New NOx VRT levy

michellie

I've just checked 10 reg's on cartell and the NOx was only right on 4 of them(even then it was off by one or two)

Safe to say people shouldn't rely on that.

4/10

mp3ireland2

If I am resident in UK and move home, and have the car 6 months so that you are VRT excempt, do you still have to pay the NOx tax? Or does it form part of the VRT so I would be exempt?

Apologies in advance as this probably has been answered here but I coudln't find it. From my reading it seems I would be exepmt, based on citizensinformation.ie, but wanted to make sure I choose my next car wisely.

michellie

mp3ireland2 wrote: »

If I am resident in UK and move home, and have the car 6 months so that you are VRT excempt, do you still have to pay the NOx tax? Or does it form part of the VRT so I would be exempt?

Apologies in advance as this probably has been answered here but I coudln't find it. From my reading it seems I would be exepmt, based on citizensinformation.ie, but wanted to make sure I choose my next car wisely.

Exempt Once you have your transfer of residence exemption letter

Dr Dave

This is a bit of an aside but still relevant ,I was just onto Revenue about importing a 1999 car which was not on the VRT calculator.
They don't care, bring the car and they will value it.

But while I had the guy on the phone I was picking his brain on the whole VRT / NOx thing and he told me something surprising to me that I had not heard. The NOx charge is added to the value of the car and then VRT is charged on the sum of both.

So, if you were to import a car valued at say €4,000 and the VRT was 25% = €1000 as it used to be.
Now if the NOx charge is €4,000, this is added to the original valuation of €4,000 giving a total valuation of €8,000; so the new VRT is now €2,000 @ 25%.
Total cost of import = €2,000 (VRT) + €4,000 (NOx) = €6,000.

This is a tax upon a tax I said to him, and he agreed, it is.

So, effectively they believe that the value of cars in this great little country of ours is going to increase by the cost of the NOX tax.
Do they really think that an Audi A4 2.0 TDI from 2012 is going to increase in value by €2k just because of this?

To all those who say that it was publicised well, I have to admit that I heard nothing about this.
Don't ask me what I watched on telly or listened to on the radio or read, but nada!
There are certainly going to be some tears at VRT offices around the country.

Some info here on revenue anyway. Calculators and a spreadsheet to give you an idea of the cost.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/calculating-the-nox-charge.aspx

mp3ireland2

michellie wrote: »

Exempt Once you have your transfer of residence exemption letter

Great thanks a lot, that's what I thought after reading into it today, but didn't want to get my hopes up.

MarkN

Joe Duffy had callers on about it today. Joe was painting it as the lower class getting shafted again. I don't see many lower income people bringing in 2018 5 Series.

I'm in two minds I have to say - why should Ireland be a dumping ground for the UK's unwanted diesels (although not all the cars being imported are diesel obviously) and then I appreciate also that it was just a sneaky way of hitting imports and taxing the motorist yet again.

punisher5112

It's going to hit the UK quite hard as you won't see truck loads of dirty diesels, well dirtier ones.

colm_mcm

MarkN wrote: »

Joe Duffy had callers on about it today. Joe was painting it as the lower class getting shafted again. I don't see many lower income people bringing in 2018 5 Series.

I'm in two minds I have to say - why should Ireland be a dumping ground for the UK's unwanted diesels (although not all the cars being imported are diesel obviously) and then I appreciate also that it was just a sneaky way of hitting imports and taxing the motorist yet again.

2018 5 series sees a reduction in VRT as the 1% levy is removed and replaced by a few hundred quid Nox charge.

colm_mcm

Dr Dave wrote: »

This is a bit of an aside but still relevant ,I was just onto Revenue about importing a 1999 car which was not on the VRT calculator.
They don't care, bring the car and they will value it.

But while I had the guy on the phone I was picking his brain on the whole VRT / NOx thing and he told me something surprising to me that I had not heard. The NOx charge is added to the value of the car and then VRT is charged on the sum of both.

So, if you were to import a car valued at say €4,000 and the VRT was 25% = €1000 as it used to be.
Now if the NOx charge is €4,000, this is added to the original valuation of €4,000 giving a total valuation of €8,000; so the new VRT is now €2,000 @ 25%.
Total cost of import = €2,000 (VRT) + €4,000 (NOx) = €6,000.

This is a tax upon a tax I said to him, and he agreed, it is.

So, effectively they believe that the value of cars in this great little country of ours is going to increase by the cost of the NOX tax.
Do they really think that an Audi A4 2.0 TDI from 2012 is going to increase in value by €2k just because of this?

To all those who say that it was publicised well, I have to admit that I heard nothing about this.
Don't ask me what I watched on telly or listened to on the radio or read, but nada!
There are certainly going to be some tears at VRT offices around the country.

Some info here on revenue anyway. Calculators and a spreadsheet to give you an idea of the cost.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/calculating-the-nox-charge.aspx

I would say your guy is wrong.

michellie

colm_mcm wrote: »

I would say your guy is wrong.

Yea I agree with Colm. I haven't seen many increases in OMSP, most have gone down.

MarkN

colm_mcm wrote: »

2018 5 series sees a reduction in VRT as the 1% levy is removed and replaced by a few hundred quid Nox charge.

No I know that but what I meant was Joe was painting it as in it was the poor man being taken for a ride again and doesn’t seem to be aware of the overall types of vehicles being imported. It’s not all 2010 Ford Fiestas but he was painting it like that.

Casati

I wonder will this Nox charge actually hit many dealers very hard? I understand they can bring in imports and not register them until sold, so assuming that’s the case they could be sitting on some big bills - especially dealers importing used larger SUV’s or older exec cars where the charge might be headed towards to 4850

Dr Dave

colm_mcm wrote: »

I would say your guy is wrong.

He might well be, but this was someone working in the VRT section of Revenue.
I found it a bit unbelievable myself which is why I clarified it with him using an example.
Hopefully he is mistaken, but until we see an actual VRT "bill", can't really be certain.
It wouldn't surprise me, or most on this forum.

gally74

I actually support the change.

colm_mcm

Dr Dave wrote: »

He might well be, but this was someone working in the VRT section of Revenue.
I found it a bit unbelievable myself which is why I clarified it with him using an example.
Hopefully he is mistaken, but until we see an actual VRT "bill", can't really be certain.
It wouldn't surprise me, or most on this forum.

VRT is on the open market value of the car.

Dr Dave

gally74 wrote: »

I actually support the change.

If like me you had no choice (apart from job change, Divorce and moving county) but to drive 40,000km a year over b-roads you might have a different attitude. A diesel is the only viable option. I average 5.5l/100km in my 2011 diesel. Sure I could spend a fortune on a more modern car, but that's not financially viable for me. Maybe a Tesla at the same cost as I owe on my mortgage, no other EV works. Low NOx petrol? Still cost double the cost of Diesel. Used to use LPG in a petrol - NOx of that is very low I think. Support this again if they are really interested in the environment.

michellie

Dr Dave wrote: »

He might well be, but this was someone working in the VRT section of Revenue.
I found it a bit unbelievable myself which is why I clarified it with him using an example.
Hopefully he is mistaken, but until we see an actual VRT "bill", can't really be certain.
It wouldn't surprise me, or most on this forum.

Yea, he's mistaken.

The OMSP can go up or down. Any I have come in contact with that were imported last month the Vrt price has decreased(bar one from a tan holder that went up slightly, which is not out of the norm, it happens).

At the vrt appointment it will have a breakdown of Vrt + NOx + penalties + retest/cancellation fees.

KCross

Dr Dave wrote: »

This is a bit of an aside but still relevant ,I was just onto Revenue about importing a 1999 car which was not on the VRT calculator.
They don't care, bring the car and they will value it.

But while I had the guy on the phone I was picking his brain on the whole VRT / NOx thing and he told me something surprising to me that I had not heard. The NOx charge is added to the value of the car and then VRT is charged on the sum of both.

So, if you were to import a car valued at say €4,000 and the VRT was 25% = €1000 as it used to be.
Now if the NOx charge is €4,000, this is added to the original valuation of €4,000 giving a total valuation of €8,000; so the new VRT is now €2,000 @ 25%.
Total cost of import = €2,000 (VRT) + €4,000 (NOx) = €6,000.

This is a tax upon a tax I said to him, and he agreed, it is.

So, effectively they believe that the value of cars in this great little country of ours is going to increase by the cost of the NOX tax.
Do they really think that an Audi A4 2.0 TDI from 2012 is going to increase in value by €2k just because of this?

To all those who say that it was publicised well, I have to admit that I heard nothing about this.
Don't ask me what I watched on telly or listened to on the radio or read, but nada!
There are certainly going to be some tears at VRT offices around the country.

Some info here on revenue anyway. Calculators and a spreadsheet to give you an idea of the cost.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/calculating-the-nox-charge.aspx

Revenues own worked example in the link you posted doesn’t agree with what he said so he’s wrong by the look of it.

NOx is an independent calculation and simply added to the existing VRT calculation.

Fairly simple tbh.

Marcusm

Dr Dave wrote: »

This is a bit of an aside but still relevant ,I was just onto Revenue about importing a 1999 car which was not on the VRT calculator.
They don't care, bring the car and they will value it.

But while I had the guy on the phone I was picking his brain on the whole VRT / NOx thing and he told me something surprising to me that I had not heard. The NOx charge is added to the value of the car and then VRT is charged on the sum of both.

So, if you were to import a car valued at say €4,000 and the VRT was 25% = €1000 as it used to be.
Now if the NOx charge is €4,000, this is added to the original valuation of €4,000 giving a total valuation of €8,000; so the new VRT is now €2,000 @ 25%.
Total cost of import = €2,000 (VRT) + €4,000 (NOx) = €6,000.

This is a tax upon a tax I said to him, and he agreed, it is.

So, effectively they believe that the value of cars in this great little country of ours is going to increase by the cost of the NOX tax.
Do they really think that an Audi A4 2.0 TDI from 2012 is going to increase in value by €2k just because of this?

To all those who say that it was publicised well, I have to admit that I heard nothing about this.
Don't ask me what I watched on telly or listened to on the radio or read, but nada!
There are certainly going to be some tears at VRT offices around the country.

Some info here on revenue anyway. Calculators and a spreadsheet to give you an idea of the cost.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/calculating-the-nox-charge.aspx

Nope; the CO2 element is calculated on the OMSP (theoretically based on actual selling prices in RoI) and the NOx charge is then added to that element to find total VRT payable. If you look at the 2006 example in the URL you quoted you’ll see it shown this way.

Basically NOx charge will disincentivise all but Euro 6 diesels from being imported/registered.

I understand a lot of dealers/TAN holders had to register imported but unregistered stocks by 31/12 as Revenue is applying by registration not importation date. That increases their stock cost and may, in Feb/Mar, lead to discounting.

Marcusm

Dr Dave wrote: »

If like me you had no choice (apart from job change, Divorce and moving county) but to drive 40,000km a year over b-roads you might have a different attitude. A diesel is the only viable option. I average 5.5l/100km in my 2011 diesel. Sure I could spend a fortune on a more modern car, but that's not financially viable for me. Maybe a Tesla at the same cost as I owe on my mortgage, no other EV works. Low NOx petrol? Still cost double the cost of Diesel. Used to use LPG in a petrol - NOx of that is very low I think. Support this again if they are really interested in the environment.

Euro 6 engines are 4-5 years old at this stage. You’d have to import an older one to have a significant NOx charge. There’s a bit of transition pain for the small cohort in your position but there should never have been as many diesels in Ireland as there are. This will disincentivise adding more inefficient ones to the national stock. At least they are not changing motor tax to attack you they way they did with CO2.

michellie

Marcusm wrote: »

I understand a lot of dealers/TAN holders had to register imported but unregistered stocks by 31/12 as Revenue is applying by registration not importation date. That increases their stock cost and may, in Feb/Mar, lead to discounting.

They didn't have to register all stock but any TAN holders with their heads screwed on registered the high NOx ones.

Casati

michellie wrote: »

They didn't have to register all stock but any TAN holders with their heads screwed on registered the high NOx ones.

Still an impact to them - the cars will be showing as having another registered owner.

Dr Dave

CO2 was the flavour last month, NOx is the flavour this month, what is the flavour going to be next month I wonder?

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

This tax gives the used car industry in Ireland an extra 80,000 sales. If you calculate that a dealer makes €1000 per car that is a gross profit of €80,000,000. That is quite significant for a small market. The motor industry have been in the press recently defending the charge in a self serving semi propaganda exercise to drive home the message that the nox charge is a good thing. It is for them I guess. I would like to see the rational / science behind the sliding scale charge. It is very coincidental that the amount of tax being charged is almost exactly the same figure as you would expect to save from importing a car from the UK. Does anybody know if the motor industry had a hand in helping the government draft the bill/tax? Were they used as consultants? I don’t believe that this is beyond the realms of possibility and if it was the case is this not corruption? Maybe they consulted with environmentalists instead who came up with a charge for pollution.

millington

Mariah Elegant Sunbonnet wrote: »

This tax gives the used car industry in Ireland an extra 80,000 sales.

Where did you get this from?

KCross

Mariah Elegant Sunbonnet wrote: »

This tax gives the used car industry in Ireland an extra 80,000 sales.

70%+ of the cars imported from the UK are <5yrs old where there will be little or no NOx charge on them (i.e. anything Euro 6)... in fact some will be cheaper as the 1% diesel levy has been removed.

I think you need to rework your conspiracy!

Casati

KCross wrote: »

70%+ of the cars imported from the UK are <5yrs old where there will be little or no NOx charge on them (i.e. anything Euro 6)... in fact some will be cheaper as the 1% diesel levy has been removed.

I think you need to rework your conspiracy!

I don’t think that’s correct, many newer cars still have fairly high Nox ratings, inc some of the most popular imports such as the Focus and Qashqai.

Skoda have said publicly they expect increased new car sales as a result of the new charge

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/skoda-predicts-nox-tax-will-drive-new-car-sales-recovery-in-2020-1.4129672?mode=amp

Early days yet but used imports are down 28% after the first 10 days of the year so it’s likely the Nox conspiracy will continue!

KCross

Casati wrote: »

I don’t think that’s correct, many newer cars still have fairly high Nox ratings, inc some of the most popular imports such as the Focus and Qashqai.

Skoda have said publicly they expect increased new car sales as a result of the new charge

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/skoda-predicts-nox-tax-will-drive-new-car-sales-recovery-in-2020-1.4129672?mode=amp

Early days yet but used imports are down 28% after the first 10 days of the year so it’s likely the Nox conspiracy will continue!

Open to correction but I believe the Euro 6 limit is 80mg/km so a maximum NOx tax of €600 for the worst polluting Euro 6 cars.

Take off the fact that there was already a 1% diesel levy on every car, which has now been removed, and the additional tax is minimal on Euro 6... as I said, some will actually be cheaper as they can have NOx values in the single digits so a NOx tax of like €40!

Just looking online the latest Focus has a NOx figure of 52mg/km so a NOx tax of €260 (minus the 1% diesel levy). Hardly a deal breaker.

Conspiracy theory away!

cd76

Ireland needs to protect the environment. The NOX Charge is the way to go. Too many old diesels being dumped from the UK. Save up and import a one or two year old Hybrid.

Casati

cd76 wrote: »

Ireland needs to protect the environment. The NOX Charge is the way to go. Too many old diesels being dumped from the UK. Save up and import a one or two year old Hybrid.

Good idea. In the meantime keep driving your 20 year old diesel