Upcoming ASTI ballot on SLARS

coillsaille

It's an interesting one. From a purely academic point of view (with the current directive) option C would seem the obvious one to go for in my opinion, if one had to chose. 40 mins of the SLAR in your own time then 80 mins as a group and as many have said on here before a lot of SLARS aren't taking anywhere close to 80 mins.

MacGyver007

ASTI press release on the circular:

https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/department-circular-at-variance-with-agreed-arrangements/

doc_17

Millem wrote: »

Yes 2 hours bang on. I have an sphe one coming soon....6 teachers involved so presume it will take 2 hours.

An SPHE SLAR? Did I miss something? I don’t teach SPHE but how in under a god is there a CBA in that?

acequion

MacGyver007 wrote: »

ASTI press release on the circular:

https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/department-circular-at-variance-with-agreed-arrangements/

Delighted with that response by ASTI!

acequion

coillsaille wrote: »

It's an interesting one. From a purely academic point of view (with the current directive) option C would seem the obvious one to go for in my opinion, if one had to chose. 40 mins of the SLAR in your own time then 80 mins as a group and as many have said on here before a lot of SLARS aren't taking anywhere close to 80 mins.

Oh god no!! Not in English! The very thoughts of having to read through all those essays and pieces, maybe on a day when I have 27 LC Hamlet essays of 5-7 pages to correct and the latter is my priority. No way! I could see myself digging my heels in there and refusing to do the prep! What would happen if we all refused?

Am delighted to see ASTI rejecting it out of hand, though it remains to be seen how it will play out. But I think we should insist on sticking to the original agreement, where the meetings start in school time, insisting that our classes be covered and using our bundled professional time to cover the spill over into after school hours. Just how much more of their contempt are we expected to lie down under!!

Millem

doc_17 wrote: »

An SPHE SLAR? Did I miss something? I don t teach now but how in under a god is there a CBA in that?

Yes there is a CBA....for a subject that I teach for one 40 minute period!
Another joke in it’s self!

political analyst

Wasn't it because of SLAR meetings being displace from the Croke Park hours that led to a Leaving Cert English teacher choosing the wrong work of literature for students? Special classes took place for the students affected to help them make up for what they missed shortly before the exam. The teacher, who was abroad after the term finished before the Leaving Cert, was apologetic about it.

To be honest, I don't see anything stressful to teachers for them to mention what works of literature they've chosen for their students while having tea and scones in the staff room during the tea-break.

Benicetomonty

political analyst wrote: »

Wasn't it because of SLAR meetings being displace from the Croke Park hours that led to a Leaving Cert English teacher choosing the wrong work of literature for students? Special classes took place for the students affected to help them make up for what they missed shortly before the exam. The teacher, who was abroad after the term finished before the Leaving Cert, was apologetic about it.

To be honest, I don't see anything stressful to teachers for them to mention what works of literature they've chosen for their students while having tea and scones in the staff room during the tea-break.

Had nothing to do with SLARs or CP hours. Just pilot error on the teacher's part. And it was inexcusable. Very least a class can expect is for their teacher to know what texts they have to study. But anyway, different issue.

Regardless of what you think goes on in SLARs, an agreement is an agreement. They are supposed to happen inside school hours. If you read the relevant part of the document and are functionally literate, you will see what was signed up to by all parties. Govt is attempting to renege. Simple as that.

Treppen

Consuelano wrote: »

There are two things I see could happen here.

1. We allow SLARs to take place outside of school hours. I've done a few at this stage. They do not necessitate two hours (much less in fairness) and there's a degree of autonomy with them. This inside/outside tuition time was never a major issue in my humble opinion.

2. We follow the union's directive (and in fairness what was originally the department's) and have SLARs inside of the school day. The most likely result of this (having read the circular) is that the department pulls the 22 hours professional time. Our only move then is to pull all cooperation with JC planning, CBAs, SLARS, etc. The result of all of this is that we've got a fight on our hands. A real, proper fight.

The problem with the second option is that it's not the fight we should be having with the department. There are many things we should be pushing back against - lesser paid teachers to name but one.

I understand why this has become an issue, and for many it's the final nail in the coffin. However, I'd much rather that extra 22 hours per year in exchange for a couple of meetings of two to four hours (which don't actually take that long).

We're already in initiative overload and are in the thick of schools becoming more and more corporate. We've got the new LC coming down the line (sooner than we'd like to think) while we're still getting to grips with the new JC. And on top of all this we've got unequal pay scales. I think the department would only LOVE for us to become entangled in a massive row over this issue - it would be the perfect distraction for the rest of it.

To allow this issue to escalate would be a strategical error on the union's part - it's the perfect red herring for the department.

I think you've got the nail on the head. It serves the department agenda to distract from lpts and further isolate the unions. It's a pity all unions couldn't just stick to the agreed directive.

The department / Irish times are doing a bit of history revisionism by saying the ASTI are breaking the directive, when in fact they are sticking to it.

History Queen

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Had nothing to do with SLARs or CP hours. Just pilot error on the teacher's part. And it was inexcusable. Very least a class can expect is for their teacher to know what texts they have to study. But anyway, different issue.

Regardless of what you think goes on in SLARs, an agreement is an agreement. They are supposed to happen inside school hours. If you read the relevant part of the document and are functionally literate, you will see what was signed up to by all parties. Govt is attempting to renege. Simple as that.

Can you link to the original document please? I can't seem to find itandwanted to read the wording for myself

Icsics

Millem wrote: »

Yes there is a CBA....for a subject that I teach for one 40 minute period!
Another joke in it’s self!

I think there’s a project (SLAR) if it’s run as a short course.
The 400 hrs for Wellbeing are going to be another huge drain on the timetable, subjects will lose out to wishy washy, made up ‘wellbeing’
We just had a ‘well-being week’, now there’s serious erosion of tuition time!

doc_17

Icsics wrote: »

I think there’s a project (SLAR) if it’s run as a short course.
The 400 hrs for Wellbeing are going to be another huge drain on the timetable, subjects will lose out to wishy washy, made up ‘wellbeing’
We just had a ‘well-being week’, now there’s serious erosion of tuition time!

I’m not participating in sh*t like that. And speaking of tuition time....We have a scenario in our school where teachers take students out of class for a full day to fill in LC Geog/Hist reports, the CA part of the course. S&S is used and I can be missing over half my class. Does that crap happen in other schools?

political analyst

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Had nothing to do with SLARs or CP hours. Just pilot error on the teacher's part. And it was inexcusable. Very least a class can expect is for their teacher to know what texts they have to study. But anyway, different issue.

Regardless of what you think goes on in SLARs, an agreement is an agreement. They are supposed to happen inside school hours. If you read the relevant part of the document and are functionally literate, you will see what was signed up to by all parties. Govt is attempting to renege. Simple as that.

Point taken.

For what it's worth, the teacher's mother and brother had died within 3 weeks of each other a few months before the exams.

https://www.thejournal.ie/leaving-cert-english-error-4232595-Sep2018/

political analyst

It would be regrettable if students have their teacher available for a class of the subject that he or she teaches them. If students have a particular teacher for that subject a certain number of classes every week, then the teacher should be, as a rule, teaching them for that number of classes.

Treppen

Millem wrote: »

I don’t really understand the options...
A do it on the school’s half day
B do it in your own free time
C basic also it in your own free time
D lose the 40 mins professional time and do it in school hours.

Our home ec slar took 2 hours.

Or E timetable it into mocks / summer exams.

Benicetomonty

political analyst wrote: »

Point taken.

For what it's worth, the teacher's mother and brother had died within 3 weeks of each other a few months before the exams.

https://www.thejournal.ie/leaving-cert-english-error-4232595-Sep2018/

We receive the circular with course texts laid out around 8 months before the beginning of 5th year, well in advance of the exams. Dont mean to come across as cruel but neglience like this undermines the profession, as it would any profession.

km79

Benicetomonty wrote: »

We receive the circular with course texts laid out around 8 months before the beginning of 5th year, well in advance of the exams. Dont mean to come across as cruel but neglience like this undermines the profession, as it would any profession.

Another counter argument is that while our profession is very big on student well being , Teacher Wellbeing is not a priority for any of the policy makers or key stakeholders
The wellbeing guidelines for the new JC is 108 pages long
There is one page on Teacher Wellbeing. I’ll summarise what it’s says . Teacher wellbeing is important as it’s affects student wellbeing

But this is a different argument . As is the use of the term Wellbeing as a huge Umbrella term anyway

Benicetomonty

History Queen wrote: »

Can you link to the original document please? I can't seem to find itandwanted to read the wording for myself

https://ncca.ie/media/3249/framework-for-junior-cycle-2015-en.pdf

Relevent document. Pg 34 has the reference as to how professional hours may be used in relation to SLARs.

https://www.asti.ie/uploads/media/cl0015_2017.pdf

Relevent circular that refers to meetings as SLARs (pg28)


The 40 minute professional time period provided within timetable is available to teachers on the basis that they will use this time flexibly including bundling time periods and carrying forward time to facilitate professional collaboration. Teachers may also use the time periods for individual planning, feedback or reporting activities relating to Junior Cycle. In particular, time periods will need to be bundled to facilitate SLAR meetings. Since professional collaboration meetings can only be held when the relevant subject teachers can be present, a limited number of meetings may need to draw on teachers’ bundled time to run beyond normal school tuition hours for some of the duration of the meeting.

Limited is not all. Some of the duration is not all. Any attempt therefore to hold the entirety of the meeting outside of hours, as is essentially proposed in options A B or C, is contrary to the agreement.

A further clarification relating to SLAR meetings was provided by the department of Education and Skills to ASTI in December 2015. It stated as follows:

“The Department confirms that any attempt to impose the organisation of SLAR meetings entirely outside school hours would contravene the agreement. The intention is that SLAR meetings will be scheduled to commence within the timetable, involving the inclusion of a normal timetabled period. However, given the required duration [approximately two hours per meeting], flexibility to run beyond the normal school day for some of the duration of the meeting is required. ”

km79

TUI bent over on this
So it’s game over on this one now that the govt have gown after it

History Queen

Benicetomonty wrote: »

https://ncca.ie/media/3249/framework-for-junior-cycle-2015-en.pdf

Relevent document. Pg 34 has the reference as to how professional hours may be used in relation to SLARs.

https://www.asti.ie/uploads/media/cl0015_2017.pdf

Relevent circular that refers to meetings as SLARs (pg28)


The 40 minute professional time period provided within timetable is available to teachers on the basis that they will use this time flexibly including bundling time periods and carrying forward time to facilitate professional collaboration. Teachers may also use the time periods for individual planning, feedback or reporting activities relating to Junior Cycle. In particular, time periods will need to be bundled to facilitate SLAR meetings. Since professional collaboration meetings can only be held when the relevant subject teachers can be present, a limited number of meetings may need to draw on teachers’ bundled time to run beyond normal school tuition hours for some of the duration of the meeting.

Limited is not all. Some of the duration is not all. Any attempt therefore to hold the entirety of the meeting outside of hours, as is essentially proposed in options A B or C, is contrary to the agreement.

A further clarification relating to SLAR meetings was provided by the department of Education and Skills to ASTI in December 2015. It stated as follows:

“The Department confirms that any attempt to impose the organisation of SLAR meetings entirely outside school hours would contravene the agreement. The intention is that SLAR meetings will be scheduled to commence within the timetable, involving the inclusion of a normal timetabled period. However, given the required duration [approximately two hours per meeting], flexibility to run beyond the normal school day for some of the duration of the meeting is required. ”

Thanks for that. Just had a read and the wording does seem to indicate that meeings should/could take place in school hours. I can absolutely see where ASTI are coming from. Similarly I can see why the department dontwant to pay "on the double " for this in that they have indeed granted us all the 22 hours professional time.

Honestly cannot see how this will come to a peaceful resolution.

Benicetomonty

km79 wrote: »

TUI bent over on this
So it’s game over on this one now that the govt have gown after it

Not necessarily. If dept stick to their guns and start making people redundant or redeploying staff who are over-quota, it wont be just ASTI members that will be affected. Itl be last in, first out, and that could be anybody from any union. Be interesting to see how the TUI respond in that scenario.

deiseindublin

TUI signed up to the same agreement as ASTI all those years ago so shouldn't be facilitating SLARs that are entirely outside school timetabled hours.

They never did intend to enforce the circular though. On the very first mention on SLARs in TUI News they gave an example of a school with a half day on a Wednesday timetabling it there.

Millem

Icsics wrote: »

I think there’s a project (SLAR) if it’s run as a short course.
The 400 hrs for Wellbeing are going to be another huge drain on the timetable, subjects will lose out to wishy washy, made up ‘wellbeing’
We just had a ‘well-being week’, now there’s serious erosion of tuition time!

Does every school have Sphe as a short course? Up to this year I hadn’t thought it in maybe 8+ years so out of the loop!

Icsics

Millem wrote: »

Does every school have Sphe as a short course? Up to this year I hadn’t thought it in maybe 8+ years so out of the loop!

No, it’s up to the school. I have it once a week, part of well-being hrs, not a short course so no CBA

Millem

Icsics wrote: »

No, it’s up to the school. I have it once a week, part of well-being hrs, not a short course so no CBA

Lucky you! So I wonder does your school have to do a CBA elsewhere?

doc_17

Icsics wrote: »

No, it’s up to the school. I have it once a week, part of well-being hrs, not a short course so no CBA

Yeah, that’s what I thought. It’s not a CBA subject in all schools. That school were mad to do that.

SligoBrewer

deiseindublin wrote: »

TUI signed up to the same agreement as ASTI all those years ago so shouldn't be facilitating SLARs that are entirely outside school timetabled hours.

They never did intend to enforce the circular though. On the very first mention on SLARs in TUI News they gave an example of a school with a half day on a Wednesday timetabling it there.

lol

Random sample

I’m surprised there hasn’t been more uproar about this circular. Asti response is decent, but tui haven’t responded at all. Does that mean they’re fine with it?

acequion

Random sample wrote: »

I’m surprised there hasn’t been more uproar about this circular. Asti response is decent, but tui haven’t responded at all. Does that mean they’re fine with it?

Probably more of the apathy that has dogged us for the past decade and the "ah shur what can we do" resigned mentality.:rolleyes:

I've never accepted or gotten over the insult I feel at the contempt with which we've been treated this past decade. Benicetomonty has quoted the main parts of the 2015 agreement in his/her posts above, so it is plain for all to see that the Govt are shifting the goalposts yet again and changing a signed agreement to suit their agenda yet again, with nothing but contempt for the other signatories.

There is loads of wriggle room here with a bit of good will. The Govt forced teachers into providing more S&S so some of this could be used. CP hours could also be used. It really should be simple to find a solution without turning it into a major issue.

In any case, ASTI voted overwhelmingly to have SLARS within school time so accepting any of those 4 options without renegotiating them in line with the original agreement, would be huge capitulation. I've no idea what will happen next but I certainly hope it's not a massive capitulation. And no point worrying what TUI will do.

Treppen

deiseindublin wrote: »

TUI signed up to the same agreement as ASTI all those years ago so shouldn't be facilitating SLARs that are entirely outside school timetabled hours.

They never did intend to enforce the circular though. On the very first mention on SLARs in TUI News they gave an example of a school with a half day on a Wednesday timetabling it there.

Actually the agreement explicitly states "during tuition time" and NOT 'during school time'.

This is because the ASTI take the view that school time is when the students are present whereas TUI take the view that school time is any time management decree that teachers be present.

Hence why ASTI ensured the term "tuition time" appears in the agreement. But TUI didn't follow the agreement. This has given the dept. carte blanche to tear up the agreement.