New NOx VRT levy

cd76

Yes, drive current stock in Ireland. No imports of mores diesels should be encouraged.

colm_mcm

If they’re willing to charge someone for adding badly polluting diesels to the roads, surely that money could be used to incentivise scrapping or exporting of the worst polluting diesels.....

cd76

There's already incentives on Hybrids and EVs and much lower tax on lower CO2 petrols. No more "incentives" required.
Nox is essentially penalising imports which is right. Each year the price of Diesel fuel and tax on diesel cars should increase. Drivers should be incrementally penalised for driving diesels so that by 2025 it would not make sense to drive one.

mgn

cd76 wrote: »

Ireland needs to protect the environment. The NOX Charge is the way to go. Too many old diesels being dumped from the UK. Save up and import a one or two year old Hybrid.

There are plenty of other threads where you can chirp on about the environment, this thread is here to help people importing cars.

Casati

KCross wrote: »

Open to correction but I believe the Euro 6 limit is 80mg/km so a maximum NOx tax of €600 for the worst polluting Euro 6 cars.

Take off the fact that there was already a 1% diesel levy on every car, which has now been removed, and the additional tax is minimal on Euro 6... as I said, some will actually be cheaper as they can have NOx values in the single digits so a NOx tax of like €40!

Just looking online the latest Focus has a NOx figure of 52mg/km so a NOx tax of €260 (minus the 1% diesel levy). Hardly a deal breaker.

Conspiracy theory away!

The example given in the article I saw was 2015 Focus 1.6 TDCI 115bhp - Nox charge 2725 euro

Seat Leon (mustnt have come with the Golf cheat device!) 2016 DSG 2575 euro

I don’t know if they Euro 6 but both would be considered decent cars and much younger than the average car on the road

If you look at the all the newer stuff some of the Nox charges are tiny e.g 2017 Q7 3.0 TDI is only 265. Range Rover SD8 4.4 2016 is only 450 quid - good cars for somebody pushing their green credentials!

elperello

Mariah Elegant Sunbonnet wrote: »

This tax gives the used car industry in Ireland an extra 80,000 sales. If you calculate that a dealer makes €1000 per car that is a gross profit of €80,000,000. That is quite significant for a small market. The motor industry have been in the press recently defending the charge in a self serving semi propaganda exercise to drive home the message that the nox charge is a good thing. It is for them I guess. I would like to see the rational / science behind the sliding scale charge. It is very coincidental that the amount of tax being charged is almost exactly the same figure as you would expect to save from importing a car from the UK. Does anybody know if the motor industry had a hand in helping the government draft the bill/tax? Were they used as consultants? I don’t believe that this is beyond the realms of possibility and if it was the case is this not corruption? Maybe they consulted with environmentalists instead who came up with a charge for pollution.

This is the lobbying return for SIMI.

https://www.lobbying.ie/app/home/search?currentPage=1&pageSize=10&queryText=SIMI&subjectMatters=&subjectMatterAreas=&period=&returnDateFrom=&returnDateTo=&lobbyistId=&dpo=&publicBodys=&jobTitles=&client=

I haven't had time to go through the details but they have clearly been busy.

jmreire

cd76 wrote: »

There's already incentives on Hybrids and EVs and much lower tax on lower CO2 petrols. No more "incentives" required.
Nox is essentially penalising imports which is right. Each year the price of Diesel fuel and tax on diesel cars should increase. Drivers should be incrementally penalised for driving diesels so that by 2025 it would not make sense to drive one.

Where do you think the money is going to come from to pay these additional taxe's? The squeezed middle??? Motorists in Ireland are already being squeezed to the point of asphyxiation.....and you want to increase it, within 5 years? The Govt's 2030 deadline banning the purchase of new diesel / petrol engined cars is pushing it as it is.

Marcusm

cd76 wrote: »

Ireland needs to protect the environment. The NOX Charge is the way to go. Too many old diesels being dumped from the UK. Save up and import a one or two year old Hybrid.

The NOx charge is not really about the environment, it’s more important than that, it’s about human health (breathing).

punisher5112

Heard talk to Joe will be talking about it as students bought a car as they can't afford another car and the vrt was €1k but now near €5k.... Something like that.

L-M

Someone today told me that people who had failed to get a booking before the deadline got their NOX back? Any truth in that?

colm_mcm

cd76 wrote: »

There's already incentives on Hybrids and EVs and much lower tax on lower CO2 petrols. No more "incentives" required.
Nox is essentially penalising imports which is right. Each year the price of Diesel fuel and tax on diesel cars should increase. Drivers should be incrementally penalised for driving diesels so that by 2025 it would not make sense to drive one.

Why not incentivise the removal of the worst cars off the roads?

michellie

L-M wrote: »

Someone today told me that people who had failed to get a booking before the deadline got their NOX back? Any truth in that?

They can appeal it. I doubt anyone has gotten a refund yet. Those things can take time, it's been less than 2 weeks.

McGiver

MarkN wrote:

I'm in two minds I have to say - why should Ireland be a dumping ground for the UK's unwanted diesels (although not all the cars being imported are diesel obviously) and then I appreciate also that it was just a sneaky way of hitting imports and taxing the motorist yet again.

Preventing dumping is the primary motivation. Getting extra cash is a pleasant bonus and an excuse.

UK is a huge market undergoing rather rapid transition to low carbon. Also, they are fully aware of the toxicity of diesel and are phasing it out (rightly). Diesels got a bad reputation, people are aware of the external costs not reflected in running costs (pollution, healthcare costs, human suffering, death).

So in Ireland's position you can't just sit and watch a huge market next to you dumping dirty stuff on you. That market is 12 times larger and much more dynamic, dumping to a smaller market would be an obvious solution to the get rid of their diesels nobody wants anymore, especially if the small market is in love with diesels. Something had to be done. Surprisingly, the gov did something (almost) right...

colm_mcm

McGiver wrote: »

Preventing dumping is the primary motivation. Getting extra cash is a pleasant bonus and an excuse.

UK is a huge market undergoing rather rapid transition to low carbon. Also, they are fully aware of the toxicity of diesel and are phasing it out (rightly). Diesels got a bad reputation, people are aware of the external costs not reflected in running costs (pollution, healthcare costs, human suffering, death).

So in Ireland's position you can't just sit and watch a huge market next to you dumping dirty stuff on you. That market is 12 times larger and much more dynamic, dumping to a smaller market would be an obvious solution to the get rid of their diesels nobody wants anymore, especially if the small market is in love with diesels. Something had to be done. Surprisingly, the gov did something (almost) right...

That absolutely wasn’t happening though. We heard tales of all these diesels for half nothing without any evidence of their existence.
People were buying them because they wanted them, and there is a genuine shortage of quality used cars in certain years.

McGiver

Casati wrote:

Good idea. In the meantime keep driving your 20 year old diesel

N9, if you can't do electric, plugin hybrid or at least hybrid, get a petrol at least. Diesel is a dirty **** and whole Europe are getting rid of it and taxing the hell out of it. Only the in Ireland is the tax on diesel so low (equal to petrol) and diesel penetration so high (65%).

cnocbui

McGiver wrote: »

N9, if you can't do electric, plugin hybrid or at least hybrid, get a petrol at least. Diesel is a dirty **** and whole Europe are getting rid of it and taxing the hell out of it. Only the in Ireland is the tax on diesel so low (equal to petrol) and diesel penetration so high (65%).

You seem confused. It's not that diesel is lightly taxed but that petrol is excessively taxed. The stupid greens put up the tax on petrol and implemented a CO2 based VRT because they thought CO2 was evil and that cancer and lung diseases were ok.

When you refine crude oil, you get nearly twice the amount of petrol as diesel, so diesel should be almost double the price of petrol. The Irish government has been doing it's best to fight the natural order.

elperello

colm_mcm wrote: »

Why not incentivise the removal of the worst cars off the roads?

It would need to be a scrappage scheme.
Exporting would be seen as just polluting the air in another country.

Atlantic Dawn

elperello wrote: »

It would need to be a scrappage scheme.
Exporting would be seen as just polluting the air in another country.

Diesels are fine out in the backarse of nowhere, they are only a problem in built up areas, exporting them to some remote area of Africa would be grand.

colm_mcm

McGiver wrote: »

N9, if you can't do electric, plugin hybrid or at least hybrid, get a petrol at least. Diesel is a dirty **** and whole Europe are getting rid of it and taxing the hell out of it. Only the in Ireland is the tax on diesel so low (equal to petrol) and diesel penetration so high (65%).

Untrue. Belgium’s tax system is based on Co2 as well and favours diesel. Same in Luxembourg,
Romania doesn’t discriminate between petrol or diesel in annual tax, neither does France (it’s free there), or Spain.

elperello

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Diesels are fine out in the backarse of nowhere, they are only a problem in built up areas, exporting them to some remote area of Africa would be grand.

Non built up areas are in Ireland as well as Africa.

So you have a guy living in Dowra with a job in an industrial estate in Sligo.
Might as well let him carry on rather than make his commute non-viable.


How would you ensure the car was going to the wilds of Africa rather than a city.
Have you ever seen Nairobi or Lagos?

jmreire

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Diesels are fine out in the backarse of nowhere, they are only a problem in built up areas, exporting them to some remote area of Africa would be grand.

No it would not.. Africa has enough problems..the day's of dumping our problems to other countries is long gone...And I don't equate the issue of Irish people travelling to England to pick up a car at a better price than they can here in Ireland, as England "Dumping" it's unwanted diesel cars into ireland. We are willingly buying them, and visit any main dealership in the Country, and see how many cars they are importing.....

mgn

The big dealerships had no problem with any imports until the average Joe or Mary Soap started importing cars themselfs, cutting out the dealer.
These NOX emissions are know about for years,

jmreire

mgn wrote: »

The big dealerships had no problem with any imports until the average Joe or Mary Soap started importing cars themselfs, cutting out the dealer.
These NOX emissions are know about for years,

Yes they have been...but now it suits the SIMI agenda, and our cash hungry government too.....:cool:

McGiver

cnocbui wrote:

You seem confused. It's not that diesel is lightly taxed but that petrol is excessively taxed. The stupid greens put up the tax on petrol and implemented a CO2 based VRT because they thought CO2 was evil and that cancer and lung diseases were ok.

Not confused. For clarity - I meant motor tax not tax on fuel.

Have to be agree with the cancer vs CO2, you're right. It was a mistake.

McGiver

colm_mcm wrote:

Untrue. Belgium’s tax system is based on Co2 as well and favours diesel. Same in Luxembourg, Romania doesn’t discriminate between petrol or diesel in annual tax, neither does France (it’s free there), or Spain.

Beg to be differ.

Netherlands - motor tax for a diesel engine car is about twice as expensive than similarly sized petrol engine car

Sweden - motor tax for diesel engine car is calculated as motor tax of petrol equivalent multiplied by coefficient of 2.37, plus there are additional surcharges for older polluting diesels based on the Euro type

Do you think Spain and France should be the role model for Ireland or rather Netherlands and Sweden?

colm_mcm

McGiver wrote: »

Beg to be differ.

Netherlands - motor tax for a diesel engine car is about twice as expensive than similarly sized petrol engine car

Sweden - motor tax for diesel engine car is calculated as motor tax of petrol equivalent multiplied by coefficient of 2.37, plus there are additional surcharges for older polluting diesels based on the Euro type

Do you think Spain and France should be the role model for Ireland or rather Netherlands and Sweden?

I never mentioned Sweden or the Netherlands when responding to your incorrect statement that Ireland was the only EU country to not penalize diesel usage.

Infernal Racket

Reading up on this new tax it would appear solely designed to put am end to the UK car imports flooding into Ireland. The tax makes it now almost impossible to pick up any kind of a good deal by shopping in the UK as the new tax will be piled upon the VRT. For example, someone thinking of buying a 4 or 5 year old Golf in the UK UK or Northern Ireland could be hit with almost 2 grand extra in top of VRT. Now call me a cynic but this puts the ball squarely back in the Irish traders court and they'll be able to hike their prices again as it's no longer viable to travel.

KCross

Gerry G wrote: »

Reading up on this new tax it would appear solely designed to put am end to the UK car imports flooding into Ireland. The tax makes it now almost impossible to pick up any kind of a good deal by shopping in the UK as the new tax will be piled upon the VRT. For example, someone thinking of buying a 4 or 5 year old Golf in the UK UK or Northern Ireland could be hit with almost 2 grand extra in top of VRT. Now call me a cynic but this puts the ball squarely back in the Irish traders court and they'll be able to hike their prices again as it's no longer viable to travel.

Yes and No.

If its a high polluting diesel you are after, then yes.

If its a newer Euro 6 diesel, will low emissions, it will have little or no effect on prices here (the tax can be as low as €40)... so thats the majority of cars since 2015, which is 70%+ of what will be imported.

There should still be plenty of value in going to the UK for those Euro 6 cars. Brexit on 1 Jan 2021 might be a bigger threat to imports than this tax though.

Isambard

yes , it's a problem that will diminish over time. Rather like the higher Motor Tax on 2007 and before cars it will play itself out and cleaner cars will be economic to import, but will they be available at all?

mgn

Isambard wrote: »

yes , it's a problem that will diminish over time. Rather like the higher Motor Tax on 2007 and before cars it will play itself out and cleaner cars will be economic to import, but will they be available at all?

There will always a supply of second hand cars in the UK due to the amount of fleet and lease cars changed every 3 or 4 years.