Civil service monitoring time away from desk

Collie D

salonfire wrote: »

I get that, but to take time off, productivity is not considered only hours and minutes.

Well done that manager, if people are using time to take additional days off, he has every right to see how much effort is going into that time.

It would not be acceptable in other work places, but other work places do not give flexi days off.

I get flexi days and I don’t get time docked for leaving my desk - sure, chunks of my day are spent away from it anyway.

If I thought my toilet breaks or time getting a drink of water was being recorded you can bet I’ll be asking questions.

I’m neither public service or in a union.

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

This is happening because someone is taking the piss. Happened at my college. The rules were easy going until someone started to abuse them. Eight smoke breaks, four tea breaks and always on the phone with her sisters.

So now no one gets anything

Very possibly, but instead of engaging with the problem and the person directly and individually... everyone now suffers. It’s the ultimate lazy management ...

If I am a manager and an individual has a habit of turning up late..or ripping the piss with breaks... I’ll invite them for a meeting, ask why they are turning up late. Point out the recorded instances. Reminding them it’s their responsibility to ensure that they are on time for each shift but if there is some unavoidable issue on the way such as a crash they need to call me...if no improvement in their timekeeping is happening there will be formal disciplinary action.

What I’m not going to do is wait for a team meeting and come out with... “ it’s been observed that several members of this team are not turning up for their shifts on time”...

That’s cowardly and lazy..

antimatterx

Where I work no one cares how many tea breaks/smoke breaks you take if you're late/early. It's up to you to get your assigned work done, once you do, you can do what you want.

salonfire

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The tea break, or 15 minute paid break, is required under the Organisation of Working Time Act.

That's not correct.

Only after 4.5 hours is a break required, and that's lunch.

There is no basis for the morning break.
Probably far longer than 15 mins taken as well that adds up nicely towards a day's flexitime.

Multiply this piss taking across the civil service and it's costing a fortune.

the14thwarrior

go to union and HR.
this is not standard.
in my work place (public job) the old manager started to make everyone account for every 15 min. of their work day. now we have fancy stats to calucalate prodactivity. but the old way continues to exist, and i hate it. at the time i accepted it as it was put forward as a "trial". I know its not the same as yours but the result is....
poor positive management (you'll find the civil service will have a policy around stress and people management)
negative management
not allowing people to do their job with their own skills and in their own manner (as long as people do their job)
increased stress and anxiety (i have a bowel disorder......)
I work faster than my colleagues so my productivity is not an issue
i need to stretch my legs, back....

now, in the current times, i actually have a physical problem, offered disability and choose not to take it.. modifications easy to put in........ but the latest new manager has a bit of problem with it..... so i laid down the rules early enough and had to fight but managed to keep unions out of it.

trust me nip this in the bud before the manager gets it into his head that this is a good thing.

he started something similar and i put my foot down
it makes his job easier.......
he needs to manage the issue, not tar everyone with the same brush.
he gets paid to manage the bad workers

the14thwarrior

salonfire wrote: »

That's not correct.

Only after 4.5 hours is a break required, and that's lunch.

There is no basis for the morning break.
Probably far longer than 15 mins taken as well that adds up nicely towards a day's flexitime.

Multiply this piss taking across the civil service and it's costing a fortune.

such a stupid statement if you think having a tea break for 15 minute across a full working day is "taking the piss". and then say its costing the country a fortune. that people should stop working and sit and chat and drink tea/coffee/juice, have a scone, bit of fruit, chocolate, and relax. and go back to work. in the long run it gives people a bit of a rest, reduce stress, etc. gas.

I'd love to shadow you in your work and see you working non stop for 8 hours with just a half hour break. bet it doesn't happen.

AulWan

salonfire wrote: »

That's not correct.

Only after 4.5 hours is a break required, and that's lunch.

There is no basis for the morning break.
Probably far longer than 15 mins taken as well that adds up nicely towards a day's flexitime.

Multiply this piss taking across the civil service and it's costing a fortune.

OMFG would you seriously get a life.

KaneToad

the14thwarrior wrote: »

such a stupid statement if you think having a tea break for 15 minute across a full working day is "taking the piss". and then say its costing the country a fortune. that people should stop working and sit and chat and drink tea/coffee/juice, have a scone, bit of fruit, chocolate, and relax. and go back to work. in the long run it gives people a bit of a rest, reduce stress, etc. gas.

I'd love to shadow you in your work and see you working non stop for 8 hours with just a half hour break. bet it doesn't happen.

But...but...but...My taxes pay your salary!!

Samuel T. Cogley

salonfire wrote: »

That's not correct.

Only after 4.5 hours is a break required, and that's lunch.

There is no basis for the morning break.
Probably far longer than 15 mins taken as well that adds up nicely towards a day's flexitime.

Multiply this piss taking across the civil service and it's costing a fortune.

That's not correct. The 15 minute paid break is required as the Civil service lunch break is unpaid.

silent_spark

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That's not correct. The 15 minute paid break is required as the Civil service lunch break is unpaid.

It doesn’t make a difference whether the lunch break is paid or not. While it might be a civil service policy to offer a paid morning break, it’s nothing to do with the working time directive - there’s no requirement to pay for employee rest breaks.

the14thwarrior

KaneToad wrote: »

But...but...but...My taxes pay your salary!!

your taxes pay my salary.
OMFG.

i hope I don't choke on my tea break tomorrow morning.
I'll try not to feel guilty!!!!

pablo128

silent_spark wrote: »

It doesn’t make a difference whether the lunch break is paid or not. While it might be a civil service policy to offer a paid morning break, it’s nothing to do with the working time directive - there’s no requirement to pay for employee rest breaks.

I'm in the private sector. 15 minute break morning and afternoon is paid for. 1 hour lunch break is unpaid.

And it's written in our contracts.

angel eyes 2012

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That's not correct. The 15 minute paid break is required as the Civil service lunch break is unpaid.

Realistically, the tea break is 30 minutes and I've seen it stretched to 45 minutes by some.

salonfire

pablo128 wrote: »

I'm in the private sector. 15 minute break morning and afternoon is paid for. 1 hour lunch break is unpaid.

And it's written in our contracts.

You are not using it to count towards another day off though.

Samuel T. Cogley

pablo128 wrote: »

I'm in the private sector. 15 minute break morning and afternoon is paid for. 1 hour lunch break is unpaid.

And it's written in our contracts.

In fairness he's correct it's not a requirement, although I've never worked anywhere it wasn't paid and separate to the lunch break and that's from years in retail and call centres.

salonfire

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Realistically, the tea break is 30 minutes and I've seen it stretched to 45 minutes by some.

Of course it does. No-one boils a kettle, makes tea, sit and chat, washes up a bit and return to their desk all within 15 mins.

pablo128

salonfire wrote: »

Of course it does. No-one boils a kettle, makes tea, sit and chat, washes up a bit and return to their desk all within 15 mins.

A burko and a dishwasher takes care of that. And yes I can manage all of the above plus a cigarette and be back on the floor in 15 minutes.

salonfire

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

In fairness he's correct it's not a requirement, although I've never worked anywhere it wasn't paid and separate to the lunch break and that's from years in retail and call centres.

Yes, you're right.

Did it count up towards get another day off in your years in retail and call centres? Of course, it didn't.

Chaos Black

If it helps ease the chip off of that shoulder - the CS is recruiting constantly at the moment. As a post 2013 entrant you can get the tea break and maybe flexitime.

You probably would get paid more in a equivalent private sector job if you’re any use though so there is that..

shesty

I am constantly away from my desk at work....the nature of our company and my job requires a lot of interaction between departments in different areas of the building, I would regularly be dropping to other desks to discuss work and vice versa.I've worked in a few public sector offices though, and this is micromanagement to a ridiculous degree.Somebody is ridiculously wasting time and money if they are actually monitoring staff movements to this degree.

Samuel T. Cogley

salonfire wrote: »

Yes, you're right.

Did it count up towards get another day off in your years in retail and call centres? Of course, it didn't.

I frequently got TOIL in retail and overtime in the call centre. I don't get OT in the civil service. You seem to have a read hardon for Flexi - there are many private sector companies that offer flexi.

angel eyes 2012

Flexi-time is generally only given to staff of HEO grade and below. Anyone appointed at AP level or above cannot avail of it. Effectively, any time worked above the basic hours of 7.24 is on your own time.

Addle

I work unpaid overtime every week in the civil service.
Used to bring tea back to my desk. Was told to stop for health and safety reasons so now I go for a 15 min walk around the grounds as I can’t bear to listen to the sh!te talk in the canteen.
No one has ever commented on time spent at my desk to me, but I do know that there’s a record kept of the amount of work I do and time I spend using one specific programme (though my job involves using more than one).
So I guess management could work out how long I’m away from my PC if they wanted.

Baoithin66

There is an ongoing dispute between Forsa and Roscommon County Council around this very issue. Basically there seems to have been such a high level of abusing the flexi system that it was effectively withdrawn.A combination of lazy management not tackling the people abusing the system and the union not spelling it out that it is not acceptable and would not be supported by the union if staff were found to be in the wrong.
Unfortunately some people are very quick to point out every extra minute they feel they have worked but see no problem with multiple tea breaks or spending time going around chatting. As a manager I had to threaten to withdraw flexi from staff who thought it was their right to take 45 min tea breaks and half hour lunch but spending an extra half hour eating at their desk. I moved sections and as soon as I did they were back at it!! Very demoralising for the vast majority of dedicated staff who have to carry them.

AulWan

Can I just point out that Roscommon County Council is not part of the Civil Service.

Addle

I don’t think anyone outside of the staff in Ros co co have any sympathy for them.
From the outside, it looks like they were getting away with murder for a long time and can’t hack it now that there’s a manager who is managing them.
I’m from County Roscommon.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies everyone,

To clarify I really don't think anyone is taking the p!ss. We are sent in groups to tea break (don't want it get into the rights and wrongs of this - it's standard in all civil servant jobs) and so need to be done within the 15mins.

I don't think it's a flexi-time issue either. The office is extremely busy with staff often having to stay until 7 to get work done. It's very rare that anyone takes any longer than 30 minutes for their break - there's just too much to be done.

I presume if flexi time was to be taken away we'd need to be paid for all the overtime we do. We regularly need to work in other offices/departments so obviously this time isn't monitored but when we are in our own office, it's very much desk based, monotonous work. I suppose I use my phonecall as a bit of a 'movement break' to beat the 3pm slump.

I think I'll give the Union a call tomorrow. I've worked in several other departments in the CS and never have I felt as micro managed as I do currently.

whatlliwear

civvyboots wrote: »

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone else works under these conditions or if I have any grounds to contact the union?

I work in quite a busy civil service office. Today during a staff meeting we were told that anytime away from our desks is being monitored and recorded on a spreadsheet (this has been going on without us knowing) and that we can access our own spreadsheets (I presume we can only see our own times). It was also said that we cannot take personal calls and if we wish to make one we must log out (we work flexi-time). So basically it is noted each time we leave our desks and the duration we are gone for.

This includes time spent in the bathroom, getting a drink of water, just taking a brief walk to stretch legs, our morning tea break etc. I just don't feel comfortable knowing that I'm being timed each time I sit on the toilet. I can't see how this improves productivity in anyway, if anything it makes us all less motivated and morale is at an all time low. Personally, I make a quick call (less than 3 minutes) to my childminder each day and I feel if anything knowing that my children are happy and well makes me more content at work, rather than worrying about them all day.

I suppose i just wanted to see if this happens in any other civil service offices around the country or if it is something that we can challenge.

I have worked in a few departments. This would be common enough in call centre environments in the CS alright.

gmisk

I have been in the civil service a long time....this is not normal behaviour

saabsaab

gmisk wrote: »

I have been in the civil service a long time....this is not normal behaviour

This sounds weird, I know that things have got more strict recently but this sounds unworkable i.e. they can't carry this out accurately. Could you with some others approach their superior. I doubt they would condone this, if they do then it's time to go to the union.
Sometimes going to the union first gets managment to circle the wagons.