

Is there any website that shows the NOX emissions for each car or even by putting in a uk/irl reg number? EG how do i know the nox levels for a 2012 520d m sport without having the V5 in front of me?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112258725&postcount=282

commited

A good trick is to check if the car is ULEZ compliant in the UK, i.e.Euro 6.
Just stick the UK reg in here:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle-35896
If it states it is ULEZ compliant, you know that your NOX tax is capped at €600

User1998

commited wrote: »

A good trick is to check if the car is ULEZ compliant in the UK, i.e.Euro 6.
Just stick the UK reg in here:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle-35896
If it states it is ULEZ compliant, you know that your NOX tax is capped at €600

The €600 cap is for petrol cars only

Cunning Alias

thadg wrote: »

Is there any website that shows the NOX emissions for each car or even by putting in a uk/irl reg number? EG how do i know the nox levels for a 2012 520d m sport without having the V5 in front of me?
Looks like the euro 5 3.0 d engines by bmw are only approx 500 extra, if my calculation is right, but i may be wrong. Its sad that revenue cant have it built into the vrt price automatically. They had long enough to sort it. It is confusing on purpose by them

VRTd a car this morning. I used http://www.emissionsfinder.com/ and it matched up with the V5 and I didn't get any nasty surprises.

People there were chatting about the horror stories they have had come in over the past month. If I heard right there was someone bringing in a Volvo with 600 VRT due on it and then got hit with over 4k in Nox.

crystalbrite

Cunning Alias wrote: »

VRTd a car this morning. I used http://www.emissionsfinder.com/ and it matched up with the V5 and I didn't get any nasty surprises.

People there were chatting about the horror stories they have had come in over the past month. If I heard right there was someone bringing in a Volvo with 600 VRT due on it and then got hit with over 4k in Nox.

Can't find an AUDI A4 1.4 TFSI on that website

punisher5112

crystalbrite wrote: »

Can't find an AUDI A4 1.4 TFSI on that website

Max will be €600 for petrol.

Diesel is the one you really need to be careful with.


Mainly hits cars older then 2015 in most cases.

ELM327

Generally a good guide would be to see what the emissions based tax is.
If you're going to be paying higher than 200 odd tax then the emissions are "high" (as per this tax anyway) and you'll be paying a lot

It's actually not that bad, if you're looking at bringing in large engined cars, it makes the petrol ones 4k cheaper now!

colm_mcm

It’s quite common to have small co2 and massive nox.

ELM327

Yes, hence why I said "guide" instead of rule

Dr Dave

thadg wrote: »

Is there any website that shows the NOX emissions for each car or even by putting in a uk/irl reg number? EG how do i know the nox levels for a 2012 520d m sport without having the V5 in front of me?
Looks like the euro 5 3.0 d engines by bmw are only approx 500 extra, if my calculation is right, but i may be wrong. Its sad that revenue cant have it built into the vrt price automatically. They had long enough to sort it. It is confusing on purpose by them

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/calculating-the-nox-charge.aspx

This link has an excel sheet half way down the page that you can download which might be able to help you.
There are a lot of different versions so you really need to know what car you are looking up. The wrong choice and you could go from a bill of €300 to €3,000.

crystalbrite

Dr Dave wrote: »

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/calculating-the-nox-charge.aspx

This link has an excel sheet half way down the page that you can download which might be able to help you.
There are a lot of different versions so you really need to know what car you are looking up. The wrong choice and you could go from a bill of €300 to €3,000.

Ya I was already looking at that.
They have an Audi A4 1.4 TFSI S-line automatic but I'm looking for the number for a manual.

rabbitinlights

Petrol cars from the UK have now become much more attractive, just need to find the right balance of power and CO2.

commited

User1998 wrote: »

The €600 cap is for petrol cars only

Euro 6 diesels by nature are limited to a Nox tax of €600, so it's the best way to do a quick check from the UK imho

ELM327

rabbitinlights wrote: »

Petrol cars from the UK have now become much more attractive, just need to find the right balance of power and CO2.

Yes I agree - have said this since the change was announced

colm_mcm

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, hence why I said "guide" instead of rule

But it’s not a guide at all. There’s no way you can tell if a particular car will be €300 or €3000 by just going on Co2. Biggest factor is how the exhaust gasses are treated.

homer90

colm_mcm wrote: »

But it’s not a guide at all. There’s no way you can tell if a particular car will be €300 or €3000 by just going on Co2. Biggest factor is how the exhaust gasses are treated.

Indeed, A good example is a Hyundai i30 which I imported for the wife pre Nox charges. Its on the A2 tax band / €180 annual tax. Now hit with €2k+ nox charge.

L-M

Another victim lol

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/23705826

colm_mcm

L-M wrote: »

Another victim lol

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/23705826

There was 80000 on that last March.

Also

Volkswagen Golf 1.6 tdi bluemotion tech match(highest spec golf possible)

Gettttafook



Wouldn’t these be really low nox on paper?

KCross

L-M wrote: »

Another victim lol

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/23705826

Looks like it is 107 g/km for CO2 so €1126 for VRT (VRT stat code 42586963)
And the NOx on it is 116 mg/km so another €1500 on top! Ouch.

A bit of a shock to him I'd say if he wasnt aware of this new tax!


So, thats €6800 before its cleared. What's it worth here?

L-M

It’s actually not bad value at 6800, thought it would be more for a 2011??

Still, smell a rat anyway.

Infernal Racket

All the side of the road dealers with UK cars are proper ****ed now. A lot of legit dealers are getting caught out too. Stocked up on uk cars looking to make a killing with Brexit but now they're left with their stock

rabbitinlights

commited wrote: »

Euro 6 diesels by nature are limited to a Nox tax of €600, so it's the best way to do a quick check from the UK imho

Is this 100%? - Are all Euro6 Diesel capped at €600, even a 2015/16 535D? - the ones I've checked are ULEZ exempt but so hard to get concrete NoX numbers.

ELM327

rabbitinlights wrote: »

Is this 100%? - Are all Euro6 Diesel capped at €600, even a 2015/16 535D? - the ones I've checked are ULEZ exempt but so hard to get concrete NoX numbers.

There was a spreadsheet from revenue with F10 and newer 535d on it with specific numbers

KCross

rabbitinlights wrote: »

Is this 100%? - Are all Euro6 Diesel capped at €600, even a 2015/16 535D? - the ones I've checked are ULEZ exempt but so hard to get concrete NoX numbers.

The Euro 6 requirement was a max of 80mg NOx so that means the max should be €600 (€5*60 + €15*20=€600), if its Euro 6.

A 535d appears to have a NOx figure of 72mg NOx so slightly less than €600, on top of the existing VRT, of course.

You need sight of the figure on the V5 though as the models can be retested and two cars that look/spec the same can have different figures so dont assume, but if it is confirmed Euro 6 you should be safe enough.

commited

rabbitinlights wrote: »

Is this 100%? - Are all Euro6 Diesel capped at €600, even a 2015/16 535D? - the ones I've checked are ULEZ exempt but so hard to get concrete NoX numbers.

Yes, it can't meet Euro 6 if Nox is higher than 80mg.

cd76

mgn wrote: »

There are plenty of other threads where you can chirp on about the environment, this thread is here to help people importing cars.

This is about the economics of importing. The nox charges were fully signalled. Ignorance of the process and taxes is not relevant.

mgn

cd76 wrote: »

This is about the economics of importing. The nox charges were fully signalled. Ignorance of the process and taxes is not relevant.

It's another tax, plain and simple.

cnocbui

The Irish government loves taxes. Socialism is part of the national psyche. 10% of all government revenues come from taxing cars.